An Outsider's Perspective.
 

I came here to see how fans were reacting to the penalties and I didn't intend to register an account or interject my thoughts, but it seems to me that many here are missing something important and have misplaced their anger. I'm a Steelers fan who moved to Seattle recently, so I have no feelings towards the Saints one way or the other. So I think that qualifies me as a neutral observer. I'm not trying to start trouble but I do think this needs to be said.

Rodger Goodell is not the man at whom you should be angry. There are several villains here, but he is not one. First and foremost you should be angry with Williams for introducing a system that ended up going far beyond similar systems in other locker rooms. Obviously it would be naive to assume that this is the only time something like this has happened, but if you look at recent player reactions now that more information has come to light, it's pretty clear that what was going on in the Saints locker room went well beyond the formal rules and the unwritten rules of the game.

Beyond Williams, you should be mad at Sean Payton. He is the reason for his harsh year long suspension. What many here seem to be overlooking is that his suspension was not just handed down for the bounty system. If he knew about it and did nothing to stop it then he should have been given a fine or a game suspension at most. But, according to the evidence the NFL collected (and by Payton's own admission) he did more than allow the program to continue. He lied to NFL investigators both times they looked into allegations of a bounty scandal and, worse, told other coaches and team officials to lie to investigators as well. He lied to the team owner when he said he would put a stop to the program and allowed it to continue. Again, Payton admitted to all of this and it is supported by documents obtained by the NFL in their investigation.

This also isn't the first time that Payton has been in trouble. There was the Vicodin scandal that went away quietly. And of course the league warned the Saints about the bounty investigation several years ago. But if you look at how Payton has dealt with all of this, he has shown staggering arrogance. It is no secret that the league has been unhappy with his behavior and for his apparent attitude that the Saints are special and don't have to follow the rules like everyone else. From small things like showing up to media day late all the way up to blatantly lying to Goodell about the bounties, it appears that he thinks he's above the rules. Obviously I don't know the man so I can't say if that's how he really feels, but his behavior would seem to indicate that this is the case.

And this is one of the biggest reasons the Saints have been slammed so hard- the arrogance and the coverup. Some here have noted that the Packers were investigated for a pay for performance system and received essentially no penalties. Aside from the fact that the league didn't find evidence of money being offered for injuries in the Packers system, the team admitted to it and promptly put a stop to it. Remember that the league approached the Saints in a similar manner several years ago. If the Saints had put a stop to it like they said they were going to, we may have never even learned that an investigation ever took place. Instead, team officials like Payton and Loomis simply lied to the NFL and continued on with the program.

As for Goodell, I know the punishments are severe, but what is he supposed to do? I saw my fellow Steelers fans lashing out at him when he suspended Roethlisberger or Harrison, the same way I see fans here lashing out. In both cases though, it's misplaced anger. Like I said, what is he supposed to do? His job is to enforce the rules, and he receives intricately documented evidence that the Saints have been systematically violating the rules for several years even after being warned about the behavior before. The same franchise whose head coach was involved in a prescription drug abuse lawsuit. The same franchise that had received multiple complaints from other coaches and players about dirty play. It was clear that the Saints had no intent of putting a stop to this and had essentially given the middle finger to the league. With bounties being placed to injure players, including star quarterbacks, and with mounting lawsuits involving physical injuries, what else could Goodell do?

I've seen some here suggest that Goodell and the league are out to get the Saints because they don't like the organization for some reason- because it's not profitable enough or because they want Brees on a big market team, or because they beat the Colts (an even smaller market team than the Saints by the way). But if you look at how the league has treated the Saints recently, that's just absurd. The league played a huge role in helping the team after Katrina and in working through the team to help the city of New Orleans. And they loved selling your franchise as a feel good story, especially during the Super Bowl run. Since then the Saints have had more nationally televised games than most other teams, they've been highlighted and featured in countless NFL advertising campaigns, and the national sports media has covered them relentlessly. The league was clearly happy to have the Saints doing well because it was a feel good story they could market. The rest of the country was sick of hearing about you guys to be honest. So the idea that the league is trying to sabotage your franchise just doesn't make sense.

Anyways, if you took the time to read all of that mess, thank you. :) Like I said, I'm not trying to troll or anything, but I think many people here, in their anger, are kind of missing who the real villains here. And more than anything you should be angry with Payton and the other coaches for being arrogant enough to think they could simply lie to the NFL and try to cover up what was going on. Their willful disregard for the rules and for the integrity of the game left Goodell with no other choice.

