The debate about MVP
 

An a$$-clown wrote that Brees' taking the passing record from Marino should have an asterisk by it because the rules are now skewed to favor the offense/QBs,WRs.

I find it ironic that no one said that when Peyton Manning threw for 49 TDs, or when Brady broke it with 50 the next year; but when Brees breaks a 20+ year-old passing record that some of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL never even got close to, suddenly the greatness of it is suddenly watered down!

He's a Saint. They will never get on the wagon. To me it makes it so much better when we prove their sorry a$$ wrong. But it still makes me mad because of them being unfair. Just keep the faith!!

Same old thing that a few years ago they did to Marino's record. Some folks just don't like their record to be broken. If Marino doesn't have a problem with it, then neither should anyone else. And we all know that if it was sooooo easy to break the record, then why has it stood for 27 years?! Let the a$$wipes be the a$$wipes of the world. Brees broke the record, now learn to deal with it.

NFL Live just made a point of mentioning that Matt Stafford and Tom Brady also went over the 5K passing mark.

Didn't hear any mention of asterisk for them and they didnt even break the record!!

Any one else feel that Matt Flynn's performance the other day helped Brees' chances?

I think it should probably be a co-MVP situation for the regular season, but I'll just settle for Drew being SuperBowl MVP again...

I feel that it should. I know that it won't. Sadly, the league flatly refuses to seek my opinion on the matter. :mrgreen:

DONKEY PENIS!!

I keep saying - screw the League MVP - I want to see Drew get his 2nd SUPER BOWL MVP

Brees won't get it but I look at it this way, SB MVP, he already earned that title playing against the best of the best and has an opportunity to do it again. At the end of the day, I'd take a SB MVP anyday over a RS MVP.

Still, they are looking over some of Rogers shortcomings, like being sacked 12 more times. It would have been more if he'd played the last game considering Flynn was put down 5 times. Also running, Rogers runs because he has to, to the tune of 5X a game he just takes off. That's not an a good thing. Brees has more picks but that's because he plays the position of QB, not RB and not all those picks are entirely on him. What they are saying is all of Brees's records are impressive but not impressive enough. Get outta here..He broke several records, not just Marino's record.

Drew Brees

Completion PCT 71.2 %
Pass Yards 5,476
TD/INT 46-14
YPA 8.33
Att/Com 657/468

Aaron Rodgers

Completion PCT 68.3 %
Pass Yards 4,643
TD / INT 45-6
YPA 9.4
Att /Com 502/343

I don't think tipped balls for an interception should be a part of the evaluation unless a defender tips the ball and another defender recovers. Our own receivers tipping the ball happened many times this year to Brees. Need to see if I can find the number.

And, even though Rodgers threw, on average, passes for one more yard than Brees, Brees threw 125 more caught passes than Rodgers. Brees also threw for 833 more yards than Rodgers. This would obviously open him up to more interceptions.

To me the quarterback who has the most balls thrown accurately -- in a league where passing skill is obviously getting teams into the playoffs -- wins the argument for me.

I also think how many sacks or fumbles a quarterback takes should enter into the evaluation, because I see pocket-presence, mobility, ball security and elusiveness as important quarterback attributes. But his O-line's comparative ability to protect him and his center's ball skills would have to be part of the analysis. I'm having trouble finding/interpreting these numbers for Brees vs. Rodgers this year. Maybe someone else can help.

What's wrong with Drew getting both? :D

I completely agree Papz.

Rodgers will get the nod, IMO due to his TD to INT ratio and the overall record but the true "Most Valuable Player" to their team is Drew Brees.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Brees lost the 2008 and 2009 MVP because of the Manning love, even though Brees beat Manning on every stat.
So, how is Rogers even in the mix? seeing that finely just kicked his but as a 2nd QB, apparently the talent is so good in GB anyone can QB. If its about stats, why didn't Brees win both years ?

Unfortunately that brings Brady into the mix. If your really looking for MVP, he is working with way less than GB or NO.

YAC and the RB

Saints
158 completions to RBs for 1199 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
GB
73 completions to RBs for 598 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
Pats
34 completions to RBs for 248 YAC.......( above )
Total YAC for each team (using top 300 YAC players)

Pats....2387 YAC
NO.....2299 YAC
GB.....1889 YAC

NO is more a short game team....2 RBs in top 15 YAC
Pats are so top heavy (4) in their weapons (2088 )YAC)...3 stars
Rodgers receivers has less YAC stars.....4 in the #23-#59 range


Saints are a amazing short field team, and based on 8 yards. Our QB's 1st responsibility when passing is to make 8, if another opportunity opens up he will bomb it down field. At least in SP mind, if you don't have a short pass/run game, you can be stopped.

Isn't it more applicable to figure out who is the best game manager?
YAC is interesting, but not understanding how a QB that throws 2 40 yard passes, and ends with a field goal, is better than a QB that short passes, screens, and places the ball perfectly for 15 plays, and gets a touchdown.

I would pick the second one. Rogers is a bomb machine

Plus throwing bombs relies heavily on receiver talent. Any of the 3 QB's in question can chuck it up to Megatron. Thats not talent, its just distance. And what happens when you cover that option ? Suddenly, and maybe what happen with KC and GB, your forced to find your short game, and beat a #1 defense, like ravens, by reading its weaknesses and carving it up, but your not good at it. So, GB lost.

