A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Hmmm...Jake is drawing comparisons to Warner and Brady nowadyas.

Well, where is Warner now...his wife cries for him and he sucks!

Last year the Patriots didn't do crap and this year Brady rode the Patriot defense into the Super Bowl (kind of like Delhomme!)

HMMMM....DOESN'T SAY MUCH FOR DELHOMME DOES IT!!!

Good luck next season Jake....your gonna need it....the honeymoon'll be over and Aaron will be gunning for you!

Not to mention Deuce! Might as well chalk up two losses for next season Jake.

GET OUT OF OUR WAY CUZ THE SAINTS ARE MARCHING OVER YOUR !!!

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by ColdFusion]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

You are right the saints will pay back the panthers. Atlanta swept us last year and we return the favor this year ;-)

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Tom Brady has well over 30 wins, three straight trips to the playoffs, two Super Bowl appearances, at least one SB win, and an SB MVP in the last 3 years. I\'d say that\'s nice company to be in.

Warner, over a three year period before injuries hampered his play had three straight trips to the playoffs (over 30 wins), two Super Bowl appearances, one SB win, and was twice the League MVP.

Delhomme, in one year, has 13 wins as a starter (14 if you give him credit for the first game of the year), three playoff appearances, all wins, and is in the Super Bowl.

In three and a half years as a starter AB has not gotten to 30 wins yet. He has one playoff appearance, and one win. I\'d say everyone of those guys above has been more successful to date then Aaron Brooks.

I mean, Delhomme is drawing comparisons to Brady and that\'s bad? Brady is being compared to Montana right now. Yeah, I\'ll take comparisons to Brady and Warner any day over comparisons to Blake and Warren Moon. There are two good QBs who never won anything. And last I checked, the object is to win, not have pretty stats to quote.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

WhoDat --

As I am casually reading your post, it sure seems you are crediting WINS and LOSSES to the QB, with no reguard to coaches, defense, special teams, and the rest of the TEAM.

Furthermore, you seem to be doing this to make a case that Delhomme is a great QB that is more responsible for the Panthers\' success than anyone. Do you deny any of that? If you do deny it, then I would ask you to go back and read your post. Be honest here WhoDat.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

How about, rather than saying, \"Do I deny that\", you ask if you are mistaken or have misconstrued my post, because that is the case.No where did I say that the QB was responsible for wins, nor did I say that Delhomme was great. Instead I compared their accomplishments both personally (things like MVP) and as part of a team.

You see, alsaints said that drawing comparisons to Warner and Brady is a bad thing. I am saying that those guys sure have won a lot of games. Not necessarily on their own, but winning is the purpose of the game right? If Brooks were on teams as successful as the Rams of the late 90\'s and early this century, or the Patties of the last few years, then some people on this board who already believe that he is the second coming of the messaih would be ready to rename the state Brooksonia.

Warner and Brady BOTH have more TEAM and PERSONAL accomplishments than most QBs in the league right now. To be compared to either is a good thing.

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by WhoDat]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

WhoDat --

True you didn\'t specifically say that. You did however only talk about QB\'s of specific teams as it relates to WIN/LOSSES, without mention of ANYone else on the team.

While we can split hairs about what you said, the \"message\" was that somehow comparing the win/loss record for 2 quarterbacks somehow suggest that one is the better leader or which one is more talented. How \'bout we look at Archie Manning\'s record and apply your litmus test?

You can\'t fool me, but nice try. ;)



[Edited on 28/1/2004 by BillyC]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Again, you\'re wrong. If that is what YOU are ASSUMING I mean by my comments, ASSUME away, but you can\'t take them for anymore then what was actually SAID. Again, I will tell you that you are MISCONSTRUING that message. Saying that a QB with more wins to his credit as a starter is more successful than a QB with fewer wins in as many or more starts is something EVERY sports analyst, scout, personnel manager, and fan does. If you want to argue, go ahead. YET AGAIN, at no time did I say that any of those quarterbacks were better leaders or more talented. Here\'s an idea, spend as much time reading what I post ofr what IT ACTUALLY SAYS as you spend trying to INFER meaning in my comments and you might start to actually hear what I\'m saying.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

It\'s entirely possible I took your post out of context, but not likely.

This is what I don\'t understand --

You said everyone of those guys have been more successful than Brooks? Agreed? Did you mean that their TEAMS had been more successful? Of course, if we follow your logic, we would have to say that all those teams runningbacks were more successful.

If you meant to say TEAM was more successful, I have corrected that for you at NO CHARGE. I do however accept donations. ;)

Read the \"spirit\" of your message more closely WhoDat. :P

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

They have been more successful than Brooks. Those guys are part of the team. You don\'t hear a lot of players yelling, \"The Panthers Won!\" after a win. You hear, \"We won.\" If you say we, you are including yourself. Thus, a player, as part of a team, can accept some level of responsibility for the win. We all do it Billy.

How can you say that Warner and Brady haven\'t been more successful than Brooks? Want to compare individual numbers? How many MVPs does Brooks have?

