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It was not the famous front-four that kept the Panthers in that game,

It was not their punishing running back that kept them in that game,

It was Jake Delhomme that kept them in that game,

Amazing. This is his first year.

I don't like the idea of playing against him next year.

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Yep all the excuses made on this board about Delhomme\'s success this year being b/c of his o-line, his RB, or his defense just don\'t float for this game. Carolina\'s defense was swiss cheese, they got impaled, they just blew the 2nd half. Jake had an awesome game as well as Steve Smith. Kudos to them. It\'s too bad they didn\'t get to win.

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I\'ll tell you what, when Jake was crap during the season his team came through. Likewise, when Jakes team was crap he showed up to play big time ball. This is what we want for the Saints....a complete TEAM. The New England Patriots are obviously the best example of TEAM.

Unless someone is blind, I agree Jake is the reason the Panthers were ever in this game. Once he shook off the jitters he came out firing in the second half. Congrats to him and his team for their NFC championship and losing effort in the Super Bowl.

Let\'s hope the Saints and Jim Haslett can learn from these two teams and give us something to be proud of in \'04.

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He kept the wrong quarterback ???

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I didn\'t say that....find where I said Haslett kept the wrong QB.

Maybe your user name shoud be changed to ILiveInThePast08

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As FrenzyFan said, this thread is not meant to be a debate and my post was not put there for someone to start a debate. Get over it....Jake is a Panther.

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How about , when yours reads : atlastIhave learnedhowtoreadsaintsposts113

Now these little things ??? represent a question and are called , question marks .

So let\'s simplify your post for you

What could Haslett have learned from either the Panthers or the Patriots ???

How about :

Here is a cut from the article written earlier today :

So dang easy to say a year after Delhomme, eager for a chance to start in the NFL, left the Saints and helped lead the Carolina Panthers to the Super Bowl. Painfully easy to say after watching Aaron Brooks continue his quixotic play at quarterback. Of course, there\'s another reason it\'s easy to say.

Because it\'s true.

Yes, it is.

The Saints would have been better off with Jake.

Seems simple enough .... ;)




[Edited on 2/2/2004 by saintz08]

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Freedom of speech is a constitutional amendment , better idea deal with it ... ;)

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I also thought thought the saint made the right choice. Jake played such a great game against a pretty good defense that I must admitt it look like the saints made the wrong choice. I loved how angry he became at recevier when he drop a pass, also his face reaction when they lost(no damn smile on his face). I have seen the light and Jake is the man. Now that he is w/ the panther I wish him the best but it is time to stop crying over spilled milk.

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\"Now that he is w/ the panther I wish him the best but it is time to stop crying over spilled milk.\"

That\'s the point I have been trying to make all along.

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April brings new hope to some Saints fans .

And that hope is Eli Manning ..... :P

Delhommes greatest achievement in New Orleans , may have been to prove Haslett is clueless as a talent evaluator ..... ;)

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I agree Jake is a better QB but by no means will I try to to rebuild my offense for Eli. Simply, I don\'t think by giving up on Brooks & Stallworth to be in position to draft Eli will be a wise decision. Just cuz Delhoumme might be a better QB is not a good enough reason to get rid of Brooks.

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If we get rid of anybody besides draft picks in order to draft up and get Eli....I\'m pretty sure that next season we will be having this same type of Jake/Aaron debate but with somebody else. If we\'ve learned anything, it is not to give up on what we have because we may regret it. I for one really don\'t feel like regretting anything in \'04. I want to see the Saints do what the Panthers couldn\'t....win a Lombardi trophy.

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Not sure you would have to rebuild the offense . Eli brings some rookie mistakes with him but he has a good understanding of the system . Certainly the option of audiblizing at the line without giving the opposing teams defensive end a free shot comes to mind .The utilization of the touch pass comes to mind . Eli , could potentially open up a new chapter in the offenseive playbook , Mc Carthy has been unable to open with Brooks .

Drop Brooks on the Chargers and swap the firsts , toss in a second which the Saints have 2 of and to sweeten the deal if necessary add a second for next year . Then get a top free agent corner , make the kept second an ILB and build defense from there .