Brees is the best manager in the game, but Brady doesn't have near the weapons we or GB has. So who is MVP

I think Matt Flynn just proved who the real MVP is.

I thought this was an astute analysis of Saints O-strategy vs. GBs & Lions O-strategy. GB/Lions have little or no run game and throw bombs (this is definitely true of the the Lions and less so, but also true of GB). The Saints read defenses and start carving them up with a variety of play types -- and when Brees sees a broken coverage down-field, bang! This is also probably why Brees' completion % is higher than Rodgers' even though Brees threw many more passes than Rodgers.

I thought the point about reliance on receiver talent, in terms of the MVP award, was also right on target.

But, what occurs to me about the MVP award, is that we don't know what criteria they are using to make the award, so, to me, it is almost impossible to make the right argument. I think, like you said, about Peyton Love versus Brees stats in 2008 and 2009, it just seems very subjective to me.

Brees MVP, no doubt.

No argument, just give it to him!

(And Flynn's performance absolutely SHOULD hurt Rodgers chances, not that he should win it anyway!)

Hell, I'd give it to Peyton Manning before Rodgers.

Who is the Most Valuable or the most Popular? If it's the MPP then give it to Rogers. But if it's the MVP, then give it to Brees.

Don't think so? Check the salaries at the beginning of next season, regardless of what happens the rest of the way.

So here's a question, if they aren't going to announce the MVP until the week of the SB, am I to assume that is when it will be voted?

If so, how awesome would it be for Drew to outshine Rodgers in the conference game? I'd say his chances would go way up.

Thats where they stick their neck out. They voted yesterday (I think) so the MVP has already been decided.

Personally I couldn't care less about who wins the NFL MVP.

Generally speaking I agree with this, but Drew is so damned deserving, and he's already been robbed for MVP multiple times.

He'd never say so, but I'm sure it's something he'd like to achieve.

Yeah, its exactly why Brees has a much better completion record than Rogers. But, factor in could any of the other 2 QB's throw that many passes that accurately . I don't think so.
No one has ever done 70.1%, and Brees broke his own record this year. He is amazingly accurate.

I would say the most accurate QB I have ever seen in my life.

It is subjective and confusing. I think most fans don't even give MVP credence anymore, because it has no structure or logic. Most forums I am on of opposing teams debated and thought Brees should be MVP in 2008, 2009, because his stats were much better.
And most sports stats guys agree that Brees has been the best overall QB for 5 years now, not Brady, Manning, Warner, etc.. (well except Bradys 2007 season). But out of all of them Brees still doesn't have a single MVP. I think that is an amazing over site , and I think because Drew plays for the Saints, and not a Dynasty team he has been shunned a bit.

Yep, its amazing when they look back and see that Drew was the best overall QB for so long and never got MVP. It should shame the the voters. Think , if we win our 2nd SB and he still doesn't have a MVP after dominating the Stats sense 2006? That makes the voters look very stupid.

Has he really been the best? I think Manning and Brady might have something to say about that.

Brees would have three MVP awards by now if he played for a Big Market team or, for that matter, any team on the East Coast.

yes he has been, look over the leader boards for single-season, you will be astonished at how many times Drews name is in the 1-5. If he's not on top of comp % he's on top of QB rating.

2011 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards - Pro-Football-Reference.com

click on "Previous Season" from this link and look for Brees, its amazing. He blows Manning out of the water. Some argue his 2007 deserved MVP.

This is soooo true, but thank goodness he doesn't.

3 MVP awards and we wouldn't be able to afford him this offseason...

True but NOT affording Drew ISN'T an option.

This is what often gets overlooked: the pundits and media types did not pick Brees right out the gate to be a success: he just happened, when he wasn't supposed to happen. Therefore they will continue to overlook him for MVP, and make these inane "needs an asterix" type comments, and will even continue to slyly leave him out of conversations about great QBs where he obviously should be included....because acknowledging Brees' accomplishments, does not reflect the spotlight back on them, the media, where they feel it belongs.

What do Brady, Manning and Rodgers all have in common among them, that Brees does not. I'll tell you: they all began their careers in such a fashion that the media was able to jump right on board, after their first impressive year, and say "Look how great they are! We told you so first!" But Brees' early career is muddled; the media and sports writers can't say to the public that they knew it, and were his champion all along; they can't say they were "right" about Brees, because they were ALL clearly dead wrong about him and wrote him off. So I say that Brees will NEVER get the accolades from the big media complex, the kind of praise that they give to Brady and Rodgers and Manning. Because his story is not part of THEIR story, where the spotlight gets reflected back onto them, the media.

Here's the way I see it. in 2009 Brees lost the MVP to Manning, even tho he had better stats. They tried to make up for this by giving him "Offensive Player of the Year". So, why not do the same thing this year? Give Brees his due and let him have the MVP. Rodgers can be Offensive Player of the Year.

Also, I wonder if Sproles will get any MVP votes. He did have the most all-purpose yards of anyone EVER. That's pretty valuable...

Drew Brees*

*Anyone who can make the Saints SB Champs is the QB of the Decade!