Aren't Intentions Measured by Results?
 

I always believed you judge what a person believes by what they actually do, not what they say. Is there any statistical evidence that we injured more players or got flagged for late or illegal hits more often than average? I'm not defending GW, but maybe there's some truth to Hugh Douglas saying everyone in the locker room knew it was just talk and no one actually targeted a head or ACL if there's no evidence we ACTUALLY caused these injuries. Of course, the two most obvious were Warner and Farve, but lets be fair, both hits were legal and both men were VERY old.

By the way, haven't checked in in a couple days, so please merge if we already talked about this.

The Saints were flagged a lot for roughing the passer, late hits, etc, but that was mainly because of all the blitzing the Saints did.

It really doesn't matter what we did, we've been punished and then appeals denied. It's over, we must move on...

We won't be the last team to suffer over-extending punishments.

I want some company in my misery! LOL

Alaska

Agreed. This is far from over.

... I think you guys are right, this is just 'tip of the iceburg' with Goodell establishing just what level he can impose punishments on a team. The league has been put on notice and god help repeat-offenders.

I'll doublecheck, but I read we were right about middle of the pack as far as personal fouls and fines go.

Don't try to rationalize it in any other way than an action taken by a corporation with the intention of using it as evidence in their favor when the ex-player lawsuits go to court. No more, no less.

What baffles the mind is that so many people willingly go along with the charade. So-called sports writers, fans, corporate sponsors, even some ex-players turned talking heads... Really, how can you be a sports reporter with locker room access for 20 years and not know about this stuff and that it happens everywhere? How can you be a fan of football and don't understand the mentality of the game, the violence of the game? How many more war references can a corporation make about its product, yet want people to believe there's no one actually trying to hurt the other? (so ironic that the new uniforms are the "combat" line from Nike, no? I guess they meant "combat" as in "pillow fight")

I guess this goes with the whole 'holier than thou" culture in the US: we want our celebrities and politicians to be pure, always say the right things. Same reason the porn industry is a multi-billion dllr industry but no one watches it.

Oops. double post.

I know, I know! And what is the brand or icon of the league, that they keep hyping and defending? The shield. As in, gladiators and knights, both of whom routinely fought to the death. The league uses war references and metaphors of violence to shamelessly hype and promote their product, at every turn since its very founding, then suddenly does an enormous about face in 2010, when the lawsuits come around.

Nope.... If you hired a contract killer and put a bounty on Goodells head but there was a whistle on the play, you would still go to jail for conspiracy to knock Goodell out of the game.

Sorry to nerd it up, but evidence of mitigation following the act can't be used in favor of or against in a law suit. But it WILL poison the jury pool. By the time it goes to trial, years from now, jurors won't remember that all this cracking down happened AFTER the lawsuit was filed.

Sorry to nerd it up, but evidence of mitigation following the act can't be used in favor of or against in a lawsuit. But it WILL poison the jury pool. By the time it goes to trial, years from now, jurors won't remember that all this cracking down happened AFTER the lawsuit was filed.

On they knew. They know. A borderline retard would know. The reason they go along with it is money.

Their bottom lines are tied directly to kissing the ass of the NFL. The league could make has been hacks out of just about every sports "reporter" claiming that job title. Not all, but damn near all...

Clayton is a hack beat reporter without his "insider" info. Yasinskas is flipping burgers. King is reviewing movies for some east coast paper.

Those guys have to be VERY careful, and you can better believe Goodell knows it.

If this case were in a court of law you could certainly argue that "threats of intention" do not match the evidence of outcome.
Key word here is "If".
But in a dictatorship the *despot decides the outcome. And if the despot concludes that his minions have not fully cooperated with his inquiry in a matter that may lead to sanctions on his politbureau, then the dictator must punish the subordinate minions in full view of those who might impose sanctions in an attempt to avoid a monetary penalty on his kingdom.

*Goodell

This would never make it to court...

No need to be sorry for nerding it up. That's what I really wanted to say; they can use this action in the future in front of a jury/judge/arbitrator and argue they are all about safety and while they cannot 100% prevent the "rogue factions" from "ntentionally hurting players", they are "swift" in eradicating them from the NFL. Also, it is a show for the benefit of those in Congress who poked at the NFL in 2009, so they don't come back asking what's up.

Exactly, a lie is still a lie and they got busted. Take our medicine and move on stronger.

It reminds me of an old Gene Stallings quote...

Don't evaluate someone by what they say they're going to do, evaluate them by what they've actually done.

I actually really appreciate the title of this thread and would like to know if anybody out there has really "nerded it up" by compiling things like number of personal fouls/roughing the QB/late hits/etc, injuries caused etc for every team in th NFL over the last three seasons and comparing the Saints with the rest of the league. My impression of watching our boys and watching other NFL games is that we would be far below teams like the Steelers, Titans, and others. Which, if true, raises the question: who cares about a "bounty" program if it didn't result in more injuries/penalties/etc? What if it was a motivational tool and not really an actual program?

Deuce, it's all right here, the Wall Street Journal already reviewed every regular- and postseason Saints game since 2009, and it's an interesting read:

"Little Booty in Saints' Bounties: A Study of Game Film Shows There Weren't That Many Knockout Hits"
The Bounty Investigation: Saints' Bounties Produced Little Booty - WSJ.com

I think the key word here is "intent".

You can't prove players intent. They have tape of what Williams said. As far as what happened on the field, there is really nothing out of the ordinary. The Saints were very middle of the pack when it came to penalties.

The success of this team has very very little to do with what happened on Defense. This goes to show that if Williams would have put a little more effort into solid tackling, technique and proper scheme and less effort into "take his head off" crap, we might have two Superbowls, or even three by now.

BUT critically the Saints were far from the worst in any of the last 3 years or the sum of the 3 years.

Where to now?

I am wondering.

When will the NFL thought police start fining trash talkers?