I'm not saying the coaches are horrible people. And I'm not saying that the fans shouldn't enthusiastically welcome Payton and Loomis back once they've served their suspensions. But what they did was clearly wrong and they are the ones who have put the Saints in this position, not Goodell or the league. Anyways, good luck and I hope your team is able to pull together and come out on the other side stronger and better because of it.

Nobody here is giving Williams a pass, or Payton, or Loomis.

As for Goodell, the crime doesn't fit the punishment. Period. There are players regularly fined (you should know) for violating this rule Goodell professes to hold so near and dear to his heart. Have any repeat offenders been banned? Bull chit. Player's safety my ass.

Roger Goodell stood firmly behind the Doctor who stood up and said NFL players have no greater risk for concussions than you or I. Any idiot knows that isn't true, and essentially the entire medical community was staggered by that assessment.

The NFL was called to Washington, and, at the behest of politicians Goodell began to implement all these 'safety measures', but not until. Look it up.

Flash forward to now. For the last 3+ years, ex-players are gathering in increasing numbers - now approaching 700 - and will be taking the league to court claiming it KNEW about the dangers to their health and did nothing. Moreover, the league purposefully exposed them to risk by injecting them with drugs and suggesting they get back on the field or risk losing their job.

Were Goodell's hands tied? Not even close. The punishment is unrivaled in sports. This is NOT because the Saints did some horrible thing never before seen by the NFL. This is NOT because the Saints tried to cover it up. It's not like the Patriots said, "Oh yeah, we filmed other teams. Here's the Camera we did it with." But hell no.

What this is about is the league making a very public stand and an example out of the Saints so they can say they did so in court. That is it. That is all.

saintfan covered it! nothing more needs to be said

Yup, we're guilty of playing the game of tackle football TOO HARD, and still NO ONE got hurt as a result.

What I'm dreading now is fighting my way out of every bar I watch a Saints game in this upcoming season, because there will be many loudmouth objective fans telling me how Payton deserved it...

And then they will feel something cold on their shoulders...

And it will be the FLOOR.

Alaska

STFU!

I don't blame Payton as much as everyone is making it out to be. Look, he didn't kill anyone. People make it sound like if Goodell had Payton executed by electric Chair, Oh well that is what he gets... F that.

Look he lied, held back some info. WELCOME TO THE CORPORATE WORLD it happens in business every day. That is what he is guilty of really. He didn't kill a dog, nor a human. Or even gave alcohol to a minor, held them against their will and raped them. Yeah your QB is still in the NFL. Payton's penalty is WAY to harsh. Williams yes he should get what he got.

Velvet, our anger is not misdirected, your perception of it is. The vast majority of us are in agreement that stiff penalties needed to be handed down. Though we don't condone what was going on we stand by our Head Coach and team through this. We are not angered at Goodell for hammering us here. We are mad at him about the one year Payton got. That was totally over the top and uncalled for. It is a blatant abuse of power and as others have already said it's just the NFL's way of CYA at our expense. No, our anger isn't misdirected. The NFL hasn't seen angry yet. Our season may be a wash this year, I hope not, I hope we kick a$$ all year and don't miss a beat, but come next year when we get everyone back and all this is behind us I hope Sean, Brees and company hits the field with a take no prisoners attitude and kicks the ever loving crap out of everone, legally. I hope we strive to hang 50+ on everyone and don't stop scoring until the final whistle sounds. Yea, we're angry, but just wait and see. The NFL will see in due time just how angry we are, and trust me, it won't be misdirected.

Well said guy's. My anger is not misdirected, it directed straight at that moron who is most probably the BIGGEST Hypocrite on this planet. By your post, you are saying that a 8 million dollar fine is ok. So basically it is a fine for lieing and cover up. Nevermind the NFL has players who actually kill people and break the real world laws and only get a minimal fine. Yeah..it's justified..whatever

This Steelers fans' comments are exactly what I am sick of. We ALL understand that the Saints screwed themselves. But they aren't the only one's doing this. And YES, we know they lied to investigators. Here's the problem these judgemental outsiders keep missing: no other team is being investigated! So how do we know they wouldn't lie?

