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-   -   You be spags, fix our defense!!!! (https://blackandgold.com/saints/40942-you-spags-fix-our-defense.html)

alleycat_126 02-03-2012 08:00 AM

You be spags, fix our defense!!!!
 
If it breaks it can be fixed. Our defense is broken. You fix it? Be Spags

Danno 02-03-2012 08:07 AM

Start with stressing fundamentals.

I'd strive to be the team with the least amount of broken/missed tackles.

As far as personnel, I'd take the Finks approach. Build from the front toward the back. DT, DE, ILB, OLB.

Mardigras9 02-03-2012 09:14 AM

Fresh start in training camp. No job is a given.

subguy 02-03-2012 09:58 AM

Be the ball...create offensive opportunities

saintfan 02-03-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subguy (Post 375505)
Be the ball...

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...9aHr6R-vekAGln

Speedy Ron 02-03-2012 12:58 PM

man i would hate to have his job with the lack of talent we got.

biloxi-indian 02-03-2012 01:18 PM

Evaluate personnel on defense.
Evaluate coaches on defense.
Determine SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats)
Insure the strengths are fully taken advantage of in new scheme.
Get rid of weaknesses.
What opportunities exist to improve defense.
Determine what threats of player departure exist due to cap space.
Evaluate scouting reports on possible draft choices.
Determine which draft prospects fit the scheme to be implmeneted.
Prepare for draft.
Prepare to install base during OTA's.

Boy, this DC job is tiring! :)

halloween 65 02-03-2012 01:24 PM

Cut the dead weight, get a few free agents fimiliar with his system, draft 2 DT's and a LB.

Euphoria 02-03-2012 02:21 PM

Yes I like the Finks appraoch as well...

GOOD NEWS!!! We actually are decent and can be damn good in the secondary.

So starting up front is the way to go... DE and OLB first 4 positions I would address.

SaintsBro 02-03-2012 02:43 PM

Start the season with a defensive team meeting, watching the last 4:02 of the 49ers game over again, in real time. Include all the footage of the 49ers celebrating and their stupid flags running across the field and Vernon Davis crying at the end.

Then go through selected plays from that entire game with the clicker, and point out in slow motion, ONE key mistake made at a different time in the game, by EVERY individual defensive player (meaning those who still have a contract with the Saints at the beginning of training camp). Tell them, look, it's not any one guy who lost that game, it's ALL you guys who could be better.

Tell them no job is a given. Nobody is safe. Everybody is on notice. You either perform or you are out of here. We will cut you, bench you, or trade you to someplace you really don't wanna go

Believe it or not, I actually feel really pretty confident, that whatever remaining pieces and players are left of this defense, next year, even borderline weak links, will look and feel and play A LOT better when they GET A FIRE LIT UNDER THEM, and realize they have a new coach to impress, who has nothing invested in them, and if they get their manhood insulted a little bit and realize they are back to square one of fighting for their jobs. I think people will be surprised.

SapperSaint 02-03-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 375534)
Cut the dead weight, get a few free agents fimiliar with his system, draft 2 DT's and a LB.

I like this. But... I would draft two DE and a LB. Pick up a BPA at DT in FA. I like the 4 DE front line scheme. Not an every down scheme, but very effective when G's and T's are used to just pushing and shoving, then they get in front of a manipulating DE.

Tackling has got to be a number one priority. NOT STRIPPING THE BALL! "Love Taps" don't cut it in the NFL. Bring in John Lynch and teach our Safeties how to hit. Safeties need to be the guys who deliver bone crushing hits.

Bring in Deion for Training Camp to teach our CB's how to play the position.

I would train the defense as if they were learning it from day 1. Our guys need to unlearn what they have learned, while under G.W.:cool:

UK_WhoDat 02-03-2012 03:30 PM

OK guys. You are allowed to tackle.

Speedy Ron 02-03-2012 04:29 PM

one good thing is that he played against our garbage d so he probably has an outsider/ game preparers idea of our weaknesses. not that its too hard to find our weaknesses. i know most of them and i am a douche

halloween 65 02-03-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapperSaint (Post 375551)
I like this. But... I would draft two DE and a LB. Pick up a BPA at DT in FA. I like the 4 DE front line scheme. Not an every down scheme, but very effective when G's and T's are used to just pushing and shoving, then they get in front of a manipulating DE.

Tackling has got to be a number one priority. NOT STRIPPING THE BALL! "Love Taps" don't cut it in the NFL. Bring in John Lynch and teach our Safeties how to hit. Safeties need to be the guys who deliver bone crushing hits.

Bring in Deion for Training Camp to teach our CB's how to play the position.

