It's really just a salary cap violation

frankeefrank · 03-07-2012, 02:54 AM

I understand that the term "bounty" makes things sound worse than they are but in reality this is really just a salary cap violation.
here's how the league handled it before. CNNSI.com - NFL Football - SI's King: 49ers fined for salary cap violations - Friday December 01, 2000 06:38 PM
Players received illegal bonus money.
That being said, tens of thousands compared to hundreds of thousands...
there's no way this thing even come close to what the niners did cost wise.
IMO it's impossible to prove intent in regards to the hits.
Doing do would open up Pandora's box.
we'll get a hit for what the league will determine is their version of "lack of institutional control" but besides that I don't really see were they have a standing to impose harsh penalties like the media predicts.
If so, then this is really just a vendetta.

SmashMouth · 03-07-2012, 07:19 AM

If the players contribute themselves ... is it still a cap violation? ... Vilma put up $10,000 allegedly.

TheOak · 03-07-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

If the players contribute themselves ... is it still a cap violation? ... Vilma put up $10,000 allegedly.

Nope... That just makes it a friendly loan. All anyone has to say is they they have yet to pay it back...

Pay backs are a #%&!

Euphoria · 03-07-2012, 08:55 AM

Players and maybe some coaches put into the pot NOT THE TEAM. So it has NOTHING to do with cap numbers.

This is essentially an office pool run amok.

Although after reviewing the NFL rule on this EVERY player in the NFL is guilty of this because you can't not run this 'incentive program'. Not even for INT's or fumbles. Its all illegal.

xan · 03-07-2012, 09:49 AM

I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control.

Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm?

Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself?

SapperSaint · 03-07-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by xan

I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control.

Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm?

Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself?

THANK YOU

SaintsBro · 03-07-2012, 10:17 AM

What is really happening is that they are using the cap violation as a "gotcha" way of cracking down on the practice. I mean $100 or $500 for an interception is pretty ridiculous in terms of a player's salary or the cap, but it's a "gotcha" moment and that is the rule that can be enforced to throw the book at the organization as well as the players. And it was wrong to do it, and people need to wrap their heads around that. It has Gregg Williams' fingerprints all over it and that needs to be acknowledged as well.

The OTHER issue is that Payton and Loomis were apparently told to stop it, and allegedly did not...that is a different separate issue and will be dealt with differently. Don't be surprised if the penalties/fines/suspensions are handed down in different "groups" at different times over a period of weeks or months, instead of all at once.

Euphoria · 03-07-2012, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by xan

I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control.

Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm?

Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself?

No but if you have such a plan to pay out to someone money to hurt or harm someone... that is illegal in every state in America.

st thomas · 03-07-2012, 10:42 AM

unless someone kept a book on all the cash in the bounty program its all hearsay which should be throw out if this goes to court. so its all about 1 person that said the word bounty and all hell breaks loose? you will hear about this i'm sure in the snitch's book that will be out when this blows over. remember jose consaco.

Euphoria · 03-07-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by st thomas

unless someone kept a book on all the cash in the bounty program its all hearsay which should be throw out if this goes to court. so its all about 1 person that said the word bounty and all hell breaks loose? you will hear about this i'm sure in the snitch's book that will be out when this blows over. remember jose consaco.

One person?

I think you have the definition wrong on what hearsay means. Hearsay is when I say that you told me something... that can't go into court but if I say you did something that can go to court because I am a witness. This so called snitch is a witness.

There are several people who admitted. 2 Coaches, a GM have already apologized and ADMITTED it happened. That isn't hearsay. Also players have come out now and said they contributed to the fund.

03-07-2012, 02:54 AM	#1
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	It's really just a salary cap violation I understand that the term "bounty" makes things sound worse than they are but in reality this is really just a salary cap violation. here's how the league handled it before. CNNSI.com - NFL Football - SI's King: 49ers fined for salary cap violations - Friday December 01, 2000 06:38 PM Players received illegal bonus money. That being said, tens of thousands compared to hundreds of thousands... there's no way this thing even come close to what the niners did cost wise. IMO it's impossible to prove intent in regards to the hits. Doing do would open up Pandora's box. we'll get a hit for what the league will determine is their version of "lack of institutional control" but besides that I don't really see were they have a standing to impose harsh penalties like the media predicts. If so, then this is really just a vendetta.
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	The weather is always 72 degrees and perfect, in the Dome

03-07-2012, 08:49 AM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Originally Posted by SmashMouth If the players contribute themselves ... is it still a cap violation? ... Vilma put up $10,000 allegedly. Nope... That just makes it a friendly loan. All anyone has to say is they they have yet to pay it back... Pay backs are a #%&!

03-07-2012, 09:49 AM	#5
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control. Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm? Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself? saintfan likes this.

03-07-2012, 09:52 AM	#6
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Originally Posted by xan I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control. Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm? Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself? THANK YOU

03-07-2012, 10:17 AM	#7
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	What is really happening is that they are using the cap violation as a "gotcha" way of cracking down on the practice. I mean $100 or $500 for an interception is pretty ridiculous in terms of a player's salary or the cap, but it's a "gotcha" moment and that is the rule that can be enforced to throw the book at the organization as well as the players. And it was wrong to do it, and people need to wrap their heads around that. It has Gregg Williams' fingerprints all over it and that needs to be acknowledged as well. The OTHER issue is that Payton and Loomis were apparently told to stop it, and allegedly did not...that is a different separate issue and will be dealt with differently. Don't be surprised if the penalties/fines/suspensions are handed down in different "groups" at different times over a period of weeks or months, instead of all at once. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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03-07-2012, 07:19 AM	#2
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 37,061 Blog Entries: 29	If the players contribute themselves ... is it still a cap violation? ... Vilma put up $10,000 allegedly.

03-07-2012, 08:55 AM	#4
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Players and maybe some coaches put into the pot NOT THE TEAM. So it has NOTHING to do with cap numbers. This is essentially an office pool run amok. Although after reviewing the NFL rule on this EVERY player in the NFL is guilty of this because you can't not run this 'incentive program'. Not even for INT's or fumbles. Its all illegal.

03-07-2012, 10:27 AM	#8
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by xan I'd not say "illegal" because there is no federal, state, or local law prohibiting this kind of reward system. This is simply a violation of league policy. It is certainly not gambling, because this is a performance based pool with no guaranteed payout beyond the performance which would be outside the participants' control. Has anyone actually SEEN proof that there was a contract/conspiracy to inflict physical harm and an actual PAYOUT based on that harm? Or is this conjecture based on someone's casual and imprecise use of the term "bounty" for the pool itself? No but if you have such a plan to pay out to someone money to hurt or harm someone... that is illegal in every state in America.

03-07-2012, 10:42 AM	#9
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	unless someone kept a book on all the cash in the bounty program its all hearsay which should be throw out if this goes to court. so its all about 1 person that said the word bounty and all hell breaks loose? you will hear about this i'm sure in the snitch's book that will be out when this blows over. remember jose consaco.

03-07-2012, 11:31 AM	#10
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by st thomas unless someone kept a book on all the cash in the bounty program its all hearsay which should be throw out if this goes to court. so its all about 1 person that said the word bounty and all hell breaks loose? you will hear about this i'm sure in the snitch's book that will be out when this blows over. remember jose consaco. One person? I think you have the definition wrong on what hearsay means. Hearsay is when I say that you told me something... that can't go into court but if I say you did something that can go to court because I am a witness. This so called snitch is a witness. There are several people who admitted. 2 Coaches, a GM have already apologized and ADMITTED it happened. That isn't hearsay. Also players have come out now and said they contributed to the fund.

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