We haven't missed anything. Roger clearly has.

Good point. Who has EVER been fined $8,000,000 for ANYTHING?!

There are rapists and murderers in the NFL and we were playing football TOO HARD!!

Alaska

Who is the "rapist" you speak of? :mrgreen:

oh that's right...

Ben Roethlisberger :doh:

I can't believe the point they totally ignored that the girl was under age and he bought her drinks... wouldn't let her leave, kidnapping but its a NFL start other than the Saints so its ok.

So does the OP think that the penalties were excessive or not? I saw a poll that most of the country outside of LA, TX, MS, AL & AR thought the penalties were fair & just. What's your answer?

I think that the penalties were absolutely fair and just. As I said before, the NFL made it clear that the penalties were not just for the bounties but, particularly in the case of Payton, for lying to investigators and trying to cover things up. Remember that the Saints were given a chance to stop this without penalties when the league first approached them about the bounties. Several team officials chose to lie to the league instead of taking this chance to put things right without imposition of severe penalties.

As for "everyone else is doing it" the commissioner can only act on the evidence he is given. If someone came to him with similiar evidence of this system on any other team he would investigate it, because that's his job. There's a reason he asked the other 31 teams to certify that they have no such programs. If somebody blows the whistle on another team after they swore to having no such programs, it paves the way for swift imposition of penalties. Unless you think he's out to "get" the Saints. But, for several reasons I noted in my original post, that theory does not hold up to even a cursory look at how the league has supported and actively marketed the Saints franchise over the past several years.

One other important thing to note is that it doesn't really matter if the Saints actually did take cheap shots or successfully injure other players (although as the NFL noted in its report, the Saints were near the top of the league in illegal hitting penalties for each of the seasons when Williams was the D coordinator). The offering of bounties is wrong regardless of whether or not they were successfully carried out. For example, hiring a hit man is illegal even if he doesn't kill his target. Obviously two very different acts, but the logic is the same.

I just think, when you get right down to it, Sean Payton and other team officials are the reason the Saints are in this position right now. This was not about hard hits, this was about targeting other players for injury in a systematic fashion and a subsequent attempt at a coverup when the league investigated. I don't see how Goodell could have done any less given what Payton and others admitted to doing.

Proof enough for you?

Kyle Williams Concussions: Giants Targeted 49ers Player Due To Previous Head Injuries

how about this?

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/nf...er/posts/17001

I should apologize if it sounded like I thought all Saints fans felt the same way and I also realize that my post about "misdirected anger" could have come across as condescending. That really wasn't my intent and I apologize if I sounded that way.

That isn't proof but it's absolutely something that might warrant investigation. And given that the NFL already investigated the Redskins and Bills in connection to Williams coaching positions with those teams, I wouldn't be surprised if these kind of comments lead to investigations. But another important thing to remember is that people went to the league directly with evidence of a bounty program going on. If similar evidence was brought to the league regarding other teams, I am sure an investigation would be launched.

You're telling me this ain't proof? :rolleyes:

This bounty system has always been practiced league wide... it's nothing new. This isn't about being punished, it was deserved. It's about being made as an example and excessively punished by Goodell to get his point across.

Report: Tennessee Titans and Baltimore Ravens had bounty programs in place - National NFL | Examiner.com

It's pathetic how the media and fans(including ours) can be completely oblivious as if it's something new and inhumane. It's been utilized by virtually every team in some way, shape, or form throughout the leagues existence. All those people with those hoity toity holier than thou opinions can shove it and start watching ping pong.

Next thing you know the Senate is going to start coming down on Nascar drivers that intentionally bump other drivers for better position... someone could get hurt. As if driving 200 mph wasn't risky in the first place.

How much money did the NFL make off of the highest rated program in TV history (yes, that would be the Saints beating the Colts in the Super Bowl)?! Is Goodell willing to give up some of his salary that he made off the very team that he's punishing?! Not bloody likely. It must be nice to be the Packers... Get busted for having a bounty program 5 years ago and get off the hook unpunished because someone didn't snitch that they were probably still doing it. Sorry for ranting... The whole thing just sucks.

The strong reaction against the saints we've seen from many players and the almost non existent statements of "this is unfair" from players would indicate that what the Saints did goes beyond what happens in other locker rooms. Can't say that for sure, but when was the last time you saw so many players actively condemning other players in the league for things that typically are understood to stay in the locker room?