I would train the defense as if they were learning it from day 1. Our guys need to unlearn what they have learned, while under G.W.:cool:

I can see what your seeing about the DE's but the push up the middle has stunk for a few years , my thinking is with 2 DT's pushing the pocket it should make our speed rushers much, much better and with Romeus in the mix this year I think we are set at DE, now Avril would be nice but I don't think we have a chance at him. A MLB or OLB I could definatly see in FA or the draft. But the MLB needs to have some weight and speed, a thumper so to speak. I just want up-grades at these positions, not what we have now.

subguy 02-03-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 375522)

NANANANANA NANANANANA DAAAAAA fffffooooooo

mapcow 02-03-2012 09:30 PM

shuck the ball stripping, and just make the defense learn how to know knock the offense's dick in the dirt. wrap 'em up, and put 'em down.

jeanpierre 02-03-2012 11:36 PM

Totally rework coaching staff; got one of his guys as Secondary Coach, good...

Recommend Releasing/Renegotiating Contracts of Harper, Ellis, Smith, and Vilma (Colston and Nicks must remain with this team and will help with best defense is a good offense)...

With remaining talent, decide best formation (as Spags has been a 4-3, will geaux that way)

FA Targets

DE Calais Campbell, Mario Williams, Cliff Avril

Williams and Avril are possible as Williams is out of place in a 3-4 and Lions have a ton of money committed to other three DL; Campbell would be the best addition and if Cardinals figure that have plenty allocated to other kid (Dockett), they may not franchise...

LB David Hawthorne, D'Qwell Jackson, Stephen Tulloch

Hawthorne is an absolute beast who gets no respect; D'Qwell is a good leader with some limits as far as size, but is productive and could transition to WLB; Stephen Tulloch is one hard hitter...

Cornerback

A little more competition wouldn't hurt, but I think this group did very well despite a schiotty pass rush; Cortland Finnegan would bring a nasty edge though likely to be tagged...

Strong Safety

Jenkins and Harper Battle royale - the winner will be made better - savings on loser released/traded would be a plus; Amaya didn't look that bad! LaRon Landry wildest dreams - likely tagged...

Free Safety

Michael Griffin is the target; if Landry were somehow signed, then the coaching staff geauxs to work on one big reclaimation project in Jenkins; really like our depth with Abdul-Quddus...

Biggest assessments are Will Smith and Jon Vilma - do they have enough left in the tank? Is it time to geaux youth there?

With draft picks you geaux best available with eyes on some of these guys *Bobby Wagner, OLB, *Markelle Martin, FS, *Chase Minnifield, CB, George Iloka, FS, Kendall Reyes, DT, *Tank Carder, OLB, *Josh Norman, CB, *Bruce Irvin, OLB, *Matt Conrath, DT, Malik Jackson, DE, Terrell Manning, OLB, Demario Davis, OLB (*-Favored)

Basically I'm blowing up a Defense that hasn't been improved talent and scheme over two years; oh, and I get Darren Sharper back into the fold as a coach/consultant/scout...

Now, does that about cover it?

Rugby Saint II 02-03-2012 11:49 PM

Fix the defense.............alright let's get some duct tape and get started.:smile:

hagan714 02-04-2012 01:12 AM

major changes on defense? nope i am not looking for any real major changes.

I am looking to see better depth added to the group as a whole.

Cameron Jordan is a should be solid strong side DE. Wilson at SLB I love especially with the TE playing now. Granted both are work in progress but i do like what i saw in 2011.

WLB is an interesting situation. Wilson swing to WLB? he has the speed. Who goes to SLB? Yet another reason to like Wilson. He allows us to draft or go after a FA to upgrade either position,

OLB is the big move i think the saints MAY make.

Stephen Tulloch wlb nice pick

but i am looking at players like

Jo-Lonn Dunbar, OLB, Saints
Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos

for a look see
Patrick Bailey, OLB, Titans

DE and DT can be improved with the draft or mid level FA.

Jason Jones, DT, Titans
Nate Collins, DT, Jaguars

Secondary? thats the tough area.

Tracy Porter, CB, Saints
William Middleton, CB, Jaguars

Safety
Dwight Lowery, CB/SS/FS, Jaguars. Age: 26


Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again.

! OLB and resign the bulk of the line and draft good depth is about all i see happening this year on the defensive side of the ball


TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danno 02-04-2012 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 375658)
Strong Safety

Jenkins and Harper Battle royale - the winner will be made better - savings on loser released/traded would be a plus; Amaya didn't look that bad! LaRon Landry wildest dreams - likely tagged...

Keeping Harper will cost us about 7 million for 2012.

Cutting or trading Harper will cost us 17 million for 2012, and we'd have to sign his replacement, which would be at least another 4 million for a comparable player.

I'm thinking we keep him.

alleycat_126 02-04-2012 08:34 AM

REMOVE SCOTT SHANLE!!!!!!! It's the number one piece we have to fix. No progress from WLB for far to long

- Ask Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis, and Will Smith to take pay cuts ...... . This gets you some much needed breathing room for defensive FA signings

- Sign D' Qwell Jackson from Cleveland. Tackle monster who plays Baltimore and Pittsburgh every year.

- Sign Cliff Avril from Detroit

- Find possible ways to lure Laron Landry to N.O

- Decide who's better Harper or Jenkins, but you CANNOT have two of the exact same player at both Safety positions. My money is on Malcolm Jenkins. So Trade Roman Harper for Asante Samuel.

Let Tracy Porter seek greener pastures!!!!!


