Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

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Saints' 'D' gets passing grade

N.O. secondary shows marked improvement
Thursday December 18, 2003
By Jeff Duncan
Staff writer


The memory of the Saints' 55-21 blowout loss to Indianapolis at the Superdome in the fourth game of the season still makes Tebucky Jones wince.

"We were lost in that game," Jones said of the Saints' overwhelmed pass defense, which was pounded by Colts quarterback Peyton Manning for six touchdown passes and 318 yards in the nationally televised blowout.

Since that nightmarish evening, the Saints have allowed eight touchdown passes and 180 points, an average of 18 points per game. During that span, they have steadily improved from No. 21 to No. 8 in the league in passing defense.

In the first four games, the Saints allowed 10 touchdown passes, including two each by Seattle's Matt Hasselbeck and Tennessee's Steve McNair. Since then, they have held eight of 10 opponents to one touchdown pass or fewer. They have not surrendered a touchdown pass to a receiver since Keenan McCardell grabbed a 30-yard score in a 17-14 win at Tampa Bay on Nov. 2.

"It's cohesion, it's guys playing together in the coverage, it's defensive backs meshing with the linebackers," coordinator Rick Venturi said. "We're doing a better job of covering routes, of covering people, which then buys the pass rush a little time."

The improvement is not accidental. Venturi and Coach Jim Haslett overhauled the defensive strategy and personnel in the offseason after the unit was raided for more big plays than any defense in the league a year ago.

The Saints allowed a league-high 12 pass plays of 40 yards or more and 51 pass plays of 20 yards or more in 2002. Only Detroit (56) allowed more 20-yard receptions.

In an effort to prevent similar onslaughts, the Saints traded for Jones, a speedy free safety, and decided to use more zone coverage to allow the defensive backs better vision on the ball.

The results have been impressive. The Saints have allowed only two pass plays of 40 or more yards this season. Chicago, with one, is the only team to allow fewer. The Saints also rank ninth in 20-plus-yard pass plays, allowing 31 in 228 receptions.

"I think we're finally beginning to play the matchup (defense) as well as the zone," Venturi said. "There was a period of time where I felt like we had to go into a game with one or the other because of our inexperience together in the system. As the season has gone on we have been able to do both -- match versus Tampa and zone versus the Giants.

"That what (Patriots coach Bill) Belichick does. The Patriots defend the team. We may play Tampa different than we play Atlanta. We may play the Jaguars different than we play Jacksonville."

Venturi credits the play of safeties Jones and Jay Bellamy for much of the improvement. Bellamy has enjoyed the best season of his three-year Saints career. For all the criticism Jones has received for shoddy tackling and a failure to create big plays and turnovers, he has played well as a deep center fielder, preventing many of the big plays that haunted the unit a year ago.

"If you don't give up big plays, you stand less chance of losing," Jones said. "Basically we're saying, just beat us with the run. The biggest thing is don't let them beat us over the top. If they are going to beat us, let it be all short stuff, stop them and make them kick a field goal. We've been doing a pretty good job of that lately."

Early in the season, the influx of six new starters and a spree of injuries stunted the unit's progress and disrupted the defensive cohesiveness.

The injuries have subsided in recent weeks. Since linebacker Sedrick Hodge and defensive end Darren Howard returned to the lineup Nov. 16, only Willie Whitehead and Dale Carter have missed games because of injuries. In that five-game span, eight defenders have started every game.

"It's been a momentous task to put all the new guys together," Venturi said. "I'm pleased with the type of guy we have right now. We have the type of guy that comes to work every day. We've grown because they keep working at it. The more cohesion you get, the more you play together makes a huge difference in this league."

Jeff Duncan can be reached at jduncan@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3405.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I don\'t like this article using stats to try to show the passing defense as improving. A lare part of the passing defenses good numbers is the rushing defenses poor numbers. Opposeing teams threw the ball on the Saints fewer times(421 passing attempt) than only 5 other times. While they rushed the ball against the Saints more times than only eight other teams. Teams will not pass if they are having so much success on the ground. Its is comendable to point out the long passing gains are drying up. It also would be valid to point out while the team has some of the fewest passes in the league thrown aginst it, it ranks 17th in giving up TD \'s in the air. I didn\'t do the math for all the teams but just looking at it the Saints have one of the higher TD to pass attempt ratios. Also the team ranks in the bottom half of the league in giving up runs of 20yds of more.
I do believe the defense has improved as a whole from the start of the year but still believe this is a unit that needs work and added personel in the off season to compete at a playoff level.


[Edited on 12/18/2003 by saint5221]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I\'ve heard other fans make this same statement. Well, what would you like to use to show the pass defense has improved? Rushing stats? Sacks? Points allowed?

The Saints defense has held opponents to 20 points or less 9-times. If teams are so successful at runnig the ball down our throats, they sure the hell aren\'t getting it in the end zone. Maybe they should try to pass more and actually score some points. I watch the games just like the rest of you. I think teams really want to score more on us. I just don\'t think they can. I certainly don\'t believe they are trying to keep the games close.

