Interesting Question?
 

What is the difference between the Aaron Brooks that stepped in for an injured Jeff Balke and the Aaron Brooks of today? What do we need to do to reincarnate the Aaron Brooks that played like there was no tomorrow?

Interesting Question?
 

Oh, a riddle. Woo Hoo.
I\'ll guess the difference is about $30 million.

[Edited on 5/11/2003 by progress]

Interesting Question?
 

I will go with , veteran backup leadership.

Same reason the Saints brought in Brian Cox and Jake Reed too play .

Interesting Question?
 

Instinct vs. Intellect

Aaron Brook was (and still is) a great QB when he is reacting . He an average and very inconsistent QB when he is asked to think through his position. In that first year wherin AB replaced JB, we really had nothing to lose. We were beat up by injuries on an offense that was balky at best. Defenses had learned to play against us with an non-mobile QB, and they were having success. JB gets hurt and the brand new backup is asked to step in. He is not familiar with the system (heck, he only had six months to learn it with no practical experience in it). The OC knows this. He simplifies the system and lets AB react. A new sensation is born as AB has loads of athletic ability and a great instinct to get out of trouble.

In the following years, he has been asked to be the offensive field general. He is asked to think his way through things and try to predict what the defense will do. Based on this, he is supposed to adjust the plays and change his actions based on a system. These things do not play to his strengths, but they are required of a great QB. AB has always had trouble with this. I suspect he always will.

The best demonstration of this is during two minute drills when we are behind. Ever wonder why the Saints seem to be able to score late when we are behind, but not consistently through the game? In my opinion, this is it.

AB is still a great instinctive QB and when he is allowed to react rather than to try and think is way through things, he is the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Unfortunately, those situations present themselves when we are desperate and we are desperate when we have nothing to lose. When we get a lead, we are no longer desperate and we allow teams back in games because the offense stalls and the defense has to carry us.

Of course, this is just an opinion and many other factors play into it. Still, I believe this to be true about Aaron Brooks.

Interesting Question?
 

Nail, meet hammer.

You got, JT. Allow me to elaborate on another point. I think Aaron is trying to hard (at the behest of coaches) to be a \'pocket qb.\' Did you notice how good he looked last week when, noticing everyone was covered, he RAN THE FRIGGIN FOOTBALL?!? I\'m not saying I want him to run the ball every down or even every possession, but I would like for opposing defenses to have to respect his ability to run.

Interesting Question?
 

AB is a great scrabbling QB, and he is able to get the job done when he is under pressure. He is however NOT a pocket passer. I don’t know why he or anyone else thinks that he should be. AB has some very redeeming qualities, and some very poor ones. He is not the leader that the team needs, but he also doesn’t need to be. Deuce and Horn (or whoever else) can fill that role. He has great movement and I like seeing him use his feet, rather than sit in the pocket and do nothing. I still don’t understand why they didn’t bring in a QB in the off season to mentor him to what his natural talents are.

Interesting Question?
 

Do any of you think that you are judging Aaron Brooks differently than you do other QB\'s in the league? I\'m just wondering why some of you think he\'s not good as a pocket passer. All of these problems you say he has is not unique to Aaron. Last year some of you wanted to throw up stats and point out his completion percentage wasn\'t high enough. Yet, Brooks\' supporters bring up stats this year and they don\'t count.

Let\'s look at Brooks\' stats --

Aaron Brooks NO 9 277 30.8 164 59.2 1837 204.1 69 13 6 15 87 85.7

Brooks has been a pocket passer this year and his completion percentage is good. His TD to INT ratio is good. How can this be when you say he isn\'t a good pocket passer? His receivers surely can\'t get the credit this year? Could it be that some of you are judging him differently than other QB\'s?

What about these QB\'s??

