Intersting take on NFL Lockout.

Memnoch_TP · 03-24-2011, 09:47 PM

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Originally Posted by lynwood

Look, I'm cutting out of this conversation with you. Clearly we have a difference of philosphy and I can respect that. I still totally disagree with yours.

That is fine, but your mistake is thinking that this was a philosophy discussion. I was discussing the facts of the situation, while you have been screaming "But Santa is so good that he SHOULD be real" when you weren't screaming "If I can't go to the party, Billy shouldn't be able to either! It isn't fair!"

It hasn't exactly been intellectually stimulating for me, either.

Originally Posted by lynwood

I have yet to see any neglet or breaking of obligations that wasn't allowed in the agreement.

You know what, it would be easier to do this than say this... again...

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP

The court case isn't about forcing the NFL owners to open their books, it is about the NFL owners setting up loaded TV contracts to give them leverage over the players when those same owners are contractually obligated to looks out for the well being of the players as well.

They are supposed to try to maximize profits for EVERYONE, instead they deliberately set up a scenario that would keep money rolling in for them, yet allow them to freeze out the players.

See, you had seen a breaking of a contractual obligation by the owners.

Originally Posted by strato

Ok everybody take a deep breath and get off your high horses....we have no control on what these rich people do..do me a favor and let it go..we to have just play the waiting game...let just hope for a good draft and a resolution.....just stare at my avi for 5 mins...

We have no control over what happens on a football field, either, but we have an entire board to discuss it on.

No one is making you read the thread. Skip it and stop telling me what to talk about. Thanks.

PS, I would rather just watch Dogma than stare at your avatar.

lynwood · 03-25-2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP

...

That is fine, but your mistake is thinking that this was a philosophy discussion. I was discussing the facts of the situation, while you have been screaming "But Santa is so good that he SHOULD be real" when you weren't screaming "If I can't go to the party, Billy shouldn't be able to either! It isn't fair!"

It hasn't exactly been intellectually stimulating for me, either.

You know what, it would be easier to do this than say this... again...

See, you had seen a breaking of a contractual obligation by the owners.

We have no control over what happens on a football field, either, but we have an entire board to discuss it on.

No one is making you read the thread. Skip it and stop telling me what to talk about. Thanks.

PS, I would rather just watch Dogma than stare at your avatar.

I tried to back out of this conversation but you are so incorrect it's more painful for me to stay out.

I don't get the Santa Reference.

You seem like an Intelligent guy by the amount of words you can stuff into a paragraph so you should be able to understand what i'm saying and asking.

State a fact that is not an opinion from your point of view... I'll help you with some of mine:

Owners opted out of a contract that everyone had a right to do.

Owners Opted-out first based on their need for more cash for overhead and to work out terms that would be more favorable to them.

Owners own the football teams and decide salary(or agree to salary terms via CBA).

Players work for the owners and collect a paycheck provided by the owners.

Owners do not have to open the books for review by players to determine if teh owners request is legitimate.

Players can reject the owners offer.

Owners can reject the players demands. I say Demands because the players are not paying the owners anything.

I pulled this from an Article and if this doesn't convince you that the owners are getting a raw deal nothing will:

"Right now, the NFL players are getting about 60% of the total revenues the league generates each year.

But it’s not exactly a 60/40 split. You have to remember that the owners 40% cut goes into operational costs.

•Coaches: ALL of them make at least $100,000. There’s probably 20 of them.
•Highest coach could make up to $5 million
•Other top coaches on the staff make $1-2 million
•General Manager: this is around $1 million
•Office Staff: someone needs to staple all the documents.
•Media Relations, Public Relations, Marketing, Sales,Accounting
•Scouting: this is a huge cost that is sometimes forgotten about.
•Travel costs: this includes air transportation, hotels and meals.
•Equipment: we’re talking millions of dollars
The owner keeps whatever is left. No one is feeling sorry for the owners here but I vaguely understand why the owners want what they want."

NFL Owners vs. NFL Players - 104.5 THE TEAM - ESPN RADIO

Players use a union for negotiations and then disband their union for what again? I'd like to know your opinion or fact on this.

What rights do you think the owners have?

The above are some Facts of the situation plus a question or two.

Your facts of the situation up to this point doesn't really hold anything substansial(in my opinion) due to them being based on your philosophy of who you perceive as being Greedy or the system of ownership vs players and unions. They are all greedy or maybe just want what best benefits them. Who wouldn't want that? Your opinion is that the players should benefit more than the owners.

You seem to like the idea of players picking their own salary based on company revenue or what they perceive they are worth. But don't like the owners rejecting that figure. You don't like that based on not the facts but your philosophy about greed, owners and who should have control over salary and the total dollar amount of a 9 billion dollar industry. If that is not your opinion then you are not as clear as you think.

If there is no NFL games next year you would Blame the Owners for Breaking a contract they had the right to break(and the players knew this cause they shared the right) and say they are greedy because they didn't meet players demands?

I would say the players didn't meet the owners offer.