Coach up in no specific Martez Wilson, Ramon Humber Jonathan Casillas, Greg Romeus, Cam Jorden for the youth movement.

Develop the third down ( NASCAR Package) Four DE on the field ( NEW DOME PATROL

spkb25 02-04-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 375479)
Start with stressing fundamentals.

I'd strive to be the team with the least amount of broken/missed tackles.

As far as personnel, I'd take the Finks approach. Build from the front toward the back. DT, DE, ILB, OLB.

Front to back, couldn't agree with you more man. It all starts up front, always

jcp026 02-04-2012 09:11 AM

Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O.

Also, I think signing anyone of note in free agency is unlikely.

I'll say this one more time:
2nd round LB Donta Hightower
3rd round DE Jared Crick
4th round S Markelle Martin
5th round DT Derek Wolfe
6th round TE Ladarius Green
7th round LB Adrien Cole

That's how to fix the D.

Danno 02-04-2012 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcp026 (Post 375694)
Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O.

Roughly...

Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year

With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him.

Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details.

Harper is a much better SS than many here understand.

alleycat_126 02-04-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 375695)
Roughly...

Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year

With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him.

Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details.

Harper is a much better SS than many here understand.

I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass.

Danno 02-04-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleycat_126 (Post 375725)
I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day.

If by all day you mean 2 or 3 games all season then OK.

Speedy Ron 02-04-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 375584)
I can see what your seeing about the DE's but the push up the middle has stunk for a few years , my thinking is with 2 DT's pushing the pocket it should make our speed rushers much, much better and with Romeus in the mix this year I think we are set at DE, now Avril would be nice but I don't think we have a chance at him. A MLB or OLB I could definatly see in FA or the draft. But the MLB needs to have some weight and speed, a thumper so to speak. I just want up-grades at these positions, not what we have now.

no offense, but what has romeus shown you that excites you? he was hurt all college, hurt rookie season.

halloween 65 02-04-2012 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron (Post 375740)
no offense, but what has romeus shown you that excites you? he was hurt all college, hurt rookie season.

I just think they see something in this guy otherwise he would have been cut or taken an injury settlement. I think he starts right away or by game 4, he was great in college.

RockyMountainSaint 02-04-2012 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 375668)
Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again.

TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

RockyMountainSaint 02-04-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 375749)
I just think they see something in this guy otherwise he would have been cut or taken an injury settlement. I think he starts right away or by game 4, he was great in college.

I was at most of the open camp practices.

Day 1 he was gingerly going through the rehab drills.

At the end he was very aggressive and the athleticism was obvious.

I don't know anything about his football I.Q. but the dude is a talent.

I am very hopeful.

The Dude 02-05-2012 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleycat_126 (Post 375725)
I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass.

Jenkins looked good and steadily improving the past two years. He had a down year this year. A lot of players do their 3rd year. I want to see what some of the rookies that came in under Gregg Williams can do in a new scheme before I go tossing them out. His schemes had to be tough on players coming into the league. Harper has been around for a while and probably won't get any better in pass coverage but is too valuable againt the run to let go. I think you see Jenkins shine in pass coverage under a new scheme. Then you put Harper in for run situations and play Jenkins in coverage when its obvious.

Speedy Ron 02-05-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 375749)
I just think they see something in this guy otherwise he would have been cut or taken an injury settlement. I think he starts right away or by game 4, he was great in college.

i hope your right. we need a DE so bad. i am still not crazy about the cam jordan pick. the whole "hes not a pass rusher but great against the run" thing just kills me. it might just be the talking heads incorrect analysis of the guy but to me its a waisted pick. who wants a de that cant rush the passer in a pass happy league. id rather have picked ingram and kept the first round pick this year. who know maybe we can retain nicks and colston since we dont have to pay a first rounder.

jcp026 02-05-2012 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron (Post 375952)
i hope your right. we need a DE so bad. i am still not crazy about the cam jordan pick. the whole "hes not a pass rusher but great against the run" thing just kills me. it might just be the talking heads incorrect analysis of the guy but to me its a waisted pick. who wants a de that cant rush the passer in a pass happy league. id rather have picked ingram and kept the first round pick this year. who know maybe we can retain nicks and colston since we dont have to pay a first rounder.

I'd rather have picked Jordan and then traded out of the second and picked DeMarco Murray. That is, of course, in hindsight. I didn't want to draft a running back at all. All defense for me.

blackangold 02-11-2012 03:25 PM

Starting D for 2012 season (current roster)
DE Gallete
DT Johnson/Jorden
NT Franklin
DE Romeus (if healthy) McBride (if not)

WLB Casillas
MLB Vilma
SLB Wilson

CB Greer
SS Harper
FS Jenkins
CB Robinson

NB Patrick

Cut Shanle, Ellis and Smith--don't re-sign Porter or Rodgers. Use FA or draft to get depth at DT



CharityMike 02-11-2012 05:48 PM

Man..when you watch these highlights of Casillas and Wilson you can't help but get excited. Seemed GW mainly used them to blitz. Crossing my fingers we get to see them full time.


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