Matt Hasselbeck SEA 8 248 31.0 145 58.5 1774 221.8 66 12 7 23 121 85.0
Tom Brady NE 9 289 32.1 173 59.9 2071 230.1 82 11 8 17 133 83.0
Tim Couch CLE 5 122 24.4 79 64.8 757 151.4 71 4 4 9 61 79.2
Jake Delhomme CAR 8 212 26.5 121 57.1 1394 174.2 67 8 6 11 65 77.8
Drew Bledsoe BUF 8 256 32.0 158 61.7 1748 218.5 54 6 8 23 181 76.8
Kerry Collins NYG 8 333 41.6 194 58.3 2185 273.1 77 11 10 13 69 76.5
David Carr HOU 7 204 29.1 122 59.8 1483 211.9 78 6 8 11 63 75.7
Rich Gannon OAK 7 225 32.1 125 55.6 1274 182.0 46 6 4 17 90 73.5

If competion percentage and TD to INT ratio don\'t count. Then what does? Surely you can\'t say wins and losses? Since this is a team game. Aaron has made mistakes to be sure, but what about all the other QB\'s that play?

Anwser me this. What about Matt Hasselbeck? How would you compare his play to Brooks this year?

Interesting Question?
 

I never said that Aaron is not doing a good job this year.

Offensive scoring is down this year, and receivers are dropping balls. If Aaron has the ability to run when receivers are covered downfield, shouldn\'t he? During his first days as our qb, he gave headaches to opposing defenses because they had to respect his ability to scramble. This year, I notice him standing in the pocket too long waiting for receivers to break out of coverage.

Maybe the coaches are to blame. Believe me, I\'m not trying to put it all on Aaron, but you have to admit that the offensive is less productive this year.

Interesting Question?
 

whowatches -- My arguement has nothing to do with Aaron running the ball. I want to see more of that myself. My question is to those that are saying Brooks isn\'t a good pocket passer. What is this based on? And, if you apply those same standards to the other QB\'s that I have listed, what does that say about them?

Interesting Question?
 

I think if people are being fair (and honest) with themselves they\'ll admit Brooks is better when he\'s freelancing as opposed to sitting in the pocket. I would agree with that statement. I was against the Saints trying to \"Force\" Aaron to sit in the pocket causing his instincts to work against him. Brooks is, in my opinion, best when he\'s rolling out of the pocket. I don\'t think Brooks wants to have the \"scrambler\" lable, and I don\'t blame him for that, but I don\'t think that\'s why he hasn\'t run as much as he did when he took over for Blake. I think he\'s being instructed to stay in the pocket and I think that hurts his game. I also think that slowly the Saints coaching staff is beginning to realize that Aaron\'s real talent comes when he\'s allowed some freedom after the snap. In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, \"that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\"

Interesting Question?
 

Again, I\'m not saying Brooks should not run more. I want to see that too. My question is about his ability and improvement as a pocket passer. He looks like he is improving just fine to me. You can say he isn\'t a good pocket passer, but based on what? And if you apply those same standards to the other QB\'s that I listed, what does that say about them? I\'m not saying he\'s in the same league with Peyton Manning as a pocket passer becuase he is NOT !! However, I don\'t think he\'s gettig enough credit for improving as a pocket passer. You can\'t just put up stats like Brooks this year and be as bad as some are suggesting. And yes...............THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

Interesting Question?
 

What you need to remember is that Brooks is N-E-V-E-R going to be acknowledged properly on this board. Certain members just don\'t like him man. Take the posts from those people for what they\'re worth, and even call \'em out on it if you wanna, but forget trying to force them to judge or compare Aaron Brooks favorably...isn\'t gonna happen. Too many old school folks in here still practicing Pea Patch politics. AB\'s initials aren\'t JD and they never will be. Do like Brooks and hold your head up high above the rediculous posts in here (in the same way Aaron has handled the ignorant fan reaction in the Dome) and let those with short-sighted vision go there on little way. They\'re wrong and deep down they know they\'re not being fair...doesn\'t matter to \'em tho, cause they think JD was treated the most unfair, so they justify it that way. See past it and then they won\'t get to you quite so much.

Interesting Question?
 

I know there are some members on here that won\'t judge him fairly, but the members in this thread, to the best of my knowledge, aren\'t in that catorgory. So, I thought we might get some legit responses. I\'ll admit that Aaron has a ways to go but I think he is making progress.

Interesting Question?
 