Billy, individual stats don\'t mean anything anyway. Don\'t believe me? Go ask Marino is he would give up all his records for a Super Bowl win. You say Peyton isn\'t good b/c he hasn\'t gotten there, despite his INCREDIBLE personal stats. If you think personal stats are more important than wins and losses, then I highly recommend that you stop calling players \"me-me\" type guys. But, if you want to challenge the validity of that statement, go right ahead. Let\'s compare their successes and failures. Want to do that? I dare you. :P

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by WhoDat]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

It\'s quite simple really. I DID NOT SAY THAT!!

Let\'s cut to the chase. Brooks has had helped his team win more than Jake Delhomme has helped his team win. Now, Jake\'s TEAM has helped him win more than Brooks TEAM has helped him win.

The truth has been spoken. And the truth shall set you free WhoDat :D

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by BillyC]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

And what makes you say that? It sure seems to me that the Panthers could have signed a big name guy in free agency. But they opted for a smart and consistent kid. Why? Maybe they feel that great play-making ability is less important to the TEAM at the QB position than is consistency or leadership. You think that Brooks\' ability to make plays makes him more helpful to his team than Jake. In that category you are correct. But I contend that Jake\'s consistency and leadership outweigh Brooks in that category. I believe intangibles are more important. You\'re like Haslett, drooling over physical gifts.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I have a question.

Whodat, specifically, without draggin\' out your stat bag or your contract argument or for that matter ANYTHING ELSE that you can use as a crutch, do you agree or disagree with that statement? It\'s a YES or NO answer. Can you do that?

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Once again, WhoDat misunderstands my post (and in this case I can see why....he has a valid argument).

What I meant was...Warner and Brady had their time in the sun (and Brady is getting a 2nd dose, but so did Warner and Brady rocked his house) and so is Jake. All the media hype around him will wane. In the end I am ABSOLUTELY NOT talking about numbers/statistics. Neither of those three (Kurt, Tom, or Jake....yes I am on first name basis with them...;-) was solely responsible for their championship seasons. Without the Carolina defense....they don\'t get this far. Without New Englands defense....they didnt in 2001 and dont this year get that far....Without Faulk, Bruce etc., Warner doesnt get that far.

It\'s about teams....these are teams that are in the Super Bowl. Our Saints players and coaches etc. need to learn from them and put together a great TEAM and we will succeed. With Brooks skills if he can get his head out of his arse and lead then we clobber everyone.

I guess I could make a short version and say I totally agree with BillyC here.

We have the skill players and if we can complete the TEAM factor we can have a dynasty....not some one hit wonder.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

alsaints113

Let me give you an interesting perspective on Jake Delhomme and quite possibly a little thought that might possibly have you cheering his name ... ;)

You are gonna see posters and fans on the streets that will say \"go Jake\" , \"see he can be a quarterback in the N.F.L.\", \"see what Jake has done in Carolina \".

Let\'s take a little trip to a Saints season of the past .

The following is a cut from many write ups of the 2002 season ending .

All throughout this late season collape , Haslett told fans and reporters \"Brooks was fine and he was not affected by the injury\" , despite obvious problems in throwing the ball .Shortly after as we all know Brooks would have surgery to repair the injury .

My personal favorite comment is when one reporter asked Haslett \" Did you ever consider putting Delhomme in \" ?? Haslett replies \" The thought had never crossed my mind \" , the thought never crossed his mind despite the fact that 60,000 plus Saints fans who paid to see the game were pinging Delhommes name off the back of Hasletts head like a battleship sonar looking for a submarine .It never crossed his mind , as banners hung from the Super Dome rails with Delhommes name on them , It never crossed his mind , as Brooks grimaced in obvious pain after every throw . It never crossed his mind as his own players began to play as though just going through the motions . Some of these players would later have to be purged from the system , Turley and Hand and others that might have begun to question Hasletts deire to win with that decision to play an injured Brooks rather then a healthy Delhomme . The replacement of these players could be factored into 2003 early season loses as part of the now famous Haslett \" They need time to gel \" Comments . A potential couple of wins the Saints could have used in the December play off run .

As Saints fans , we would like to believe and trust that the team that we spend our hard earned money on to see is doing the best they can to win , this includes the coaching staff and ownership , for some this trust was compromised at the end of 2002 . In 2003 the Saints faithful set out to watch their team do battle on the gridiron , setting record sales in the Super Dome . As 2003 started the Saints stumbled early and surprisingly the once not better then an injured quarterback Delhomme began to lead the opposing division rival Panthers team to victory after victory . Suddenly the questions started to appear \" How could he do it in Carolina and not have be able to do it in New Orleans \" ?

The name Jake Delhomme for some means we want answers . The name Jake Delhomme for some means we do not believe you gave us 100% in 2002 . For some the name Jake Delhomme represents the possible return to the play offs , that some had hoped for in 2002 .

As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential .

I myself am gonna cheer on Jake Delhomme as I watch him in the Super Bowl Sunday and hope that he does great and the Panthers win , so that I can get an 8x10 of Jake Delhomme holding up the Lombardi trophy .

