Enough is enough
 

Four years playing. Three years as starter. Rookie mistakes.

Stop defending Brooks. He does not play the game well. He is not smart in his decisions. All the athleticism in the world will not help when you continue to do stupid things. The Saints' fans booing him are absolutely correct, and they should not be behind a QB who is single-handedly throwing away any chance we have at the playoffs.

No go ahead all you posters who think Brooks is great. Explain the two Ints he's already thrown in the first half. Explain the 14 points he is put us in the hole. Tell me how this is OK and how it is just part of some master plan. Let's hear all about how a QB can have a "bad day".

Something I forgot: Kittner, even though EVERYONE acknowleges that he is a scrub, is playing better ball and AB. I am sick and tired of our first string QB looking like some half-wit loser. Enough is enough. Time to look for a QB who can do something with this team.


[Edited on 16/11/2003 by JudeThaddeus]

Enough is enough
 

We could trade Brooks for Purdue\'s Ben Jones. Despite the difference in \"skill\" positions, we would not see any drop of performance!!!!!!!!

:casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :mad: :mad2:

Enough is enough
 

Yep, he\'s having a bad day. Now, if Brook\'s comes back and wins the game, maybe you\'ll learn that it happens. Or, you can come here scream for the QB\'s head at the half of every bad game he has.

Enough is enough
 

Hey BillyC. You could be right (humor). But are you sure that AB has played as well as any other above-mediocre QB so far for the SEASON.

Sure I\'m really mad at this game, but not for the first time I am soooooooooooooooooo disappointed in our alleged gr8 offence. I sometimes see AB has loadsatime to use that ball, but still the results are not generally above average. I also see the most incredulous plays of all time by AB. The fumble against the Horse, The double-entendre (whoops I meant doule-interception) today.

(As I am sure you are thinking) I am short-sighted, blind to other deficiencies, biased (actually I\'m not biased for or against AB I am just waiting for Saints to be consistently on or above average on Offence, defence and Special teams); Please point out the equivalent errors by QBs of other PROFESSIONAL football team.

Oh sorry. Let me lighten up.

Come on Saints. Three scores and we are back! GEAUX GEAUX GEAUX :D :D

Happy now!

Enough is enough
 

so ur telling us to scream every week of the season? what about the 2nd halves of the games? can we scream then too?

Enough is enough
 

Right now all of you can congradulate Aaron Brooks and the Saints for the BIG win.

Oh, and if you want you can call for Deuce to get traded, because it makes about as much sense as what y\'all are saying about Brooks.

Short sighted fans --

Jude -- You should really refrain from posting anything until the game is over. It would make you look much smarter -- ;)

[Edited on 16/11/2003 by BillyC]

Enough is enough
 

Billy C

I still stand by what I said. Really I smile a little when AB pulls it out (hoping he won\'t mess up next time).

So I guess AB (not Desmond Howard, etc) that led the team to victory. OK :cool:

Enough is enough
 

Ugly, ugly, ugly win.

Sure, I\'ll take it, but no one should be pattin Brooks on the back. He is the reason that the game was a struggle to begin with. He had time most of the game and made very little happen.

Deuce gives the team consistency. The comparison between fans\' feelings for him and for Brooks doesn\'t hold water.

Fans never know which Brooks is going to show for the game. One week on, one week off. When will we as fans be justified in our questioning of his ability?

The defense should put a collective foot up his arse, because otherwise they held the Falcons to SIX POINTS. The defense holds the opponent to two field goals, and we go to OT. Wow.

I\'ll take a win. I\'ll even root for AB next week. I really want to like him, and I\'ve refrained from bashing him on this board, but sometimes I feel like the title of this thread.

Go ahead, call me short-sighted, fair weather... whatever.

Enough is enough
 

whowatches

I\'m with you only weaker. I fall to being mad about AB sometimes (for some totally unexplicable reason I am told).

Yep. I have, and will, root for AB or whoever is at QB for the Saints. Saints first man, but surely I can get upset if they are not functioning.

Enough is enough
 

So you\'re cool if we don\'t go for Ben Jones? ;)

Enough is enough
 

please billy, AB was the reason that we were in the hole in the first place, and deuce and the D are the reasons that we won heh game... i know deuce had the big fumble in OT at the goal line, but he made up for it after that with huge runs on the 2nd drive...