There is no question in my mind that AB is making progress towards becoming a better pocket-passer. I just question whether it is necessary. I sort of see this as a coaching failure. I understand the coach\'s desire to eliminate some of his bad habits from years back (i.e. throwing off his back foot, trying to force throws into coverage, etc.) However, I think they could have worked on those bad habit and still played to Brooks\' strengths. I mean, the guy is extremely difficult to contain and stop when he is allowed to improvise. In the pocket, he just can\'t seem to match the accuracy he seems to have on the run. No one can argue that his accuracy has been a problem this year, but he seems cured when he gets flushed and is allowed to play-it-by-ear.

Let\'s look at Michael Vick for a minute. Everyone crows about Michael Vick because of his performance last year. There was a lot of comparison between the cousins and AB came out on the short end of it. Do I think Vick is THAT much better than Brooks? No, I don\'t. I do believe that AB has been somewhat handcuffed by the offensive image the coaches seem to want to pound him into. It\'s going to be really tragic that AB will likely not go down in history with the credit he rightly deserves because he is not allowed to play his game.

Now, before everyone thinks I have lost it totally let me say one thing. I am not sure we can improvise effectively this year and that may be why the coaches are making the choices they are. For whatever reason, our receiving corps seems to be having trouble making the right decisions when a play goes south. The only ones who seems to be coming back to the QB and working to get themselves open are Horn and perhaps Conwell. I am not surprised that they are such prevalent targets. They both have a ton of experience and truly know how to play their positions. Why isn\'t Pathon? If he were, you can bet he would have more catches this year. Stallworth is too young and immature and Lewis too small. Boo and Rasby don\'t get enough playing time so I really cannot assess them.

Bottom line: I think AB is great QB when he plays HIS game. I think he is so much less when forced into our current system. Just my two cents.

Interesting Question?
 

Jude -- Good post. I agree that they need to play to Aaron\'s strengths more. I don\'t understand it at all. Maybe since every game is a must for the Saints the rest of the year, they will use Aaron more wisely.

Interesting Question?
 

OH MY GOD. Seriously?!?!?!?! I think I need to go dig up old posts. A while back, when I was talking about AB\'s numbers from 2002, I stated that his completion percentage, QB rating, and other RATIOS didn\'t stack up to other QBs in the league. Saintfan and Billy bashed me up and down this board talking about how I had a vendetta. How obviously all that matter was that Brooks threw for the 5th most yards and TDs. Billy went so far as to say that Brooks was responsible for the team scoring 30 points a game and the wins and losses. I think Saintfan said something along the lines of \"If you\'re trying to compare TD to attempt ratios on grass on days above 72 degrees and cloudy you may just have an agenda.\"

NOW, when his TDs and yards are down, Billy is looking at completion percentage and other ratios. Are you F-ing kidding me?!?!? Billy, you realize that this is a COMPLETE REVERSAL of your previous comments from the end of last season, right?

Billy, you are getting called out on this one. I\'ll give you one chance to say that this is a complete reversal from last season, then I\'m going to dig up old quotes.

Interesting Question?
 

WhoDat -- I said back then and I still say do this day that TOUCH DOWN PASSES are more important than completion percentage.

Down? He\'s on pace to put up about the same numbers this year. What are you talking about down? My point was that he is improving as a pocket passer. Now show me where I\'m wrong. Show me where he hasn\'t improved??

Passing Yards
Player Team Yds Att Cmp TDs Ints Long Rating
Kerry Collins NYG 2185 333 194 11 10 77 76.5
Peyton Manning IND 2128 270 184 16 6 79 102.2
Marc Bulger STL 2086 259 167 12 9 48 90.3
Tom Brady NE 2071 289 173 11 8 82 83.0
Brad Johnson TB 2068 296 186 16 8 75 90.3
Steve McNair TEN 1978 232 151 13 3 50 105.1
Jon Kitna CIN 1882 272 165 12 8 82 83.9
Tommy Maddox PIT 1871 274 164 8 11 50 73.4
Aaron Brooks NO 1837 277 164 13 6 69 85.7


Aaron Brooks 1837 277 164 13 6 69 85.7 ---- 2003
Aaron Brooks 528 283 3572 53.6 6.8 27 5.1 15 2.8 64 36/236 80.1 ---- 2002


[Edited on 6/11/2003 by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs-]

Interesting Question?
 