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Really? You think?

Knight (\'02) - Supposedly not as goos a year as his Pro Bowl year in \'01.
80 tackles, 24 assists, 2 sacks, 5 INTs, 6 passes defensed.

Bellamy (\'03) - His best year ever - no doubt.
77 tackles, 17 assists, 1 sack, 3 INTs, 9 passes defensed

Or shall we compare him to Tebucky (\'03)??
51 tackels, 18 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed

Hmm, so Haslett dumped a solid safety and paid a ton to get a guy who didn\'t come close to producing Knight-type numbers. Well maybe it\'s just an isolated event.

Clemons (\'01 - OLB PRO BOWL)
75 tackels, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed

Clemons (\'02 - ILB - apparently such a bad year that we needed to ship him out of NO)
58 tackles, 24 assists, .5 sacks, 0 INT, 9 passes defensed.

Hodge - (\'02 - best year as a Saint)
57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 4 passes defensed

Rodgers (\'03 - his best year since \'00)
57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed.

Smith (\'03 - as MLB)
44 tackles, 16 assists, 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 passes defensed.

Ruff (\'03)
50 tackles, 19 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 3 passes defensed.


So Clemons, had better production than any other LB by far as an OLB. Haslett, not Clemons, decides to move Clemons inside. Clemons isn\'t as good at MLB b/c he\'s suited to be an OLB. DO we move him bakck to where he was a Pro Bowler a year before? Nope, we let him leave in free agency.

Want to look at the Glover comparison? Roaf? Turley?

And I\'ll bet all the dissenters are going to bring up Joe Johnson. GO ahead - he\'s been injured more than Howard. If you give Howard a pass then you have to give Johnson a pass as well.

Or we can look at the players Haslett has brought in to fill holes. Anyone want to look at their production? Let\'s start with the TE position. LOL.

Haslett? Not a good evaluator of talent? NO!

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Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching?

At one point in the first half, Jake was 1 of 9 and his running game was being stuffed at the line.

Where are the props for the Panthers defense? They had stopped NE early and forced a FG try that was missed. Later they stopped NE and forced another FG try which was blocked. There\'s some special teams effort for ya! The D didn\'t allow a TD until Brady threw one with about 3 minutes to go in the second. At the end of the half it was 14-10. Sure Jake had thrown a TD, but the special teams got them the ball on their 47 after the patriots scored to make it 14-7. Then S. Davis busted a nice run to put the Panthers in FG position - and they converted. Surely you can\'t attribute that to Jake.

Jake did one heck of a job leading his team back from 21-10 and getting the lead, but the defense and the special teams kept the Panthers in this game early while Jake looked more like a \"fake\".

Like I said, he played a great 32 minutes, but he doesn\'t deserve ALL the glory. Just think how many scores they didn\'t make while he was going 1 for 9.

Just calling it the way it was....

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Scotty,
I am noy saying he is PERFECT or the best nfl QB. He just played the patriot\'s defense better than ALL the QB that they faced. Panther\'s running game was shut down. Defense was being worn out. Jake deserve ALL the credit that he received, cuz this would have been a blow out. Comments on Jake don\'t make Brook a better or worst QB. I am Brook fan but I will give credit to Jake cuz he deserve it.

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You mean we are giving Jake too much credit for being the quarterback of a team that clearly loves to run the with Davis , now Davis goes 9 for 19 yards in the first half and finishes the day at 13 for 49 yards with 22 of them on one play .

Jake with no running game against a top 10 defense puts up 29 points .

Hmmm , no credit deserved .

Any idea how many points Brooks put up against the Patriots the last time they played ??? ;)

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Ai2k4w, you said:

Now correct me if I\'m wrong, but I never mentioned or even alluded to the Saints or any other team or Brooks or any other player in the NFL besides those that were on the two teams that played in the superbowl. Why must you bring up AB? I was simply discussing yesterday\'s game. I didn\'t say Jake didn\'t have a good game. I said the rest of his team deserves more credit. He didn\'t do it alone as some were implying and others were saying explicitly.

