Defensive player suspensions
 

Is it possible that the league has told teams that have or want to sign Saints FAs, if that player is going to be suspended?

Maybe the league will wait until the FA period is over and only suspend the players that are still with the Saints and fine the ones that went to a new team.

I doubt anyone knows anything about suspensions, and I'm thinking more fines than suspensions will be handed out. Vilma is the only name I've heard about actually having a direct hand in the bounties

I don't think Goodell has a clue what he's going to do with the players. That's what is taking so long. Here's something I just posted on a Niners board I belong to:

How do we know Vilma put up anything? We were told that he said something referencing it.

How do we know Anthony Hargrove collected anything after his "pay me" rant? Could it all not have been locker room bravado?

Is there any wonder why it is taking so long for Goodell to rule on the players? He suspended the front office staff for lying. He can't do the same for the players because reportedly, other than Hargrove, none have even been interviewed. If he had real evidence shouldn't he have acted before now?

I am not saying that nothing went on. I am saying this is America and a common belief is that you are innocent until proven guilty.

Right now Goodell has probably backed himself in between rock and a hard place. On one side he has the lawsuits from former players which was why he came down so hard on the Saints. On the other hand he has Saints players waiting for word on what's coming down based upon the unprecedented punishment already applied. If he doesn't have ironclad proof of individual player involvement the NFL is open to litigation over any penalties applied in their direction.

We all know that the NFLPA has brought on board one of the best labor law teams in the world to represent their union's members. Perhaps it is to let the league know they will not stand for railroading of their members.

How do we know Anthony Hargrove collected anything after his "pay me" rant? Could it all not have been locker room bravado?

Could Hargrove's reference to 'pay me' been getting another playoff check?

If I was a team wanting to sign a Saints defensive player that might be suspended, I would want a definitive answer before I used a roster spot on him and also missing out on another player they may have wanted!

I think that the involvement of the NFLPA has made this much more complicated than what it was with the initial punishments for staff personnel and the organization.

It'll probably be another power struggle between the league's governing body and the players' association, which is why we may have to wait up until the very eve of the draft to hear any conclusive announcements on the issue.

Who knows... it might even drag on further than the draft, regardless of how big of an inconvenience it'll be for the Saints' organization.

The NFL can't prove anything. Do they have video or money transactions that show players getting paid? Do they have some form of accounting sheets. I bet not.

I think the NFLPA got involved to make it too complicated, also including lawyers.... In the hopes of making it so big, Goodell levies low $ fines to get it over with.

True, but if I remember correctly, Goodell had no judicial reason to get the NFLPA involved in the first place.

He chose to ask for their statement in regards to the situation out of courtesy, but in reality he probably had no choice in the matter - which was reflected in the way the league refused to delay the initial punishments when the NFLPA asked them to, so that they could carry out their own investigations.

I don't know if Goodell has to get an approval from the NFLPA in regards to the punishments (if any) he levies on the individual players involved or if the NFLPA has a realistic chance to appeal any possible punishments by the league.

If the suspensions come out after the draft then its going to be very hard to not think that the Goddell is trying to slam the Saints in any possible way that he can, IMO this will be just like the Star Caps situation, where they levy a punishment and then it takes 2-3 years for the punished players to actually pay their penalty due to appeal after appeal in the courts

I doubt Goodell even knows what actions he'll take. He doesn't really have the free hand (thanks NFLPA) that he did w/ management.

The Star Caps was a completely different type of a case, and the reason why it took so long for the punishments to be finally served and why the appeal process took so long is that it was all about the interpretation of letter of law - in this case the the substance abuse rules of the NFL.

They had to determine whether or not the ingredients in the Star Caps product were on the list of prohibited substances, which is more difficult in practice than just looking at the list to see if the main components appear on the prohibited substances list - at least that is my understanding and I do not have a degree in chemistry, so I don't know how they in the end it all worked out.

I think this Bountygate thing should be more cut & dry when it comes to which players were guilty of having been involved in the PFP program, either contributing to or getting funds from the pool - that is if the league has concrete evidence of such behavior against any players. The more difficult thing is probably determining the type and level of potential punishments the league wants to hand out and to what degree i.e. do they want to punish everyone or just the "ring leaders?"

Legally, the NFL could be sued if they inhibited a players value and opportunity to sign for a maximum amount of money by "speculating" on discipline...

Now once the suspension takes place, it's another matter...

Some good points. I'm sure Goodell has given guidelines to the other owners. Would you sign a player about to be suspended?
He's stuck with his own BS. Why didn't he show proof to the NFLPA?
Now if he comes down hard he will have to show evidence in arbitation. If he's too soft he shows he just covered the NFL owners butt for future law suits. He did it at the expense of the Saints.
Every day that goes by is additional time lost by the Saints to prepare for the draft and get what's left in FA. He only has 13 more days. What an idiot.