Hasletts going to get that 8x10 with the following writen across the front :

The thought never crossed your mind ???
Don\'t let it happen again
From
A Saints Fan





[Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintz08]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Why does the Brooks / Delhomme debate continue? In order to have fair comparisons the QBs need to operate behind the same O line under the same circumstances. In the case of Brooks/Delhomme there is very little data along these lines. The only game that some data can be used is the 2002 season in the Saints vs Baltimore game. Brooks was replaced by Delhomme with about 10 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. at the time the Saints were leading 20-7. The stats are as follows: Passing Brooks 9of 25 for 123 yards and 1 TD, Delhomme 7of 8 passes for 103 yards , rushing Brooks 3 for 11 yards, Delhomme 1 for 6 yards. Brooks lead the team for 20 points and Delhomme lead the team for 17 points. the Saints went on to win 37 - 25. Prior to that game Delhomme had limited play in the TB game completing 1 pass for 10 yards and one incompletion of a Hail Mary pass in the Panthers game in Charlotte.
Now, I know that anyone can take stats and manipulate them to support their view all I can say is these are the stats, have at em.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Even if Brooks was playing behind Carolina\'s O-line, it wouldn\'t matter much. Brooks would still back out of the protection and refuse to step up and deliver the football. Even if that guy played behind a line of 1st ballot hall of famers, he would still back out of the protection, leaving himself vulnerable to the edge rusher.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

saitnz08, Up until a few days ago I was cheering Delhomme and one could consider me a Delhommeite/Brooks basher. Well I had an epiphany which is the central point to all my recent posts. I don\'t give a crap about Jake anymore and am tired of hearing about him. The Saints are my team and so Brooks is my man. Sure Jake is a good QB but he\'s not ours. I want the Panthers to get the crap knocked out of them and Jake to have a bad game so that all the Delhomme talking will cease. As Saints fans we need to move on and support our team in hopes that next season (I know, us Saints fans say that a lot) we will be where the Panthers are. We have a great team with great players. If we shore up our defense and gel and become the team we should have been the last three years, we can beat anyone. If I had it my way, both the Panthers and Patriots would lose and Tagliabue would give us the Lombardi. :-) I support nobody but the Saints....and Jake is no longer a Saint.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

I can tell , the questions still remain .

If is the central point of life , how we live it is based upon it .

If Haslett had put Delhomme in for an injured Brooks , we might have had a chance to play for that trophy.

As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential .

The thought never crossed your mind ???
Don\'t let it happen again
From
A Saints Fan

For you the message of Delhomme could read , Do not let the teams talent go unreached like you did with Jake Delhomme , do not let another player from the Saints go play for another coach and reach a higher level then he did while you were coaching him .

Geaux Jake ....

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

08 --

Will you be here after the Super Bowl? I have a VERY strong feeling that JAKE is going to stink it up in the Super Bowl and I hope you are logged on to B&G so we can discuss ol\' Jake.


I\'m looking foward to it -- :P

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Billy, I hope you\'ll be here too if he doesn\'t.

Oh by the way, I really don\'t care who wins. We have Louisiana boys on both teams.

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

If that is the same feeling you had about the Saints season earlier this year . I am gonna double my Super Bowl bets .... :P

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

Joe, I\'ll be here either way as I always am. Remember how everyone always bashed Brooks after every loss? A little pay back is in order, don\'t ya think?

Hey, I\'m just kidding now. As a matter a fact, I\'m always kidding. I really hope no one takes me joking around as being serious.

I just want to make sure everyone knows the deal. We got some sensetive members here and I\'m down with that. I\'m a team guy all the way...LMAO.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

LMAO!!! 8-8?!?! Whodat, you\'re nuts! 12-4 at least! How can you possibly say that they\'ll get worse? How can you say they players they signed aren\'t good, you haven\'t even seen them play! ROTFL.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

And yet before they sign a SINGLE FA or draft a soul you yourself have predicted they\'ll be what next year...what was it...11-5 at the worst? Amazing! ;)

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

WhoDat --

What was you\'re prediction for the Bucs this year? Hmmm..... Help a brother out, \'cause I\'m having a little trouble remembering.

He wants you to think that because I picked the Saints to win more games than they did that somehow he is more knowledgeable. But, never do you hear WhoDat bring up his predictions that were WAY off the mark.

Kinda makes ya wonder..............DON\'T IT? WhoDat wrong.......NEVER!!

[Edited on 30/1/2004 by BillyC]

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

You said it, not me Billy.

BS ALERT, BS ALERT. I believe my prediction was 10-6 or 11-5. Write it down Saintfan - I\'ll bet you. And one other thing, I\'ve said that is subject to change. I threw it out there with the disclaimer (originally) that it is way too early to tell anything yet.

A word about Delhomme comparisons
 

As long as Brooks is the Saints QB, the comparisons with Delhomme will go on...

..but it is not just about the 2002 season, or the 2003 season, for that matter.

This started way back in the 2000 offseason.