Saintz08:

Again, what does Brooks have to do with my comments? I never said anything even close to being a comparison between AB and Jake. PLus, I never said Jake didn\'t deserve credit for his performance. I said he doesn\'t deserve ALL the credit. I said that if not for the D and the special teams in the first half the Panthers would have been hopelessly out of the game.

Gator...

All of those organizations will agree with me that Jake had a horrible 27-28 minutes to open the game. Can there really be any question about that? I gave him credit for turning it around. What more do you want?

Why is it that you can root for delhomme and that\'s fine, but if I say he had a bad first half you declare that I need to reexamine the game of football?

First, I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned the Saints or AB. I only discussed the game yesterday. Second, I don\'t think someone who is constantly being edited for content and who continuously breaks the rules of the forum should have the right to proclaim another as being classless. I hope your decorum towards the court is better than it is towards the members of this forum because, if not, you\'re going to need lots of money for contempt fines.

But, hey, you were right about one thing...it is a free country.

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ScottyRo,

You\'re wasting your breath. I made comments that attempted people to get behind the Saints and forget about Jake (we have to move on people). And like you when I made comments that were not meant to start a debate and supported neither Delhomme or Brooks, it was turned into a debate. In fact I posted a congratulations to Jake and gave him his just dues for a fine performance yesterday and other comments I made were thrown back at me. It seems every sentence I type is interpreted as some type of Delhomme sucks and Brooks is God statement by these same people. In short, they love Delhomme, are narrow minded, and will not listen to whatever you say. They only have one agenda....tell everyone how stupid and crappy the Saints are for letting Jake go and Aaron Brooks is horrible and if you even hint to the contrary...get ready for their smart ass comments. Now I know why BillyC was kicked out temporarily way back when (he thinks much like me). I for one am staying away until people can learn how to discuss matters in a more open minded fashion.

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Some just see it the way the N.F.L. Super Bowl reporter notes it .....

Delhomme\'s performance will go down in the history books as one of the greatest ever in a losing effort. However, it\'s the winning team that\'s most always remembered first.

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/7055821

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08, you can\'t even admit that if not for the Panthers\' D and special teams then Jake wouldn\'t have had a chance to make it so close? I\'m not trying to make this complicated.

Again, people were saying that Jake did not have a defense to lean on in that game. That is not accurate. The D kept them in it during the first half when Jake was not playing well and came up with a huge interception late in the game. Additionally, Stephen Davis and D. Foster each had more rushing yards than the entire Patriots offense. That is some good defense considering the Panthers\' Rb\'s weren\'t exactly running free all game.

Now, go back read my original post. I said don\'t give Jake ALL the credit, but that he played a great 32 minutes.

And, btw, your N.F.L. Reporter had this to say about the first half:

Sounds a lot like what I had to say, but you just overlooked that part since it didn\'t mesh with your views, right?

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gatorman, another problem with forums, as it is with any \"chat\" medium is that you can\'t hear the tone tone of the poster\'s voice. Therefore it is hard to recognize if the person is being a d**k or not. I can\'t speak for Scotty but I have become a bit perturbed at everything I say turning into a QB debate. As I said several times now, Jake rocked the house last night (at least in the second half) and I only hope that can give Brooks the motivation he needs to perform and get us to the big one.....You know, the NFC South has represented the NFC in the last two Super Bowls....I think it\'s our turn (certainly not the Falcons....that\'s the last thing a Saints fan should say ;-))

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I am not going to come out and say Delhomme a first year starter for the Carolina Panthers in his first year and first Super Bowl appearance played flawlessly against a top 10 defense that had been to the Super Bowl before .

Now considering , those Panthers are known for their shutdown defense and their ground game , which most will say got them to the Super Bowl . The quarterback Jake Delhomme was given considerable less credit then he deserved .

Especially considering the fact on how a soon to be free agent , potentially highest paid player in the N.F.L. and top rated passer in the A.F.C. quarterback named Peyton Manning fared against this same defense 2 weeks ago .

