Shaun Rogers ranked 7th
 

Calais Campbell is the only guy I'd be interested in.

I don't know... there's something about Garay that makes we wanna see him wear the b&g uniform next year... another former Chargers' FA signing with the Saints. ;-)

This is how stats can be deceptive ... he ranks 7th when you skew the list among free agents, but he'll rank further down on a list of the league's defensive interior lineman ... he's the Saints highest rated defensive player, but averages only 20 snaps a game ... a big guy to clog up the middle, but I ga-ron-tee you give him a juicy contract he'll be a bust ... been there, seen it with this guy.

Been there,done that.

Cue the beautiful bean footage of Charles Grant!!

Why would we resign him or Franklin, there was absolutely NO penetration up the middle at all last year.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wouldn't mind it if they re-signed Franklin to be a run-stuffing DT, because he does that job well. Also, he is the younger of the two, and to me he seemed to be more motivated in playing "within the system" than Rogers did. Of course, re-signing him would have to be paired with the Saints either having a more pass rushing DT in the rotation for subbing Franklin out when the situation requires it or to pair him with a predominantly pass rushing DT (i.e. not Ellis).

Franklin had a $4M salary last season (base: $1.25M + signing bonus: $2.75M), which was the best deal he could find in the FA market - actually the only other offer he received except for returning to SF. Therefore, after the average season he had with the Saints, he might be willing to re-sign for less money because of the low demand for his services.

And yes I did say "average" season, because he is not a pass rushing DL, and if the Saints picked him up to be one - they didn't do their homework. He was very good in SF being the NT in a 3-4 base system where his main job was to stuff the middle, so that the great OLBs of SF could focus their attention on the outside threats and the pass rush.

He was much better in the 3-4 base, and that is why I think that if he does receive offers - they'll probably be from teams running the 3-4 defense and looking for a stout NT to anchor their D-line.

Surely there's a rookie or UDFA out there that can do it cheaper. Then we use that money to help fix our defense. Give a big fat guy the league minimum and then go get another one for the rotation. We're still saving money and can afford to upgrade the LB'ers in free agency.

I seriously doubt that there's an UDFA out there with better run stopping ability than Franklin, definitely cheaper ones, but not as good.

If the Saints are lucky, Franklin could be had for as little as $2.5-3M for a single season, and for that price he'd be really good value for the money - that's like 2% of the cap.

I would let a 3/4 defense have him since we are a 4/3, he did not do well in our 4/3 and someone who could excel could earn that spot for that money. I had high hopes for the both of them, well that was all it amounted to was hope, not production.

Franklin played well
Rogers played OK

I'd resign Franklin and let Rogers walk.

But that is the perception I was trying to disprove...

Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact.

Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role.

Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him.

No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run.

It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.

If all you want is someone to stand the line up and get no penitration well I guess he's your man. But for me I want someboby that can penitrait and defend the run, a disruptive force so to speak, rather than settling for a one dimentional run stuffer and as I looked at the 10 he was well #10. Me I would take my chances with someone else, especially if they keep Ellis.

I understand that Jordan was never considered a pass rushing DE during his collegiate career however given the amount of sacks he got (1) for the season considering the playing time he got does not make me happy about the decision to draft him. Consider this, the sack he managed to get was against Cam Newton who was running out of the pocket, not to mention when Jordan made the tackle it was a personal foul (horse collar). Also, Jordan played in every game but but had 2 less sacks then McBride who only played in 3 games. I hope Jordan finds the ability to get to the QB or gets moved to DT.

Fantasy world:
We draft Ingram with the Jordan pick and retain our pick for the upcoming draft, look what LB is there at that position .... Hightower...

I really do hope Jordan pans out because Hightower looks to be a stud LB

Yes, I do see your point, and naturally I would like for the Saints to have a DT who could stop the run, create interior pass rush with sacks, pat passes down, and catch those passes for pick 6s.

But, I simply can't believe that the Saints' FO didn't know what type of a DT Franklin was when they decided to make him an offer. Therefore, it is only logical to conclude that they wanted a run stuffing DT like Franklin and didn't much care if whether or not he could create interior pass rush. So, it is not about what I want, but what it seems like the Saints' FO wanted in signing a player like Franklin.

Going into the season, I remember statements like this being thrown around: "Rogers and Franklin are going to attract so many double teams that Ellis will have a career year rushing the passer," but he didn't while the afore mentioned did attract their share of double teams. So, I would think that maybe the coaches were expecting the pass rush to come primarily from other players than these two big guys... maybe I'm wrong? ...or maybe it was just GW imagining Harper having 24 sacks in the season?

I wouldn't mind a more 1-dimensional DT with an emphasis on anchoring the point of defense, but he would have to be partnered with either another DT who was a good pass rusher or with DEs that were able to close up the pocket from the edges.