I'd rather you watch Dogma than stare at my Avatar as well.

03-24-2011, 09:47 PM	#1
Memnoch_TP Logic Troll Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 565	... Originally Posted by lynwood Look, I'm cutting out of this conversation with you. Clearly we have a difference of philosphy and I can respect that. I still totally disagree with yours. That is fine, but your mistake is thinking that this was a philosophy discussion. I was discussing the facts of the situation, while you have been screaming "But Santa is so good that he SHOULD be real" when you weren't screaming "If I can't go to the party, Billy shouldn't be able to either! It isn't fair!" It hasn't exactly been intellectually stimulating for me, either. Originally Posted by lynwood I have yet to see any neglet or breaking of obligations that wasn't allowed in the agreement. You know what, it would be easier to do this than say this... again... Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP The court case isn't about forcing the NFL owners to open their books, it is about the NFL owners setting up loaded TV contracts to give them leverage over the players when those same owners are contractually obligated to looks out for the well being of the players as well. They are supposed to try to maximize profits for EVERYONE, instead they deliberately set up a scenario that would keep money rolling in for them, yet allow them to freeze out the players. See, you had seen a breaking of a contractual obligation by the owners. Originally Posted by strato Ok everybody take a deep breath and get off your high horses....we have no control on what these rich people do..do me a favor and let it go..we to have just play the waiting game...let just hope for a good draft and a resolution.....just stare at my avi for 5 mins... We have no control over what happens on a football field, either, but we have an entire board to discuss it on. No one is making you read the thread. Skip it and stop telling me what to talk about. Thanks. PS, I would rather just watch Dogma than stare at your avatar.
	"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.

03-25-2011, 09:00 AM	#2
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP ... That is fine, but your mistake is thinking that this was a philosophy discussion. I was discussing the facts of the situation, while you have been screaming "But Santa is so good that he SHOULD be real" when you weren't screaming "If I can't go to the party, Billy shouldn't be able to either! It isn't fair!" It hasn't exactly been intellectually stimulating for me, either. You know what, it would be easier to do this than say this... again... See, you had seen a breaking of a contractual obligation by the owners. We have no control over what happens on a football field, either, but we have an entire board to discuss it on. No one is making you read the thread. Skip it and stop telling me what to talk about. Thanks. PS, I would rather just watch Dogma than stare at your avatar. I tried to back out of this conversation but you are so incorrect it's more painful for me to stay out. I don't get the Santa Reference. You seem like an Intelligent guy by the amount of words you can stuff into a paragraph so you should be able to understand what i'm saying and asking. State a fact that is not an opinion from your point of view... I'll help you with some of mine: Owners opted out of a contract that everyone had a right to do. Owners Opted-out first based on their need for more cash for overhead and to work out terms that would be more favorable to them. Owners own the football teams and decide salary(or agree to salary terms via CBA). Players work for the owners and collect a paycheck provided by the owners. Owners do not have to open the books for review by players to determine if teh owners request is legitimate. Players can reject the owners offer. Owners can reject the players demands. I say Demands because the players are not paying the owners anything. I pulled this from an Article and if this doesn't convince you that the owners are getting a raw deal nothing will: "Right now, the NFL players are getting about 60% of the total revenues the league generates each year. But it’s not exactly a 60/40 split. You have to remember that the owners 40% cut goes into operational costs. •Coaches: ALL of them make at least $100,000. There’s probably 20 of them. •Highest coach could make up to $5 million •Other top coaches on the staff make $1-2 million •General Manager: this is around $1 million •Office Staff: someone needs to staple all the documents. •Media Relations, Public Relations, Marketing, Sales,Accounting •Scouting: this is a huge cost that is sometimes forgotten about. •Travel costs: this includes air transportation, hotels and meals. •Equipment: we’re talking millions of dollars The owner keeps whatever is left. No one is feeling sorry for the owners here but I vaguely understand why the owners want what they want." NFL Owners vs. NFL Players - 104.5 THE TEAM - ESPN RADIO Players use a union for negotiations and then disband their union for what again? I'd like to know your opinion or fact on this. What rights do you think the owners have? The above are some Facts of the situation plus a question or two. Your facts of the situation up to this point doesn't really hold anything substansial(in my opinion) due to them being based on your philosophy of who you perceive as being Greedy or the system of ownership vs players and unions. They are all greedy or maybe just want what best benefits them. Who wouldn't want that? Your opinion is that the players should benefit more than the owners. You seem to like the idea of players picking their own salary based on company revenue or what they perceive they are worth. But don't like the owners rejecting that figure. You don't like that based on not the facts but your philosophy about greed, owners and who should have control over salary and the total dollar amount of a 9 billion dollar industry. If that is not your opinion then you are not as clear as you think. If there is no NFL games next year you would Blame the Owners for Breaking a contract they had the right to break(and the players knew this cause they shared the right) and say they are greedy because they didn't meet players demands? I would say the players didn't meet the owners offer. I'd rather you watch Dogma than stare at my Avatar as well.