It is interesting to see where a thread takes you and this one is no exception. But the question on the floor is what is different and what needs to be done to revive the old AB to what endeared us to him originally and the coaches to keep him instead of JB. I agree with the consensus regarding that he is an instinct QB more so than a pocket QB. I can only hope that this the strength that AB has that the coaches will allow to develop.

Interesting Question?
 

All I\'m saying Billy, is that you and Saintfan argued until you were blue in the face that ratios were worthless, and just a tool I was using to twist the numbers to show that Brooks was a bad QB. So if those things are important, then Brooks\' numbers like completion percentage, QB rating, and yards per attempt, all of which put him in the bottom ten QBs in the league were valid. Great. So Brooks was a mediocre QB last season. Glad we got that straightened out. On to the playoffs this season.

Interesting Question?
 

Is that for me? With all due respect DlbBogey, I didn\'t take this thread anywhere, other than addressing what some other members posted in reply to your question. You seem to want to pile on at a time when my membership is in question on this board. I\'ve read a couple of other things that you\'ve posted regarding me and it is pretty clear to me that you have a problem with me. I\'m simply trying to have a debate on a subject and just because everyone doesn\'t follow your orginal question, doesn\'t mean this debate is without merit. Why are you worried about where I take a thread anyway? Have I offended you or anyone else?

Interesting Question?
 

I understand WhoDat. I admit I reached last year when debating Aaron Brooks. I think we all did.

Interesting Question?
 

OK, if there was any doubt whether PFK is really Billy or not, the doubt is gone now. Here we have a perfect example of how he got himself into trouble the first time: by taking things personally instead of keeping to the subject. Let\'s all try to express our opinions without getting defensive and arguing like a bunch of girls.

With that said, on to the subject at hand. Wasn\'t it Mark Twain who said there are three kinds of untruths: lies, damn lies, and statistics? You could probably make any claim you want, and find some statistics that back it up. The point is we all agree that AB\'s performance has not generally been as good as we think it should be given his obvious athletic ability. There is no way that any numbers are going to explain why.

For what it\'s worth, I agree with Whowatches that Jude hit the nail on the head with his assessment. It\'s that kind of insight that makes me want to read this board. Thanks, Jude!

Interesting Question?
 

You know rich006. You are right. I should not have responded to DblBogey. But, you don\'t see me going behind his posts and making little snide comments about what he is posting. This is the 3rd time he has done that. I wasn\'t even taking to him.

Interesting Question?
 

This place is fun again!

Could you please sing Darling Nikki?

Interesting Question?
 

lol.....I could do without the excitement myself. It seems like I can stick to talking nothing but football and there are going to be those that have to throw their little comments in. dblbogey get\'s his little shots in here and there. I\'m just going to have to ignore him. Sorry, but I don\'t know \"darling nikki.\"

Interesting Question?
 

Hey Rook, you wanna join the Who-Tang Clan? I want you and Saintfan to be the first to join. Oh, don\'t get me wrong, the Smittys, Paks, JoeSams, BnBs, Lumm0xes, and even a lot of the news guys are all good guys, and they all know their football. The problem is, they aren\'t as clearly insane as you and Saintfan are. ;) Where\'s the fun in that. How boring was it during your short stint in purgatory? I had no one to debate with... and contrary to popular belief, I am not posting just to see myself type. If there\'s not somebody around to tell me I\'m a dern fool, then I\'m just not enjoying myself. So PFK, you should do me the honor of being the first official member of the Who-Tang Clan, other than myself of course. Whaddya say?

Interesting Question?
 