"Strong" reaction from players? Which ones? A kickers and rookie center from the Vikings? Most of the player reactions I've read pretty much state the whole thing isn't that big of a deal.

You should have stopped right there.
You have ABSO-F*ING-LUTELY NO IDEA what goes on in NFL locker rooms.

Here is a story for you. The year is 1987. Saints are playing the Oilers. Morten Andersen kicks off, and a LB playing STs makes a b-line for him and just crushes him. A couple of years later, the same LB signs with the Saints. Morten asked him "why did you do that?" Dude says "they gave me $1,000".

$1000 in 1987, when the average salary in the NFL was something in the neighborhood of $200,000, and special teamers most likely made something in the $50,000-70,000 range. Oh, and in those days there were no fines for illegal hits, and I don't recall any sort if hit being illegal other than the head slap.

Nowadays the average NFL salary is close to $2,000,000. I think the minimum is around $700,000? And you put a good lick on someone, chances are you are going to get a $20,000 fine (unless of course, you knock out Pierre Thomas and yell "that's how we play the game, we knock people out"), so $1,000... hmmm, not what I would call a "bounty".

So, what does that tell you?
"Bounties" have been around for a looooong, long time.
Given the amounts of money involved today (what players allegedly got vis a vis fines), "bounties" are the equivalent of a rich man's office pool or a sticker you get for your helmet in college football.

And make no mistake, every defensive player out there is looking to knock someone out. Period. I only play HS (SS), and even in HS, no one ever told me not to hurt anyone, or how to hit them, other than "hit'em as hard as you can, but see what you're hitting", "make him cry", "make him not want to carry the ball no more".

The NFL is a league which has no issues marketing Dick Butkus sitting on a bench with bloody hands licking his chops, Deacon Jones giving head slaps, Jack Lambert body-slamminga kicker, Ronnie Lott showing his pinky (or what's left of it), or a bleeding Ray Nitschke. This is a league which promos include LT telling his teammates "let's go at'em like a bunch of crazed dogs" or "you come around here again I'll kick your MF ass"; Bill Cowher telling Frank Lloyd "rush the QB" (and we all know what that means, don't we?); this is a league which has no issues airing bits and pieces of The Bounty Bowl, or The Body Bag Game... they love to make the money from the violence.

... but then again, this is the same league that made PrimeTime stop airing the Jacked Up spot because it added fuel to the fire that is the lawsuits stemming from oh, yeah, the commissioner lying to the players about medical implications of concussions.

There is no misdirected anger here.

Velvet Llama,

As most people here know (because I post about it ad nauseum), I was raised a Steelers Fan. I nearly stopped watching football altogether after the Roethlisberger debacle. Instead, through a series of events I won't explain here, I became a Saints fan.

I bring up the Roethlisberger situation because, to me, it is relevant to the Saints situation.

Initially, the Saints were being investigated for the Bounty Program. The program paid for big plays and for knocking players out of games. What it did NOT do, was pay for illegal hits. The Saints were around 4th in the league in personal foul penalties during the time of the bounties. I don't know of any serious, career threatening injuries that were incurred by Saints opponents. So, the initial charge was, really, for payments outside the salary cap. The term "bounty" makes it sound like players were being taken out at the knees or having their heads targeted when, to my knowledge, there is not a single instance of that on record. I mean, Jesus, why the heck didn't Marshawn Lynch get his knee smashed in the playoff game against Seattle a couple of years ago if the Saints were so willing to injure people?

Then, there was the lying. Okay, this one is tough for me. I want to believe my new team would not do this but, apparently, they did. I'm disappointed but hopefully everyone will learn, become better people, and move on.

So, to recap, there was a violation of the salary cap and then a cover up about it.

Let's compare that with what Roethlisberger did. He raped at least one girl, probably more. He lied to police about it.

Which is more severe? Ben Roethlisberger should have been banned from the league forever. It's the fact that The Steelers didn't cut ties with him immediately that caused me to cut my ties (i.e. my fandom/support, I know they don't give a sh*t about me in any way) with them.

4 games for RAPING somebody vs. an indefinite suspension, a season's suspension, an 8 game suspension, a 6 game suspension, a 1/2 million dollars in fines (and even more than that in salaries lost), and TWO draft picks for covering up a salary cap violation. I'm sorry, you have to be effing kidding me.

