Saints reach 4 year deal(12 million) with Pierre Thomas

Crusader · 03-03-2011, 03:32 PM

This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts.

Danno · 03-03-2011, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts.

But when Ivory goes on IR after 6 games, we have PT to count on.

Great signing.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-03-2011, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts.

This doesn't excite me either. I was hoping the team would look into getting a bigger, more solid, less injury-prone back via the draft or free agency to handle the work load. I give credit to Thomas and everything he has done for the Saints. But I've grown sick of looking through the injury depleted running back corps over the past seasons and wondering from game to game who was going to shoulder (or knee, ankle, etc) the load. Going back to the last few injury plagued seasons of Deuce to Antowain Smith, to Aaron Stecker, to Mike Bell, to Thomas, to Hamilton, to Ivory it seems like the team thinks they can just throw a body out there and it will be good enough to get the job done. I don't agree with this. The most productive back in the team's history was obtained with a first round draft pick. Why the HECK is Payton satisfied with oft-injured unknowns to handle one of the most important spots on the roster.
I know a good run game requires good run blocking and that was lacking last season. But if we had a Stephen Jckson type back it would help our offense vastly. Rather than being able to run sometimes because teams feared the passing attack, we would be able to actually run the ball when we want to, which would open up the passing even more. Who knows, they may even be able to convert those 3rd and 4th down short yardage situations (Seattle playoff game anyone) that they seem to not get so often.
I dearly hope I am wrong and Thomas runs for 2,000 yards during the upcoming 18 game season, leads the Saints to their second Superbowl title and makes the pro bowl. But I don't expect it and I sure am not all excited about the prospect of the Saint's best running back being a guy who has averaged 41 yards per game and 5 games missed for injury over the 4 seasons he's been on the team.
Now go prove me wrong Pierre! PLEASE!

pherein · 03-03-2011, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

This doesn't excite me either. PLEASE!

Well there are some other things you have to consider. PT has the sight, which is very rare in a RB. Faster stronger RB's don't mean anything if they don't have the sight. Ivory does not have the sight.
If you watch PT's footage he knows were guys are and how to move without thinking, you dont have time to think when running the ball. To me its an art form, your dealing 10ths of a second. Its a gift , you either have it or you dont, and PT has it. He might be slow and not as strong as people would like, but he also has a chip on his shoulder, another quality in a good RB. His ball control is amazing. I think the only thing hes missing as a RB is balance, he seems to struggle because of his brick build.

PT is a solid acquisition for 4 years. He could be rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll. I think he's one of the most underrated RB's in the NFL.

YouTube - Pierre Thomas Highlights 2009

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-03-2011, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

Well there are some other things you have to consider. PT has the sight, which is very rare in a RB. Faster stronger RB's don't mean anything if they don't have the sight. Ivory does not have the sight.
If you watch PT's footage he knows were guys are and how to move without thinking, you dont have time to think when running the ball. To me its an art form, your dealing 10ths of a second. Its a gift , you either have it or you dont, and PT has it. He might be slow and not as strong as people would like, but he also has a chip on his shoulder, another quality in a good RB. His ball control is amazing. I think the only thing hes missing as a RB is balance, he seems to struggle because of his brick build.

PT is a solid acquisition for 4 years. He could be rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll. I think he's one of the most underrated RB's in the NFL.

YouTube - Pierre Thomas Highlights 2009

You can pull up all the footage you want from 2 seasons ago and talk about how artful he is all you want. It doesn't change that fact that Thomas with his "gift" of sight averaged 3.2 yards per carry last year while the blind Ivory averaged 5.2 (not that I'm hyping Ivory as a savior, but you brought him up). You say Thomas could be "rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll." What makes you think Pierre is capable of holding the lead role himself for even one year when he hasn't been able to do that once in any of the four seasons he was given a chance to? Do you think he's suddenly going to be back better, stronger and more durable next year after suffering TWO serious ankle injuries this year?

Look, I think Thomas is a fine back and I'm not going to knock on any of his accomplishments. Having him on the team is a good thing. But IMO he, and all of the other backs on the team, owe most of their success because other teams were more worried about (i.e. gearing to stop) the passing attack than the running attack. On a cold, windy day when passing is tough, or on short yardage situations when a run is likely the Saints have had trouble converting.

PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.

pherein · 03-04-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.

Chris Ivory NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pierre Thomas NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Steven Jackson NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, and Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didnt improve that stat either.

IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you.
Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that.
Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving.
Thomas in 2009 did better than Ivory this year, way better because Ivory had almost no receiving yards.

The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either.
12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven.

Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-04-2011, 06:35 PM

I appreciate the explanation.

Originally Posted by pherein

I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call,

I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory.

Originally Posted by pherein

Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either.

Originally Posted by pherein

IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you.
Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that.
Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving.

These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can.

Originally Posted by pherein

The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either.
12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven.

True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads.

Originally Posted by pherein

Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.

I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.

pherein · 03-06-2011, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

I appreciate the explanation..

And I yours, we just differ on our opinion, thats not really so bad.

These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. .

In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed.
The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week.
You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone?
There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital.

Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL.

If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing.

Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done.

st thomas · 03-04-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

This doesn't excite me either. I was hoping the team would look into getting a bigger, more solid, less injury-prone back via the draft or free agency to handle the work load. I give credit to Thomas and everything he has done for the Saints. But I've grown sick of looking through the injury depleted running back corps over the past seasons and wondering from game to game who was going to shoulder (or knee, ankle, etc) the load. Going back to the last few injury plagued seasons of Deuce to Antowain Smith, to Aaron Stecker, to Mike Bell, to Thomas, to Hamilton, to Ivory it seems like the team thinks they can just throw a body out there and it will be good enough to get the job done. I don't agree with this. The most productive back in the team's history was obtained with a first round draft pick. Why the HECK is Payton satisfied with oft-injured unknowns to handle one of the most important spots on the roster.
I know a good run game requires good run blocking and that was lacking last season. But if we had a Stephen Jckson type back it would help our offense vastly. Rather than being able to run sometimes because teams feared the passing attack, we would be able to actually run the ball when we want to, which would open up the passing even more. Who knows, they may even be able to convert those 3rd and 4th down short yardage situations (Seattle playoff game anyone) that they seem to not get so often.
I dearly hope I am wrong and Thomas runs for 2,000 yards during the upcoming 18 game season, leads the Saints to their second Superbowl title and makes the pro bowl. But I don't expect it and I sure am not all excited about the prospect of the Saint's best running back being a guy who has averaged 41 yards per game and 5 games missed for injury over the 4 seasons he's been on the team.
Now go prove me wrong Pierre! PLEASE!

u have good points s.m. but i'm sure if a ingram or leshoure is there at 24 he will grab one. and about s. jackson, he's been hurt the last few years besides 2010 so its just badluck involved in these injuries and our luck sucked the most i sure agree with it there.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-04-2011, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

i'm sure if a ingram or leshoure is there at 24 he will grab one.

That would be nice!

03-03-2011, 03:38 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Originally Posted by Crusader This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts. But when Ivory goes on IR after 6 games, we have PT to count on. Great signing.