Enough is enough
 

The fact is pak that QB\'s sometimes do that. I don\'t mean just some QB\'s sometimes do that. I mean ALL QB\'s. Brooks had a lot to do with the comeback. Just as much as Deuce. Of course, I guess you don\'t see it that way?

Enough is enough
 

You know what? Deuce and the Defense definitely won this game. Props to Billy, if this D keeps playing like this you will be totally right about them. Howard made a huge difference, he was all over the field making play after play.

And you know what? This is one of those times that I might normally have joined in with all the Bashers and destroyed Brooks, but I can\'t. His two pics looked terrible. But so did Deuce\'s two fumbles in the red zone in the 4th QT and OT. So did Pathon\'s two drops. This was an ugly win, but, I can\'t believe I\'m about to say this, but I think Saintfan and Billy may be right. Brooks reminds me of Favre at this point in each\'s career. Brooks is streaky, just like Favre. He has great games where he gets this O rolling. He also makes terrible decisions at times and seems to be just boneheaded. The big difference between the two right now is Championships. The Saints are close. They need to make it to the playoffs this year, and make a very serious Super Bowl run next year that at least brings us to the NFC Championship game. In any case, Brooks is not a top five QB right now. But he does have the ability to get there and if he ever stops making boneheaded decisions, he\'ll turn into a great QB.

[Edited on 17/11/2003 by WhoDat]

Enough is enough
 

You see Delhomme on Sunday NFL Countdown? Man, now he\'s a QB!! LMAO. ;)

Saintfan? Where are you? Drunk off of my Tang I\'m sure. ;)

Enough is enough
 

I can\'t stand whiney little girl fans like half the people on this site. Aaron Brooks threw a couple of bad picks. Wow, at least no one else in the NFL throws picks. All other QBs are perfect. Dan Marino never threw interceptions, nor do Favre, or Culpepper for that reason. All the posters on this site are perfect too.

Enough is enough
 

The absolute facts are, and there is no way to spin this positive, every football expert, sportswriter, commentator, etc agrees that there is no way to predict which AB is going to show up on Sunday. No matter how we win, it is a win and it brings us closer to our ultimate goal. However, there is NO WAY we can reach that goal with a QB who cannot be consistent! Period.

ANY QB in the league can have a bad day. Not any QB in the league has them every other week. Lousy, below-average, press-inflated srubs do exactly that. Deuce carried this team the first part of the year. The defense has stepped up and helped out a lot lately.

Our offense CANNOT seem to perform in the passing game. Why? Well, you could blame all the receivers for drops and say that AB\'s stats would be MUCH better if they caught them. I\'ve got news for you, the Falcon\'s QB had THREE TIMES AS MANY DROPS! I guess we should all agree that Kittner is a GREAT QB because if his receivers had caught those balls..... hoo-nanny, WHAT A PASSING RATING!

You could say that ALL our receivers are no talent hacks that cannot get open. That\'s an approach I guess and since we are not there on the field, we cannot argue with that. I would like to appeal to the common sense of the membership of this board: what is the common thread in our passing game. Simple answer here: Aaron Brooks.

He is not getting it done. This is his fourth season on this team, in this system, under these coaches. This is his third season as full-time starter. If anything, he has gotten worse as the years have gone by. For whatever reason this has happened, I say again: enough is enough.

Enough is enough
 

Your logic is skewed Jude. I heard two announcers make the comment you suddenly attribute to \"every football expert, sportswriter, commentator, etc\". What those \"experts\" agree on varies from week to week. They are in the entertainment business, and they know it. Don\'t you? Brooks\' play surely was erratic Sunday. Find me a QB that doesn\'t have those days. ...and oh by the way...happy hunting.

Be very careful stating something as \"absolute fact\" when it\'s an obvious opinion. That\'s a dangerous business man. Since you think you have this football stuff essentially figured out, why not go ahead and post the final record for every team in the NFL. If you\'re as right as you seem to think you are then I\'ll be back on this board the day after the season to give you your props.

There are more \"common threads\" in our passing game than one man sir. They would be Deuce, Joe, Donte\', Michael, and Jerome along with the Tight Ends and the offensive line...11 all together if my math is correct (not counting the coaches, but then they too are part of the \"common thread\" are they not?). \"Simple Answer\"? Indeed it isn\'t so simple. If it were, then the PROFESSIONALS getting paid to play and coach would have figured it out by now.