Our run defense was as bad or worse last year and our pass defense was ranked at the bottom. Now our run defense is still bad and our pass defense is ranked near the top of the league, but y\'all want to not look at rankings? OK!!

[Edited on 18/12/2003 by BillyC]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

Billy, my point was stats out of context or just the passing stats as posted by this article and by you as well fail to tell the story they claim to. A defense is a intergrated whole not just a passing and a rushing unit, as such all the numbers need to be looked at not just one set.


[Edited on 12/18/2003 by saint5221]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

All I know is that our run defense was worse last year and our secondary got smoked in just about every game. This year our run defense still sucks, BUT the secondary isn\'t giving up plays. You pointed out that the secondary\'s \"stats\" are good because of teams being able to run on us. Well, they ran on us more last year. Why weren\'t the secondary\'s \"stats\' good last year? Could it be that our secondary really is as good as the \"stats\"? If teams were actually scoring by running the ball down our throats and not having to PASS the ball, then I would be inclined to agree with you. But, I don\'t buy that. Maybe the departure of Sammy Knight had a big impact in not giving up the big plays. Especially when you consider Miami\'s pass defense went from 8th in the NFL last year to 22nd this year and they are the ones giving up the big pass plays this year. The only one different in their secondary is Sammy Knight.

Miami 16 520 32.5 294 56.5 3102 193.9 20 21 47 327 Rank#8 -- 2002
Miami 14 473 33.8 282 59.6 3040 217.1 11 21 34 172 Rank# 22-- 2003

[Edited on 18/12/2003 by BillyC]

[Edited on 18/12/2003 by BillyC]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

But I think as a whole, this unit is quite a bit better than last year in every phase, including pass defense. You don\'t need stats to see that on the field.
The thing I like most is that is appears to be getting better (may I say Jellin\') every week.

The overhaul is about complete. Add a shutdown CB and a stud LB and I think we can move into that elite category most of us as long time Saints fans used to take for granted.
A veteran DT to plug the middle wouldn\'t hurt either.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I guess I could have added this to my origanal quote: I also thought the defense was better than last years at this point, but that was also my point Danno.



Billy, do you really think we have the 8th best passing defense in the league? I do not. I am not talking about better than last year. I never said anything about compairing to last year, that is your issue and aganda. I am merely trying to show that factors in one phase of the game can affect the stats in another and those factors are being ignored.


[Edited on 12/18/2003 by saint5221]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I don\'t know where our secondary SHOULD be ranked. I am simply trying to say that you CANNOT say that because our run defense is soft that our secondary should be ranked lower. As I said, our run defense was worse last year and our secondary was ranked low as well. If we use your arguement FAIRLY, then our secondary should have been ranked high last year. I\'m sure there are all kind of factors to why our secondary is ranked 8th, one of which they have played well. And that\'s the one I give most of the credit to, not our poor run defense. It just seems to me that arguement isn\'t a good one, or it would have applied last year.



[Edited on 18/12/2003 by BillyC]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

Billy surely you can see the logic of fewer passing attempts should equal fewer passing yards. More rushing attempts should equal more rushing yards. Teams are having success running the ball even you agree with that and they are rushing the ball against us more than only but a few teams in the league. Teams are passing the ball less on us than just about any other team in the league. It would make pretty good sense that we should be giving up fewer yard in the air then as well. I think it is pretty fair to suppose the high number of rushing attempts aginst us has something to do with the low number of passing attempts and thus the high ranking in passing yards.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

Yes, I can clearly understand that. I can also understand this :


I think you are giving WAY to much credit to the to the number of pass attempts against our pass defense. Last year teams passed the ball 7 more times per game and averaged 343 yards per game passing. This year they are throwing the ball 7-less times and averaging 228 yards per game. In other words, we have improved 115 yards per game in the passing game, which is why we are ranked 8th. Now, you are trying to tell me that because a team throws 7 less times per game that is the big reason we have given up 115 less yards in the passing game? I don\'t buy that.

Team/att-game/yards-game
New Orleans 30.1 228 -- 2003
New Orleans 37.1 343 --2002


What I do buy is that our secondary is much improved and not giving up this:






[Edited on 18/12/2003 by BillyC]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

Team/att-game/yards-game
New Orleans 30.1 228 -- 2002
New Orleans 37.1 343 --2003

Billy according to this teams throw the ball 7 times more against us this year.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

AH Billy, let me say this one more time. I am talking about this years numbers on this years team. Your quote of me was persuant to this year, to continually compare to last year is of no relevance to the point I am making and the point we have been discussing.

[Edited on 12/18/2003 by saint5221]

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I\'ve got the years in the wrong place. My bad. I\'m going to correct them now. Thanks.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

So, you contend that the reason that we are ranked 8th in the passing game is because teams are thowing the ball less? I don\'t see it. We\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I think that is a VERY SMALL part of it.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I don\'t know what other\'s opinions are of the job Venturi has done with the defense, but I think he has done a VERY good job. Really, the only thing that matters is how many points a defense holds it\'s opponents to. This year we have held opponents to 20 or less points in 9-games. I think we did it once last year?