03-03-2011, 06:20 PM	#3
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Originally Posted by Crusader This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts. This doesn't excite me either. I was hoping the team would look into getting a bigger, more solid, less injury-prone back via the draft or free agency to handle the work load. I give credit to Thomas and everything he has done for the Saints. But I've grown sick of looking through the injury depleted running back corps over the past seasons and wondering from game to game who was going to shoulder (or knee, ankle, etc) the load. Going back to the last few injury plagued seasons of Deuce to Antowain Smith, to Aaron Stecker, to Mike Bell, to Thomas, to Hamilton, to Ivory it seems like the team thinks they can just throw a body out there and it will be good enough to get the job done. I don't agree with this. The most productive back in the team's history was obtained with a first round draft pick. Why the HECK is Payton satisfied with oft-injured unknowns to handle one of the most important spots on the roster. I know a good run game requires good run blocking and that was lacking last season. But if we had a Stephen Jckson type back it would help our offense vastly. Rather than being able to run sometimes because teams feared the passing attack, we would be able to actually run the ball when we want to, which would open up the passing even more. Who knows, they may even be able to convert those 3rd and 4th down short yardage situations (Seattle playoff game anyone) that they seem to not get so often. I dearly hope I am wrong and Thomas runs for 2,000 yards during the upcoming 18 game season, leads the Saints to their second Superbowl title and makes the pro bowl. But I don't expect it and I sure am not all excited about the prospect of the Saint's best running back being a guy who has averaged 41 yards per game and 5 games missed for injury over the 4 seasons he's been on the team. Now go prove me wrong Pierre! PLEASE!
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-03-2011, 07:55 PM	#5
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Originally Posted by pherein Well there are some other things you have to consider. PT has the sight, which is very rare in a RB. Faster stronger RB's don't mean anything if they don't have the sight. Ivory does not have the sight. If you watch PT's footage he knows were guys are and how to move without thinking, you dont have time to think when running the ball. To me its an art form, your dealing 10ths of a second. Its a gift , you either have it or you dont, and PT has it. He might be slow and not as strong as people would like, but he also has a chip on his shoulder, another quality in a good RB. His ball control is amazing. I think the only thing hes missing as a RB is balance, he seems to struggle because of his brick build. PT is a solid acquisition for 4 years. He could be rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll. I think he's one of the most underrated RB's in the NFL. YouTube - Pierre Thomas Highlights 2009 You can pull up all the footage you want from 2 seasons ago and talk about how artful he is all you want. It doesn't change that fact that Thomas with his "gift" of sight averaged 3.2 yards per carry last year while the blind Ivory averaged 5.2 (not that I'm hyping Ivory as a savior, but you brought him up). You say Thomas could be "rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll." What makes you think Pierre is capable of holding the lead role himself for even one year when he hasn't been able to do that once in any of the four seasons he was given a chance to? Do you think he's suddenly going to be back better, stronger and more durable next year after suffering TWO serious ankle injuries this year? Look, I think Thomas is a fine back and I'm not going to knock on any of his accomplishments. Having him on the team is a good thing. But IMO he, and all of the other backs on the team, owe most of their success because other teams were more worried about (i.e. gearing to stop) the passing attack than the running attack. On a cold, windy day when passing is tough, or on short yardage situations when a run is likely the Saints have had trouble converting. PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-04-2011, 03:47 PM	#6
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not. Chris Ivory NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Pierre Thomas NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Steven Jackson NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, and Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didnt improve that stat either. IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you. Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that. Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving. Thomas in 2009 did better than Ivory this year, way better because Ivory had almost no receiving yards. The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either. 12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven. Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before.

03-04-2011, 06:35 PM	#7
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	I appreciate the explanation. Originally Posted by pherein I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory. Originally Posted by pherein Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either. Originally Posted by pherein IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you. Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that. Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving. These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. Originally Posted by pherein The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either. 12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven. True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads. Originally Posted by pherein Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board. I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-03-2011, 03:32 PM	#1
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,045	This doesn't really excite me. Hope Ivory gets the starts.

03-06-2011, 11:03 PM	#8
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL I appreciate the explanation.. And I yours, we just differ on our opinion, thats not really so bad. These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. . In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed. The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week. You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone? There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital. Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL. If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing. Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before.

03-04-2011, 02:12 PM	#9
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL This doesn't excite me either. I was hoping the team would look into getting a bigger, more solid, less injury-prone back via the draft or free agency to handle the work load. I give credit to Thomas and everything he has done for the Saints. But I've grown sick of looking through the injury depleted running back corps over the past seasons and wondering from game to game who was going to shoulder (or knee, ankle, etc) the load. Going back to the last few injury plagued seasons of Deuce to Antowain Smith, to Aaron Stecker, to Mike Bell, to Thomas, to Hamilton, to Ivory it seems like the team thinks they can just throw a body out there and it will be good enough to get the job done. I don't agree with this. The most productive back in the team's history was obtained with a first round draft pick. Why the HECK is Payton satisfied with oft-injured unknowns to handle one of the most important spots on the roster. I know a good run game requires good run blocking and that was lacking last season. But if we had a Stephen Jckson type back it would help our offense vastly. Rather than being able to run sometimes because teams feared the passing attack, we would be able to actually run the ball when we want to, which would open up the passing even more. Who knows, they may even be able to convert those 3rd and 4th down short yardage situations (Seattle playoff game anyone) that they seem to not get so often. I dearly hope I am wrong and Thomas runs for 2,000 yards during the upcoming 18 game season, leads the Saints to their second Superbowl title and makes the pro bowl. But I don't expect it and I sure am not all excited about the prospect of the Saint's best running back being a guy who has averaged 41 yards per game and 5 games missed for injury over the 4 seasons he's been on the team. Now go prove me wrong Pierre! PLEASE! u have good points s.m. but i'm sure if a ingram or leshoure is there at 24 he will grab one. and about s. jackson, he's been hurt the last few years besides 2010 so its just badluck involved in these injuries and our luck sucked the most i sure agree with it there.

03-04-2011, 06:39 PM	#10
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Originally Posted by st thomas i'm sure if a ingram or leshoure is there at 24 he will grab one. That would be nice!
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446