Or compare it to the Patriots' cheating scandal. Their actions actually brought them a competitive advantage. Their penalty: $250k and a draft pick...one first-round draft pick...in a season where they had TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS!!! Essentially, their penalty was NOTHING!

That's why I'm so mad at Goodell. This is absurd. If he was SO concerned about player safety, he should have suspended Payton/Williams/et al as soon as he learned about it 3 years ago.

Instead, the Saints Program hit the media and he felt he needed to show everyone who is really in charge. If this was about any sort of "justice" there would be an investigation into EVERY team. We know there were programs that Williams led in Washington and wherever he was before that. Why aren't they being punished? None of that is happening because Goodell doesn't really give a rat's behind. He just wants to save face in front of the media and the potential lawsuits that are out there.

I am disappointed in Payton, Loomis, etc. and I recognize they were wrong. But two wrongs don't make a right and Goodell's overreaction is wrong as well.

Very nice Kovacs;

However you are wrong with one thing, it's actually $1,000,000 in fines...

Loomis was fined 500,000 and then Benson and the organization was fined another 500,000 (I think that's right) :doh:

I think you're right, Mitch.

I had actually written $1,000,000 in fines, initially, but went back and changed it because I thought to myself "no, that's just too insane."

I also forgot that we haven't even seen player suspensions yet.

God, writing it all out like that makes me even angrier!

Ahem. I don't think people here are mad at Goodell because of the penalties. I think it is because of what happened with Spygate where Bill Belichick got a tiny slap on the wrist.

$500,000 and no suspsension versus $5.8 million and a year suspension - does that seem fair to you? It doesn't to me. Add to that the fact that there were no penalties whatsoever leveled against the Packers for their bounty program which was clearly in violation of league policies and yeah, so we're really f*cking pissed here! I have no problem with the severity if there had been even the slightest precedent for it. The Patriots got one measly draft pick taken away along with a monetary fine which was extremely small in comparison to how much money Bill Belicheat has made over his career. It was truly nothing at all and he's the man who INITIATED the f*cking program.

YES, we are all livid at Gregg Williams for initiating the program. YES, we are extremely disappointed in Sean Payton for lying to Goodell and trying to sweep everything under the rug. What those two men did was truly awful, but so was what Belichick did and the punishments are not even close to similar. And btw, with regard to the Steelers, James Harrison is out there essentially trying to kill people during every game and he gets a one game suspension after Dick LeBeau has personally assured him it's okay to keep playing exactly the same way. "Don't change a thing" he told Harrison after his third fine.

So yeah, we're totally f*cking pissed off at the inconsistent way our team has been treated in this mess. I just hope the Saints are mad enough to go out there and f*cking kick everyone's ass and stomp them into the dust. I hope they are out for BLOOD.

Another thing: both Darren Woodson and Mike Golic thought this was way, way overblown and they both said these so-called bounties went on when they were playing football.

And here is a direct quote from Calvin Johnson: “I didn’t think anything of it when I heard it. I was watching 'SportsCenter' with one of my boys -- he plays ball, too - and we were like, ‘That’s part of the game. It’s nothing new.’”

... you're welcome. I read the entire thing, twice, just to be sure, and it's several minutes of my life that I will never be able to get back. The key misperceptions in your 'perspective' have been addressed for the most part, so I won't go into those.

I'm left wondering how old you are, how long you've been a fan of the NFL, and what life-experiences and/or sources you base your 'perspective' on.

Only the future will tell if you're a troll or not ... why not get over to the Welcome Wagon/Defend your Handle threads and introduce yourself, VL?

how many teams in history have played a "home" game in the opponents building??? I only know of 1...but we are not singled out huh...that game vs the Giants could have(and should have) been played in a neutral site...but NOOOOO...we played in their building

Sure we could play the "punishment precedent set in other circumstances card".

Sure we could play the "proof that it happens in many if not every organization card".

But these have already been discussed ad nauseum.

The penalty is what it is now and I guess we wait and see what comes down on the players. Once again, more adversity but frankly nothing we cannot prevail from and still succeed. The best way to respond is simply to go win football games despite this joke of a ruling.