The problems on the Saints team go much deeper than your \"Simple answer\". Your view sir, in my opinion is simple indeed, and terribly inaccurate, but you\'re entitled to it.

Enough is enough
 

So Jude, you want consistancy huh? Well, look around at the QB\'s in this league that are more consistant than Brooks.(and it ain\'t that many.) ALL of those QB\'s have been in the leage much longer and have GREAT offensive lines. Then there are a lot of QB\'s that have been starters in the league much longer that are less consistant than AB this year. Brooks makes some bad throws and bad decisions at times, there is little doubt about that. But, so do about 90% of the other QB\'s in this league. Do you watch other QB\'s in the league besides Manning and Steve McNair? Please take a look at Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, etc... So, if you want consistancy, and you feel that\'s the only way we can win is with more consistancy, then there are certainly many teams out there that are in the same boat.

There\'s nothing wrong with saying that Brooks needs to be more consistant. But, to be talking about cutting the guy is crazy. Can I say crazy? How \'bout foolish?

Enough is enough
 

I just can\'t understand it. Billy and Saintfan must be blood relatives of Haslett, b/c they clearly have the same Brooks-loving eyes. Look at the posts above. First, Saintfan tries to convince us all that Brooks had one bad half or game, and that he is not, in fact, inconsistent. Then Billy tries to convince us that Brooks is more consistent than most other QBs in the league, and why do you need consistency anyway?

I know what the problem is here, I haven\'t had any Tang in two days! Unreal. Listen you two, I have been about as fair as is possible to Brooks this season - you both have to admit that. Brooks is the best QB in the team right now. He\'s got a great arm, a lot of athleticism, and he is starting to improve his efficiency and make fewer dumb mistakes. HOWEVER, you two still refuse to believe that the man has ANY flaws. It\'s unbelievable.

If I were given one word to define Brooks\' career thus far it would probably be inconsistent. I don\'t need analysts or experts (who pretty much do all agree he\'s streaky saintfan - at least the ones not living in New Orleans do) to tell me that the man plays up and down. I can see it myself. If you two can\'t then something is wrong with your eyes.

I understand that you get so involved in protecting him against what you perceive to be unjustified criticism that your first instinct is to rush in to defend. Next time that happens, stop, and ask yourself two questions? A) Why am I defending this guy? B) Is there any merit to what the other side is saying?

You two polarize this argument. You often tell people that their views are skewed when in fact they tend to be the views held by the majority of people on this board, in the media, or just in the world.

I\'ll tell you all right now why Brooks is the target of so much frustration - b/c he perfectly embodies the Saints as a team. Lots of talent, could be one of the best in the league, has flashes of greatness... but those are almost always followed by colossal blunders, mental mistakes, and/or breakdowns that result in being just short of the end goal. If teams take on the personality of their leaders, and Brooks is this team leader that you two assert he has been since at least last season, what does that say about Brooks? Right now it would show grit and determination in the face of adversity... of course, that adversity came about b/c of mental mistakes and lackadaisical play, so it\'s a double-edged sword.

I\'ve tried my best to give the man credit where credit is due, and criticize when it is warranted this year. I think I\'ve been pretty fair. I don\'t think I\'ve heard one \"negative\" remark about the man from either of you in weeks - and when you do say something it\'s tongue-in-cheek or a \"yeah he played up and down in this one game, BUT...\"

Enough is enough
 

One again WhoDat you tell untruths. For example:

When in fact I said this:

Spin it anyway you want or put words in my mouth, but I stand by what I said. Which is Brooks makes bad throws and decisions but to be calling for him to be cut is foolish. You bunch of no nothing clod\'s.......... :P

Enough is enough
 

If anyone is guilty of \"polarizing\" the Books argument it\'s the 08er-aid drinkers and the \"Tang Gang\". In another thread (One in which you participated Whodat) I acknowledged that the two INT\'s last Sunday were on Brooks. Plain and Simple.

I said, and I quote, \"Brooks\' play was surely erratic\", and you said, and I quote, \"First, Saintfan tries to convince us all that Brooks had one bad half or game, and that he is not, in fact, inconsistent.\" So maybe you can explain, in detail, how my comment indicates what you somehow managed to read into it. This ought to be good. If you wanna indicate that I said something specific, quote it. If you can\'t, don\'t make assumptions you can\'t back up. It doesn\'t show well on you when you put words in other people\'s mouths. I said NOTHING to relflect what you said I said. You MUST be drunk on Tang my man. What else could it be?