PFK what I posted was in no way inteded for you and I am sorry that took it that way. If I was wanting you to do something to jepordize your regained membership I would not have ante-upped my vote of confidence to bring you back, which did have some digs in it I must admit, but there was little doubt as to who I was talking about. But my above quote was not written with you in mind, at all. If I have a dig for you, you will know it because I will call you out by name as I have before. I was merely interested in seeing more debate which more closely followed my question in search of the solution of the Brooks dillema. You know they say a sign of paranoia is visions of granduer, but sorry to say PFK, it was not you that prompted my post. Just remember one thing, if I have a problem with you or your posts I will be man enough to call you out by name. Again I apologize if I offended you, but I will not accept resposibility for your paranoia. I will promise you that from this point forward, so there is no misconception, I will address you personally if I have a problem with you or something you have posted ~ I extend my hand in friendship and fellowship to you to say my post was not directed, in any fashion, as a slam, dig or anyway to you or your posts and to welcome you and your thoughtful insight back to the board. Let\'s get on with discussing our favorite subject the Saints and the playoffs no matter how impossible or improbable that may seem. By the grace of God we can do it you just have to believe.

Interesting Question?
 

PFK what I posted was in no way inteded for you and I am sorry that took it that way. If I was wanting to do something to jepordize your regained membership I would not have ante-upped my vote of confidence to bring you back, which did have some digs in it I must admit, but there was little doubt as to who I was talking about. But my above quote was not written with you in mind, at all. If I have a dig for you, you will know it because I will call you out by name as I have before. I was merely interested in seeing more debate which more closely followed my question in search of the solution of the Brooks dillema. You know they say a sign of paranoia is visions of granduer, but sorry to say PFK, it was not you that prompted my post. Just remember one thing, if I have a problem with you or your posts I will be man enough to call you out by name. Again I apologize if I offended you, but I will not accept resposibility for your paranoia. I will promise you that from this point forward, so there is no misconception, I will address you personally if I have a problem with you or something you have posted ~ I extend my hand in friendship and fellowship to you to say my post was not directed, in any fashion, as a slam, dig or anyway to you or your posts and to welcome you and your thoughtful insight back to the board. Let\'s get on with discussing our favorite subject the Saints and the playoffs no matter how impossible or improbable that may seem. By the grace of God we can do it you just have to believe.

[Edited on 6/11/2003 by DblBogey]

Interesting Question?
 

DblBogey --

Yeah you are right. In your other post there clearly were some \"digs.\" It just seemed to me that you were talking to me. If you say that\'s not the case then I\'ll take your word for it and apolojize. Let\'s just leave it at that and you won\'t have to worry about me at all.

Interesting Question?
 

WhoDat -- I can\'t be sippin\' on the tang. I must say though, that the tang seems to be helping you out some. You don\'t bash Brooks nearly as much. The tang has made you much more Brooks friendly. Pretty soon you\'ll be tellin\' us how glad you are that we didn\'t keep Delhomme around...lol

Interesting Question?
 

Whodat, where did you say you wanted to see Brooks improve his numbers? Which statistical categories were those? Would you kindly go back and research that post and asses Brooks\' numbers (the ones you deem important) then versus now? Do that for me pa-lease.

I, sir, have NEVER attempted to prove Aaron\'s worth statistically. True, I have argued with you about it \"up and down this board\" and I\'ll continue to do so because my position has not and will not change. Statistics can prove whatever a person wants \'em to prove pending the spin, and I sir, am not attempting to be a spin doctor. I leave that to Satintz08...he is the professional spin doctor, however you\'re not far behind.

FYI Brooks\' numbers would be even better if (a) our defense could\'ve stopped anybody earlier in the year and (b) if we had more than one receiver that knew how to get open and (c) if we had ANYbody on the roster who could catch and (d) the coaches would game plan to his strengths...etc, etc, etc. As always, I\'m not givin\' Brooks a free pass. He\'s thrown some head scratchers a time or three (tell me which QB in the NFL hasn\'t), but all in all HIS play has been SOLID while the rest of the TEAM\'S play needs to be questioned.

Interesting Question?
 