That wasn't his sack... a sack isn't given if a defensive penalty occurs during the said play. He got his sack a while after that particular play.

both FA DT were disappointing to say the least

^^THIS^^

And the lengths some are going, to try and make me think they were even decent, is funny.

http://lifemadeawesome.files.wordpre...pg?w=298&h=320

Nailed it.

Franklin did exactly what I thought he'd do, and probably did what the coaches expected as well. Stop the run in order for our 3-tech DT's to penetrate. Franklin held up his end of the deal. Our 3-techs... not so much.


Rogers didn't play as well as I'd hoped, but he wasn't terrible either. I expected much more out of him since he was in a rotation that should have kept him fresh, but he often looked fatigued.

what am missing here with Rogers? including post season, he had 23 tackles and zero sacks
he is way past guaranteed money just for potential

Our system and lack of off season could have played a big part in both Rogers and Franklin having average years. If they price is right, which is no where near what they each made last season, I'd be very interested in bringing Franklin back and I'd kick the tires on Rogers. Our defense as a whole played poorly last year... doesn't mean these guys are talented.

Agree with Hagan here. We allowed as an average 108.6 Yards rushing per game to our opponents. Would have been a lot more if not for the blowouts that forced teams to pass more. Franklin under performed at least compared to what he did in S.F. think he could be good in the interior but he had little help from the rest of the line. Dont see how any of these guys could really be called run stuffers at this point. Throw that in with over 275 average passing yards allowed per game and we were close to allowing 400average yards per game in these two catagories. This does not count the yards from the kicking game, interception returns or from fumbles. Not a pretty picture so I hope we can somehow improve this comming season.

If Spags keeps Rodgers, Franklin, and Sed he sure has his work cut out for him trying to get a pass rush out of those guys. Might be the shortest a DC has ever been in New Orleans. We need up-grades!!

Well, it all depends on how you look at it.

In 2009 the Saints were #21st against the run with an average yards per game being 122.2 and allowing 19 rushing TDs.

In 2010 the Saints were #16th against the run with 112.3 y/g and they allowed 13 rushing TDs.

In 2011 the Saints were #12th against the run with 108.6 y/g and they allowed 11 rushing TDs.

So, their run defense was better this season than it was in the past two seasons before it. ...at least if we are strictly looking at the numbers.

Also, you can't really compare Franklin's numbers from the past few SF years to this last season with the Saints and hope to find a representative comparison of overall performance.

Like you already alluded to, Franklin had a much better cast of other players around him in SF, his role was much bigger being a perennial starter and logging in most of the defensive snaps (while with the Saints he only was a starter in 9 games and shared snaps with others), and most importantly SF played a 3-4 defense which gave him a different role as the NT than being a DT in a 4-3 defense lining directly opposite to guards.

Yes, that was his only sack of the season.

However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season....

I'm going with papz' assessment. Scheme and lack of prep had more to do with the defensive problems than personnel in the DL.

I guess you could be right, but I seem to remember him getting another sack after that in the same game, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I doubt they would've marked that as his sack, because there was the horsecollar call against him. Maybe he had 2 half sacks or something... I really don't know, but I still think he had another tackle for a loss in that game.

Anyway, for all of those who expected Jordan to be a sack machine in the NFL - this is from a Bleacherreport article that was published ahead of last year's draft:


NFL Draft 2011: Cameron Jordan's Pass-Rushing Ability at NFL Level a Question | Bleacher Report


The Saints knew this, and they still went after Jordan, so that tells me that they wanted a LDE, who could primarily stop the run.

I don't even have to watch the video- I remember it well- one of many favorable calls that the annointed one got.

No flag on the play, and then the refs huddle up, and lo and behold, horse @#$& horse collar

exactly.
paying a crappy player less does not make them a better player

I really don't think that the Saints have a single player on their roster I would estimate as "crappy."

....not even Shanle! ;-)

True, Shanle at vet minimum and as veteran back-up to both outside spots would be fine with me.

Agreed, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also, doesn't make sense to me. We are a high scoring team year in and year out. What does that mean on D; teams are going to have to pass the ball to keep up. So what do we do: we grab a run stopping DE in the draft, a run stopping DT in Franklin, a run stuffing DT in Rodgers and we let the best pass rushing DT we have walk in free agency (Hargrove).

I have been frustrated as I am sure many Saints fans have about the lack of pass rush from the LDE position. First it was Grant who had one good year as a pass rusher, then Brown who came in with high hopes and failed to perform. Now I see the same thing with Jordan. In Spags D rushing the passer from the DE position is priority---worried. Worried because if Jordan and Smith are the starting DEs I see our secondary getting left out to dry all year long...

Yes, mentally Shanle may be one of the best LBs in the game. However his body just cant cash in.

I hope he stays to coach up some of the young LB talent we have, but I prey that he does not start.