The point of my response to Jude was directed specifically at his \"Common Thread\" nonsense which I think I clearly defined as totally short sighted. To say that Aaron Brooks is the only common thread in the passing game is totally insane. That, my friend, is polarization of the worst kind, yet you fail to point that out to Jude and attempt to accuse it of me. Why is that?

The reason, in my opinion, is because while your posts are less \"polarized\" regarding Aaron Brooks than they have been in the past, the general theme remains the same...in my opinion.

If you and Jude want to believe that Brooks is the ONLY common thread in the passing game then sit back, take another sip of Tang, and continue to display complete ignorance. To say that is totally ignorant, since there are 11 men on the offensive side of the ball who all contribute.

Did Brooks make some poor throws Sunday...yup, sure did. Did he rebound in the second half and guide some pretty effective drives? Yup, sure did. How was the protection up front by the way? How many times was he sacked? Blame where Blame is warranted sir, and credit where credit is due. That is all I\'m attempting to do now and that is all I have ever attempted to do.

I am providing you with a link to an article you may not have read, but I think you should. Pass it on to Jude while you\'re at it. If you\'d like to continue to Blame Aaron Brooks then go right ahead. Don\'t hold it against me or Billy just because we see through the agenda 08 and his propaganda machine continue to support. Get on that bandwagon if you\'d like, but stop riding the fence.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...3878091880.xml

Enough is enough
 

Hilarious. There seem to be three people who are SURE of Aaron Brooks\' abilities right now. 08, Billy, and Saintfan.

Sorry Saintfan, I\'m going to continue to be unsure of Brooks until his play warrants a decision one way or the other. As of yet, he is TOO INCONSISTENT to make any determination. But you and Billy can continue to worship this guy all you want. I\'m sure you made up your minds about the man in, what, week 11 or 12 of the 2000 season when the Saints beat the Rams in St. Louis with Brooks at the helm. Yeah, I doubt your tune has changed much since then, although, the man certainly has.

Enough is enough
 

Funny how you avoided that all together.

Enough is enough
 

Please !! You need to stop drinking that damn Tang. It\'s killing all of your brain cells. Is this the same guy that was so convinced that Jake Delhomme was a great QB that is saying this? What exactly has Jake done that has you convinced about him? Don\'t answer WhoDat. Just take another drink of the Tang and I\'m sure you\'ll rationalize it some kinda way..........

[Edited on 18/11/2003 by BillyC]

Enough is enough
 

Ok, so be it. \"Ignorant\", \"Short-sighted\", \"Foolish\", \"Crazy\". These are the responses to my post. I accept that I can post something that is not a personal attack on anyone and have it returned with the abovementioned commentary.

This will be my last post and I could really care less if you are happy about it or sad. This board should be renamed \"Brooks is Gold\", because anytime you rightfully point out his flaws you are berated. Nice work all and good luck with the new members who want to post on this board.

Enough is enough
 

JudeThaddeus -- Look man, I apologize if I offended you. I wasn\'t saying you were foolish only that the comment about cutting Brooks was foolish. You are entitled to your opinion and more than welcome to post whatever you want as far as I\'m concerned. Post what you want -- I will not make comments like that towards anymore of your posts.


[Edited on 18/11/2003 by BillyC]

Enough is enough
 

Does this mean you are sick of it and are going to take your ball and go home now? I love how when people get fed up, one of the first responses they post is something to the effect of, \"Have fun, cause I won\'t be here anymore\". Like the message board will spin out of control and be lost in oblivion because one guy no longer comes here. Well guess what- that happened a long time ago, and it wasn\'t because anyone stopped posting. Because nobody cares. This board will continue on, regardless of whether you, or me, or WhoDat, or Tweeky, or anyone stops posting. If you don\'t like an argument, don\'t post to it, and be sure as hell not to start another thread about it.
Now, for all you unsure about the future of AB, please come join me, there is plenty of room on the fence. That is all.

Enough is enough
 

Was this not essentially the first post in this thread? Are you tellin me and others to \"Stop defending Brooks\"? After that you have the freakin NERVE to get upset when I point out to you that there are 11 men on offense and not 1? Are you really serious? Good riddance sir, and if you happen to come back just to see if anyone responded (as if we might miss you) remember this: If you can\'t run with the Big Dogs stay on the porch. In other words, don\'t start the thread if you\'re not prepared or if you\'re too fragile to defend it.