In the offseason all the talk from Venturi was about stopping the BIG plays.(plays of 20 or more yards.) I had my doubts if this would be able to stop teams from scoring more than 20 points. It\'s clearly done exactly what Venturi said it was going to do.

When you break down the bad games that the defense has played, it was really in the first 4 games, when so many starters on defense were out.

First 4- games:

09/07 at Seattle L 10- 27
09/14 Houston W 31-10
09/21 at Tennessee L 12- 27
09/28 Indianapolis L 21- 55

Since that time, the only time the Saints defense has given up 20 or more points in 4-quarters of football has been against the Eagles. But our offense had 3 fumbles in that game that resulted in 21 of the Eagles points. So,I don\'t think all the fault goes on our defense for giving up 33-points to the Eagles.

11/23 at Philadelphia L 20-33

Turnovers against Philidephia :
A. Brooks 2 2 0 0
J. Pathon 1 1 0 0

What I find very interesting is this:

You can argue with the stats, but you cannot argue with the results. The results being points allowed.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

So, let\'s see if I have this right...our defense has held opponents to 20 points or less 9 times this year and our offense can\'t close the deal? Is that what we\'re saying? And if that is what we\'re saying then what seems the be the main problem on offense? We\'re definitely not scoring enough points to win and if the defense has been that good then why is our point production so bad? And why, with the year Deuce is having, does he have so few TD\'s with so much all-purpose yardage? Something does not mesh here. Anyone care to try and put their finger on it?

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

I think the defense has played better than I thought they would. My question for all of you is this. How many times did the offense leave the defense in terrible field position due to turnovers, costing them points?

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

The offense has definately let the team down this year. It\'s been a little bit of everything that has contributed to this. Brooks fumbling, receivers dropping passes, penalties, bad play calling, injuries. But, the defense has played well enough to win MOST of the games. For whatever reason, the offense has not delievered.

The offense has hurt the defense PLENTY of times with poor field position caused by turnovers.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

Very good point, Joe.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

This is Rick Venturi as quoted in the article:
So which team are the Saints preparing for this weekend, Jacksonville or the Jaguars?

;) I\'m guessing he was misquoted here, but it\'s still kind of funny.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

OK, I didn\'t read all of the posts in this thread, but I\'ll jump in anyway. Sorry if this has already been said.

The pass defense has gotten somewhat better this year, but that has little or nothing to do with our secondary or scheme. Here\'s why:

1. Last year we scored at will. Teams HAD to abandon the running game and throw on us to keep pace - that equated to greater exposure and more yards.

2. We can\'t stop ANYONE in the running game this year. With an offense that now struggles to score 20, teams can run, and they do it effectively. Besides, there is virtually no threat of getting burned by our defense, so the longer your offense is on the field eating up clock, the better. Teams DO run more - or at least more effectively against us, so they pass less.

3. Our front four are playing much better this year. That pressure directly effects the secondary. Our secondary is not very good, but if they only have to cover for 3 second, they can do that ocassionally. Pressure up front has made them look better.

4. Last year, stopping the run was the focus of the defense. Knight came up and played half safety, half linebacker. That often put him out of position in the passing game and translated into big plays when we only had three men in pass coverage. This year, we don\'t bring Bellamy or Jones up the same way we did with Knight. As a result, we have fewer big plays, but can\'t stop the run. In essence, last year we just asked teams to cut our heads off in one big chop. This year it\'s death by a thousand cuts. Either way, the defense is still a problem. It only looks like less of a problem b/c the offense has stunk it up so much. That makes the defense look better by association - when in fact, they\'re not all that much better.

That\'s my opinion anyway. The defense did get better, but not a lot better. I\'d still say they\'re playing in that 15th to 20th realm. If the offense was putting up 30+, and we were playing teams that don\'t stink (a la the 6 teams we\'ve played with losing records in the last 9 weeks - even the winning teams don\'t have very good offenses - see TB and Carolina), this D would be getting exposed more - and they\'d look a lot like the keystone cops we had out there last season.

Saints' 'D' gets passing grade
 

WhoDat -- I\'m not following your logic here. Read the two quotes above. First you say the scheme has nothing to do with it, then you go on to explain how the scheme has everything to do with it. Clearly Venturi scheme is focusing on stopping the pass and he has Tebucky Jones deep in the secondary to prevent the big play. So, your first statement was wrong and your second one is SOMEWHAT right.


That statement is wrong, or misleading at best. Teams do not run more effectively on us this year. Have you forgot how our run defense played last year? Also, teams aren\'t throwing more passes against us this year. At least not enough to explain why we are giving up 115-less yards per game this year.


I don\'t know about that. When a team is up by a large margin, that\'s when our defense could pin it\'s ears back and get after the QB. That\'s also the time when defenses force the majority of turnovers. I don\'t agree with this statement at all. At least how you are trying to equate it anyway.