And why is it a joke beyond the arguments already discussed (which is more than enough)? First off it has been openly discussed and confirmed that as early as 2009 the NFL was investigating the Saints and other teams about alleged bounty programs. They have also admitted they instructed Mickey Loomis to see these practices ceased and this was to be communicated down through the team's heirarchy. As a result, Loomis, Payton and Vitt were all suspended for being knowledgeable about an illegal activity and failing to take reasonable steps to eliminate it.

Pardon me if I fail to interpret legal protocol relative to this, but isn't what Roger Goodell and the NFL did from 2009-2011 exactly what Loomis, Payton and Vitt did? Knew about something, took no diligent actions to stop it and brushed it under the table? Goodell knew we were doing this. Rather than respond in a manner an impartial and upholding governing body should, he chose to hide it, try to get it to go away without too much awareness.

All Goodell has done is show he looks out for the best interests of the league as a business. The only time he cares about player safety or anything moral about the game is when it can impact the financial bottom line. As said earlier, the NFL has repeatedly circumvented medical research to secure profits at the expense of player health. Only when public pressure and player lawsuits get too much media attention does it start to hit the league pocket and responses are generated to protect finances first and players second.

Roger Goodell....where is your suspension? Who polices the police? Corruption is obvious and Goodell is the Paterno of this situation.

Velet, your opinion is welcomed. Everyone is welcome here at this site. I can promise you that.
I wish other fans from other teams would come by and read. READ. Read and post.

Your points missed.

1-Everyone here is angry at GW. He wasn't even part of this coaching staff the whole time under Sean Payton.
We all were angry when he said about , "Don't forget me shots for PM" to SB media .
People here have slammmed GW over this pass year for an overall lacking defense. Anger is directed where it should be first and foremost.

2-Sean Payton was wrong. We have all said that over and over. How much did he know? When did he know? What did GW hide from him? Why did Sean P, it seemed, fired, well, pushed, well, so say it nicely, had GW resign for St. Louis ? This seemed then it was one of those sweet parting ways of when one side lets the other save face. That SF game is one the Saints should not have lost. They , the Saints' offense, came back. Back And BACK!
Saints defense, ehhh, not so much. No hustling for tackles. Reach. Extend your arms. Run. Nah. A bit on the lazy side.
Sort of throws the Saints almighty and deadly bounty thing out. Really.

3-Vicodin thing. Much to do about nothing because if it was, Gooodell would have.
Showing up late for media day, so what. Saints were the underdog team anyway. They cannot play outside and away from the SD , right. I am sure the media had their hands full with interviewing the SB champs Colts, LOL!

4-All NFL teams were told that the bounty thing was no longer accepted. Stop it. Saints did not. Got punished for it. We Saints fans agree with that. The punishment is way too severe and is one-sided. So GBay did not lie. Coverup. Ok, lying is a bad thing. Still, you don't get by for a wrong if you don't lie about it. Lying makes it twice as worst in punishment. Doing a wrong is still grounds for punishment. You do not get a pass for doing wrong and being honest about it.

5-What , where are these complaints from other teams against the Saints' organization for being consistently dirty? Illegal plays? Huh?
Saints play no more, no less tackle football than any other team.
I noticed you said, "star qb's. " That is what half of this stems from. The Saints had the nerve to tackle Bret Farve. Are we still on this?
Farve's injuries were ugly. No doubt. Those were legal hits. Profootball is a contact and dangerous sport. Even a player acting alone is dangerous. Have you thought about how these guys do rollovers? Backflips? Sideflips? Jump and extend their bodies, propel themselves a few feet? These guys are on an average 6"4, 300 lbs and not are 4"8, 95 lbs. gymnastics pros.

6-The Katrina thing. Yes, the rest of the country is tired of hearing about the Saints' SB win and Katrina. How the team and city bounced back after the hurricane. Yeah, guess what. We here have Katrina overkill too. Poeple here, like my family who lost it, laugh at it. Have moved on. People here have moved on and moved on a few years ago.
I have heard some people say the Saints won because of Katrina. Absurd. So all the NFL teams let the Saints win. The refs did not call penalties on the Saints and the other players all let the Saints win. Ok. Oh boy. When will it end.
Saints were a nothing team in a small market going no where for all those years, even when they had the 8-8, 9-7 , WC playoff games, and no one cared or thought about the Saints. Now, they won the big one and have been at the top for this spell, they have fans and haters. That happens when you win. Part of the game. I get that.
Even the NFL went after tee-shirt venders with court orders to stop sale of silly shirts. Saying has been around for decades. Saints used it for years. Nothing. Saints won the NFC and then, NFL lawyers on notice. Comical.