:o

[Edited on 18/11/2003 by saintfan]

Enough is enough
 

I shouldn\'t even comment on this any further, but I will. We all joke around with each other and we know we are only joking. When someone say\'s I am foolish or ignorant, or whatever, I know they are playing(well, most of the time) and that\'s no different than me talking to one of by buddies about sports. But, Jude hasn\'t been around that long and I guess he took what was said personally. I hope he comes back because the more the merrier as far as I\'m concerned. I just hope he doesn\'t take offense so quickly next time.

IMO, a certain amount of ribbing is going to take place on a message board, especially when you start calling memebers out on certain subjects.

Enough is enough
 

Perhaps my choice of words was a bit harsh, but it seems to me he had his feelers on his sleeve. ;)

I catch it from all angles from time to time and I dish it right back, thus the \"Big Dog on the Porch\" comment. I have no sympathy. Dude drops in here at half-time and posts nonesense and got called on it. C-YA

Enough is enough
 

Yeah, I agree, but I can\'t be going there. If ya know what I mean -- :P

Enough is enough
 

He called Brooks \"some half-wit loser\" as I recall and then forgot how to add. Then he got his feelings hurt. Oh well. I didn\'t call HIM a half-wit loser whether I believe he is or not. He posted his opinion and I posted mine. That\'s what we\'re here for right?

Like BandB said, does this mean he\'s gonna take his ball and go home now? I rekon we can keep the game going.

Enough is enough
 

Jude was talking to the both of us, I believe. He over reacted. He\'s obviously read about the \"not discourging new members from posting\" topic and wanted to make a point. It was a little over the top, IMO. Oh well......

Enough is enough
 

The win in the end did make it too easy to forget the two picks within the 30. That was the worst feeling.

I\'m still with Brooks and think he\'s a talented QB. They pulled out the win and hopefully they\'ll move on to another next weekend.

If they land an L on Philly it will make my season.

Enough is enough
 

ROFL, THAT\'S going in the sig, somewhere.

I agree, although I would be hard pressed to call McNair a \"running\" QB. Maybe 5 years ago, but he doesn\'t need to anymore, he\'s just that good.

Enough is enough
 

dberce1
Yeh, you\'re right :exclam:

Enough is enough
 

I can\'t wait for the usual suspects to blow smoke about how Brooks had nothing to do with losing this game. Forget the fumbles, how many QBs do you know that call an audible and then take a sack. If this moron had a brain he\'d still be dumber than a stump. The Saints should have signed him to an incentive-laden contract, a very simple one: he should get paid when the Saints win and not when they don\'t. Then he could prove whether or not he\'s one of the top 5 QBs in the league because ever since he made that silly statement , he\'s gone on to prove he isn\'t.

This past week he stated he ran more (and, strangely was more successful) during the year he took over for Jeff Blake because he didn\'t know the offense that well. Now he supposedly knows the offense and he stinks. Someone oughtta arrest him for larceny because he\'s stealing money from the Saints\' organization. They\'re paying Todd Bouman a million bucks this year so they might as well play him. They should bench Brooks (so he doesn\'t get hurt) and then next year hope they can find some team stupid enough (like some folks frequenting this website) to take him off their hands. Since he\'s making big money that\'s probably not likely but, because we\'re Saints fans, if we ain\'t got hope, we ain\'t got nothin\'.

By the way...for some of you insistant on defending Brooks be aware that in doing so, you simply prove you are as ignorant about football as he is. For example, why would a QB worry about an INT on a two-point conversion? Only an idiot would...which explains why Brooks did.

Situational awareness? Even if this guy could spell that term he wouldn\'t have the faintest idea what it means. Passing statistics are great only if a team wins. The Saints do not necessarily win with Brooks at the helm (look at their record with him as a starter) and the sooner Haslett figures that out the more likely he is to keep his job. Otherwise he\'s a goner...and rightfully so.

Enough is enough
 

Great post Blake. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with one thing. I doubt Haslett is going anywhere. As a result, you should get used to what you\'ve seen for the last two and a half seasons from this team. You\'re right, there\'s no hope. Despite the sunshine and flowers that some members of this board are peddling, you should be prepared for 7-9 to 9-7 and NO PLAYOFF appearances as long as Haslett and Co. are at the helm of this team.