Manning finished 23 of 47 for 237 yards, with one touchdown and four interceptions.
Delhomme finished 16 of 33 passes for 323 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions.

No , maybe your just underestimating what the man was up against ..... ;)

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Gator,

I don\'t want an apology. As long as you stay within the rules, you\'re ok by me. Ocassionally, some people here get offended too easlily. I am not one of them.

I believe that I should be able to use what you said about my argument, what you\'ve said in the past, and how you\'ve acted in the past to defend my points and my position and attack your weaknesses.

So, as long as you stay within the rules of this forum, feel welcome to zing me as hard as you can because I am going to do the same to you as well as anyone else that posts here. That\'s what great debate is about, i.e., promoting your strengths while undermining your opponents\' weaknesses.

Cool?

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08,

Of course, not because you can\'t especially looking at the first half. Remember, I said he had a \"great\" second half. That\'s not tearing Jake down.

All I am trying to get across is that people on this thread were saying that Jake didn\'t have a defense or a running game to rely on. I dispute that because Jake only had one good drive in the first half. If the defense was playing as poorly as people here are saying, then the Panthers would have been down by at least 20 at the half. That wasn\'t the case. I think I\'m giving Jake exactly the credit he deserves.

Once again, I don\'t think this has anything to do with any other QB than Brady and Delhomme. However, lest you forget, Manning a \"dome\" QB was playing in the snow at the Patriots home field. Jake didn\'t exactly have those elements to contend with in the superbowl.

To the contrary, I am taking a fair and balanced (copyright, Fox News) look at the game. He pulled off perhaps the greatest performance turn around in superbowl history, but he didn\'t do it alone. While he was screwing up, his defense was keeping it close.

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While the title was \"Not a debate\", it is one. :)

I agree completely with the statement that Jake played a bad first half. However, anyone reasonable is compelled to look at all of the circumstances in a situation. I think that \'08 brings some valid points to the table. The Patriots defense has made all walks and types of QBs look simply awful this season. Is that an indication of the prowess of the defense or bad performance by the QBs in question? Considering that it was consistently so, do just accept that some magical force causes bad performances by every QB that plays against the Patriots. I don\'t.

That being the case, in my opinion Jake deserves all the credit the fans, sportwriters, radio-announcers, and the esteemed ( ;) ) members of this board can heep upon him. Other QBs in similar situation NEVER RECOVERED or found ways to exploit the Patriots. Jake did. Did he do it absolutely alone? No, of course not. Did he do what his peers (other NFL QBs) could not? Yes, he did.

I don\'t know if Jake will continue to play this game to the level he did in the Superbowl. This might be one of those \"magical\" seasons where a player steps up and plays so far above his abiilties, it lifts an entire team up.

If he does..... as I said in the intro I have no desire to play against him this season.

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FF, you\'ve made some valid points about Jake\'s performance and they\'ve been made by 08 and others as well. I don\'t disagree that he put on a great performance for one drive in the first half and most of the second half.

However, you made a statement when you posted this thread that I just have to disagree with:

The fact is that in the first half the Panthers\' D rose to the occasion on several drives even though the Patriots consistently received good field position because the Panthers\' Offense wasn\'t moving the ball. The first 27 minutes of the game belonged to the Patriots, yet the score was 0-0 or 7-0 after their first score.

Their front four held the Patriots Rb\'s to almost nothing and even though Brady was putting up yards, they ended many drives without giving up points. If that\'s not relying on your D to keep it close while you\'re playing badly, I don\'t know what is.

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AND, if he continues to play with that kind of magic and luck, then, no, I don\'t look forward to facing him in 2004 either.

The NFC South is going to be one of the strongest divisions in the league. The last two NFC Champs have come from the NFC South. It\'s almost a shame because the Saints have one of the best teams they\'ve ever assembled, yet the competition in the division seems as strong as ever.

Let\'s hope the saying \"what doesn\'t kill you, makes you stronger\" will be the Saints mantra for the coming years instead of \"we got killed.\"