7-Player safety is utmost concern for NFL under Goodell. I agree.
So why is helmet to helmet head butt ok at times but not all of the times. In SF game, a SF49'er clearly helmet to helmet butted a Saints' player and it was legal. It was a legal hit because it was at a certain game and play. Huh? I found that really confusing. Yeah, our Saints 'player had a lil concussion or at least saw stars. He was dizzy and out.

8-The bounty thing was wrong and wrong in wording. Same thing teams still do but the wording is different.
NFL should be concerned about player safety. No real fans want to see people injured. That is why it is an awful feeling, sickening feeling when a player, your team or not, is lying down and the staff comes out all around him. It is quiet. It always feels like an hour. People cheer when the guy moves his feet side to side. Raises hands. Even if a player is stabilized and carted off, he moves his hands, feet and people cheer. Relief. Who cares if he cannot play profootball anymore. He can walk. Profootball is a temporary career lasting for about, maybe five years for most people.
NFL needs to get tough, strict of rapist, dead beat dads, drug addicts, dog fighters, criminals. I would like to see football, a privilege career, not a right , become this way.

9-You bet we hope the Saints come back strong this year. I think they can. Nothing makes you tougher when you have to be. When you have something to proove, you get tough. Focused.

Well spoken but I disagree. GW has been doing this for a while. Where is the punishment of washington, Bills and Tenn? Also, their has been players that KILLED people and got the same time. There has been drug addicts with multiple suspensions with less suspended time. A bounty program is stupid anyway. Why pay people extra when they make 10 mil a year! The NFL has become spoiled. You imagine this punishment in the 70's when the Steelars defense was so dominant? They went out every week to hurt people and admitted it!I think it's crap. Players want to win and want big hits.
If and its a BIG IF a suspension is warranted many other teams left in the wake of GW should get the same punishment.

Thanks for posting. Misdirected and misunderstood but fairly descriptive. The Steelers, The Titans, The Ravens, the 49ers, The Eagles, GB, come to mind rather quickly as teams that play the game more violently than all the other teams. You tell me that Harrison and Polomalo don't get paid for those hits with a straight face. But oh no, the Saints better not come up into that eschelon of physical hard hitting teams. Teams started hating us for playing the kind of ball YOUR team has been playing for decades, how dare us. But, here are some points in your post that I don't agree with just to be polite.

1. This is NOT about the Saints being special and not needing to follow the rules. This is about why are the Saints the ONLY ONES that need to follow the rules?

2. See my comments on Harrison and Polomalo and add to that the cheap shot artist Hines Ward. You know lots of teams want those guys thrown out of the league too, so your team isn't spotless and just may not stand up to an investigation but Goodell won't investigate the Steelers, they have too much GLORIUS history.

3. This arrogance by the Saints that you speak of is rampant throughout the league, including the commissioner, not just the Saints, see Oakland, GB, Dallas, Steelers, Ravens, Titans etc., why shouldn't coach Payton refuse to stop doing something that EVERY team in football does, so that he can make his team competitive? If you can't play the same way as the rest of the teams, you can't be competitive.

4. Have you ever considered that Sean Payton was late to media day because he was so nervous that he couldn't sleep. Especially considering the fact that he was going to pull the "AMBUSH" play against one of the BEST teams in football, against the Almighty Peyton Manning? Or that he was up so late with the game plan that he over slept? Yet you, the NFL, the Media and and the rest of the self righteous bumpkins misinterpret is as arrogance? That's pretty presumptious don't you think?

5. Green Bay was found to have run the SAME type of bounty system, no different than ours, and were given a competitive advantage by Goodell and the NFL by being told AFTER THEY WON THE SUPER BOWL. Therefore, GB's Super Bowl is as tainted as ours if you look at it that way. Additionally, Goodell, knowing that they did the SAME THING we and the rest of the league did, chooses to punish ONLY THE SAINTS. You don't see anything wrong with that? Maybe because your team isn't so spotless and cannot stand up to the same scrutiny that we have endured. We were SELECTIVELY signled out for punishment by Goodell. Our anger is VERY WELL PLACED, because until EVERY team is investigated and punished, this incident, yes, incident is purely, selective, discriminating and intended to solely cripple only one team out of 32 teams with the rest given amnesty. That sir is BS.