PS. Dont think we will forget about the other teams that have admitted bounties!

Have they admitted bounties, or just stated that it goes on everywhere?

Its splitting hairs for you and me, but probably not to commissioner sh!thead.

How is the players that were involved so cut and dry? Show me a picture or video of Vilma actually putting money on a table before the NFCCG or better show me a picture of Remi getting a cash payment from Vilma or GW

Goddell wanted a war, well the NFLPA is going to give him a war

It's probably a good thing that the rulings have not been handed down yet. That indicates a better chance that Saints players will not be handed suspensions. On the flip side, I really do believe that Jon Vilma is going to miss the entire 2012 season, and Malcolm Jenkins probably 8 games. I am most certain at least 10 other players will be hit with 1 or 2 game suspensions. It is obvious that Goodell is going to make an example out of this. I seriously hope that I am wrong, but I do believe Goodell is going to run with this. He honestly has no choice, retired players are lining up to sue the NFL. I am like really?

Enjoy it folks, the NFL may go away in 20 years.

I think it's going to be too hard to nail down that many individual players with real proof and with the NFLPA in the mix, as has been pointed out. That being the case, Goodell went all out after the coaches and management ... that would be how you handle something like this in a large organization where the subordinates run wild ... the leadership of an organization is ultimately held accountable for the actions of the troops regardless of whether they know about it or not.

It is cut & dry if - like I said stated above - the league has concrete evidence against a certain player braking the salary rules by being engaged in one way or another in the pay-for-performance program.

If they can prove a violation, then there's not much debating over whether it actually violates the salary rules and the code of conduct guideline NFL delivers to the teams annually.

Whereas with the Star Caps case it wasn't cut & dry because of the reasons I already went over.

And we if we were to compare the Star Caps case with the Bountygate case, then we would have to assume that there's concrete evidence against certain players involved with the Bountygate, because there was concrete evidence against certain players in the Star Caps case i.e. positive drug test results. Otherwise, it would be pointless to even compare the two, since the circumstances/variables between the two cases would be too different for the purpose of a valid comparison.

I agree, unless of course there is a paper trail that actually says _________ got $1500.
I'll go back to what MANY have said: where were the injuries, cart-offs, knockouts, whatever? Seriously, how many 'bounties' were really paid?

Goodell is hanging his hat on intent!

He doesn't care if any Saints players received one red cent!

I agree that Vilma will probably get a year-suspension; if Goodell has proof of his 'cash' offer, if wouldn't be surprised if he gets a lifetime ban.

Still the NFLPA will try to fight any punishments that would set an undesirable precedent for the future, which could potentially give the league even more power over the players and their association/union.

22-27 current and retired players with no idea who? Plus godell waiting until when, the season starts to announce it? Is our offense expected to play both ways? Not that Drew probably wouldn't make a hell of a CB but... I still think it's that corporate rat bastard's way of giving us a post season ban.

My thoughts as well.
Just make a decision, let me complain about it and move on already. I know that this story will follow the Saints and it's fan base forever but I'm ready for this crap to be over.

It's frustrating for sure, but we can look at it from the positive perspective of the longer it takes for the league to announce any suspensions, the more probable it would seem that there won't be many of them or that they won't be severe in nature - otherwise it would certainly seem that there is a malice intent behind delaying their announcement.

The only "bright side" I see is because of the threat of the suspensions, we have totally retooled our LB group. Not sure if it's just because of Spagnoulo or the suspensions, but whatever...

And the extended length of the suspension ruling has me thinking that the NFLPA has made Goodell rethink his decision: almost like he was planning to be really harsh and the 'PA said "Not So Fast"!

I think it's clear that Spags wanted to make some changes in the LB corps, and I think we all agree that he needed to.

But more than that I think we can derive from the moves that have been made and ones that haven't been - i.e. letting Dunbar sign elsewhere - that the Saints didn't have the required personnel to run Spags' schemes.

It seems that Spags really wants a thumper MLB, which Lofton and Hawthorne clearly are, while probably decreasing the role the SS and FS will have in the run defense.

With guys like Lofton, Hawthorne, and Wilson it seems like these guys will be solid in the second tier of the run defense and also if the front 4 can tie up some people, we could very well see them occasionally break through to make some plays behind the line of scrimmage.

It would be awesome to add a 100% healthy Vilma into the mix, that would simply give Spags a group which could adjust to pretty much any situation while having very high quality rotation.

the longer delay could help if it extends to the summer. Each of the players could appeal in intervals, so all hearings could not happen at once and we could stagger the suspensions.
My thought is that they are nowhere ready to rule bc no one has spoken to the players yet.