Here\'s for you Prince:

The Aaron Brooks we see today is more mature on various levels than he was the year he stepped in for Jeff Blake. He now has a marquee role on this team. He has been essentially guaranteed by this coaching staff that he has job security. When Blake got hurt he saw an opportunity to earn the big pay cheque. Now he has the big pay cheque. I\'m not trying to insinuate that any of his current motivation regarding performance is financially driven, but perhaps his early muse was.
Early in his career he also lacked as much practical knowledge of the position in terms of NFL style and caliber of play. He was forced to play and react more heavily on inherint instincts rather than coached and acquired knowledge. My opinion is he has a tendency to overthink situations rather than just go with his gut. His unpredicability was a advantage he possessed early on. Defences also knew nothing about him at that time. They didn\'t expect the escapability, the huge darts he can throw vertically. They defended dump off routes, expecting a rookie to use the high percentage check downs as a safety net, when Brooks just intended to rocket the ball in a clear passing lane. And lastly, his pocket presence was more noticable as a rookie than today. It\'s hard to say why. Perhaps he was so nervous at that time the mere presence of a defender within his reach set him in motion and instincts took him to open field. Today, maybe he\'s more accustomed to looking a reciever open under a collapsing pocket that he forgets just how long he\'s had the ball.

To bring him back to this type of play, perhaps he does need to understand that tommorrow is promised to no one. That he does not have carte blanche job security. Maybe the team needs to publicly declare a different team member the clear cut leader of this team, on field and off, and take the limelight off of him. The leagues tendency is for the QB to be the team leader but there are a variety of cases where that is not the case. Baltimore for example. Ray Lewis is the unquestioned focal point of that team. Alot of expectation is removed from the QB there because of that. It is one aspect the QB doesn\'t have to concentrate on excelling at. Maybe Brooks needs to have this requirement of the job removed to focus more on growing as a QB than as a leadership. Maybe all of this leader talk and leadership course, etc, are a distraction. I can think of many employees in various jobs that suddenly excelled at their duties when the part of the job they hated, and that frustrated them, was removed from the tasks.


That\'s about all I can add here.

Interesting Question?
 

Back to the original question about AB and why I think that he performed better in his early years. As I stated earlier, he was working of instinct then, whereas now he is thinking too much. I preferred him the old way when he got things done. I do agree with Billy in the fact that he has improved as a pocket passer, however that is not his forte, and if it isn’t, then why are they trying to make him into something he isn’t. I just don’t understand that logic. In answer to Billy’s question of “am I saying that AB isn’t a good pocket passer�. Well, no. I’m not saying that, I am saying that he should work with his talents and not try to force things. As for the comparison to other QB’s and do I apply the same standards. Probably not, however I don’t have the love for their team or scrutinize them as much. However I am happy to see that he has rediscovered his legs and is trying to run a bit more now.

Interesting Question?
 

It\'s always interesting to see how eveyone views Aaron Brooks. I do agree that he plays better when he plays instinctive. I also agree that Brooks needs to run the ball more. When Brooks took over for Jeff Blake, he basically just improvised and made things happen. That was successful then, but I don\'t think you want to keep running an undisciplined offense like that.

Right now Brooks is in the same situation that most young QB\'s are in. He is learning to make better decisions and cut down on the mistakes. When compared to other pocket passers, with the same experience, he seems to be holding his own. That is if you judge him fairly against some other QB\'s. There are not too many QB\'s in the history of the NFL that are fully developed in their 3rd year as a starter. I think the tag that Aaron Brooks is never going to be a great pocket passer is way too premature. I\'m not saying he will, but just that it\'s too early to say.

I think Brooks needs to continue to develop his skills as a pocket passer, but when things break down, I think he needs to place it upon himself to use his atletic ability to make plays. Hey, at least Brooks possess those skills. It\'s a very nice asset to have, rather than having a QB that doesn\'t have that option.



[Edited on 6/11/2003 by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs-]

Interesting Question?
 

I agree that he may have to potental to be a good pocket passer, I just don\'t like it when I see him trying to hard to be a pocket passer and acting like his feet are in cement. IF he can develop these talents (which he should be able too) then he will be a stand out QB. I am enjoying watching his development, and I am willing to still give him a chance to improve.

Interesting Question?
 

NEVER! ;)

Interesting Question?
 

In my humble opinion Jake Delhomme sucks pond water!

;)

Interesting Question?
 

Now I know that ain\'t right saintfan. I got a 2 acre square pond and have never seen him down there drinking. ;)

Interesting Question?
 

It could be worse. He could be Aaron Crooks.

Interesting Question?
 

Odd... I saw O8 hangin\' around a pond last week while I was fishin\'.... very interesting.

Don\'t need no Blue\'s Clues to figure that one out!