6. For YEARS we have tried to hire a top DC. We had a chance to hire one of the BEST DC's in the game. One who played defense with physicality and hard hits and a take no prisioners approach, just like the Titans when Williams was there, the Ravens, the Steelers etc., etc., etc. We finally were able to get one of the top defensive coaches in football over the last 12 years. Gregg Williams had to be given $250,000.00 of Sean Paytons money to sign., he had to be given complete control over the defense or he wouldn't sign. We spent the majority of our picks over those 3 years trying to get better defensive players for GW to work with. I guess GW felt that he had to do something to get better play from his existing and the few new players we aquired for him and instituted the bounty system. That bounty system however STILL has not proven intent, nor actuality of our players intentionally going out to hurt any player with any more malice than any other player or team in the league. If you look at game tape you'll see that. We were even complimented for NOT taking a shot on an exposed QB even though it would have been legal with the comment that what we had done showed CLASS, not MALICE. When Goodell came down and told Benson to stop the program, Benson told his GM to see to it. I'm sure Loomis told Sean Payton who at the end of last season was hearing the rumors that GW was going to jump ship if his BFF Jeff Fisher got a HC job and so Payton, trying his best to keep GW so that his players and the new acquisitions they were looking to get this year could grow more in the defensive scheme and so that GW would stay, which as we all saw did not happen. So Sean Payton took a calculated risk of showing his DC bravado and a willingness to stand by him and cover up what he was doing but to tune it down because they were being investigated, but it was already too late, because the SNITCH ratted out the team (You should pray that doesn't happen to YOUR team). So Payton tried to do what he was supposed to do and was told to do while still trying to keep his DC. I agree that it was wrong but I understand why he did it. Again, why do the Saints have to follow rules the rest of the league don't.

7. If Goodell is scared of pending lawsuits from retired players because mommy didn't protect them, his investigation alone could provide him with his defense. Continuing the investigations and going back as far as necessary for his defense, proving bounty systems league wide would make any pending lawsuits moot. There was no need to single out one team in the entire league to punish and make an example of.

8. Finally, if you need evidence of Goodell's and the NFL's manipulation on the outcomes of games you need to watch a lot of game with a non bias attitude and look at what penalties are called against what team and whether that same penalty was not called on the winning team, or the ruling of a fumble that everyone knows was a fumble yet the ball was given to the winning team. This has happened so many times it cannot be just mistakes by the officials. Another example, Ed Hocculi and his crew throw more flags on average per game than any other crew. And finally, look at the 06 Super Bowl.

We appreciate other fans coming to our forums and discussing things, but in this instance your view point is as narrow as those who condemn us without really looking at the facts objectively. We have been through more BS than your team EVER HAS. I know, I was a Steelers fan back in the day before we had a team. I liked them because of Hacksaw Renolds, Mean Joe Green and because the played a tough hard hitting take no prisioners defense, so don't hate us because we're trying to be like you. Also, try looking at this as if it were YOUR team getting destroyed by a selfrighteous punk like Goodell. There was no need for this. He already changed the entire game because of the crybaby Vikings now all he wants is a scapegoat and to make an example of the Saints because he feels like we disrespected him. If we did, it was no more than EVERY other team in the league. You can't make only one team follow rules you don't enforce on every team. Sorry for such a long post.

It's definitely also quite hypocritical how the NFL Network, NFL.com, even NFL Films and pretty much every media outlet highlight and showcase the "huge hits" of the day, week, year, all time, etc. On many of these players were injured, many of them were illegal hits. But I guess it sells and generates them money so it doesn't matter that it's tainted with their hypocrisy.

As said, offering a $1000 spliff to a guy for making the same hit he'd have always made when he makes thousands per minute in his life is like me offering you a penny. It's meaningless to them.

Saints were in the lower half of the league for penalties, they didn't cause anyone injury where games were missed, almost every other team had more suspensions for illegal hits. This situation, while agreeably immoral, affected the game not one little bit. The severity of the punishment is a complete joke. It was an overreacting railroading by an overzealous commish who needed to make an extreme example to avoid looking like a chump himself. He's having a hard time hiding behind his veil because very few think the guy is a good commish.