I'm guessing you meant to say Matthew Stafford?

Yes, I did :) Thanks for pointing that out.

You know what? If you can't have an intelligent discussion without coming off as a cocky, know it all punk, then why should I continue to bother telling you what i think?

I said the tackles were weak, not the entire offensive line. And in case you have been asleep, we've added two really good linebackers along with Bunkley to help Solidify that defense. What we need is a pass rush, and we didn't get a pass rusher in Hicks. If he pans out he would help push the pocket some, and that would be good, but we need guys who specialize in rushing the QB. However, I believe that with Galette, Wilson, Romeus and maybe even Cam Jordan, there is a good young core of players that Spagnuolo will bring up and make them good pass rushers. Now you can disagree with that if you want, but a lot of people agree with that sentiment, it's not just me.

I would have had no problem with a DT there if it had been someone I thought had a chance to help us more than Massie. I would have liked to see them take Jared Crick, but apparently they didn't want him. You forget that we got in a hole last year against the 49ers because the offense kept turning it over. We were one dimensional the whole game and they got after Brees, and we made a lot of mistakes. To their credit, they fought back, but THEN the defense collapsed. And who was it that got beat repeatedly in those last two drives? Harper and Jenkins... Can't blame that one on Rogers and Franklin as bad as they may have been at times last year.

Every position is important, and when you have a chance to get a really good player, you get him. The Saints wanted Hicks more than any other player, so there's nothing more to say about it. I just thought I'd throw my two cents in like everyone else, but obviously you are determined to disagree with everything I say. I don't need you to agree with me.

And lastly, I saw whatever footage was available, whether it be NFL.com or youtube, or whatever. What does it matter, exactly, where I see it? It's there to be seen, and I saw it. Are you going to tell me I wasn't looking at the same player? What are you basing your opinion on? Have you personally scouted him? Every piece of information that you've gotten on him is the same thing that is available to everyone else, and I'm going with what I can see and read. You're a hypocrite if you think you have any more right to assume you know what kind of player he is, or will be, than I do. And I don't EVEN assume he won't be good, I just have serious doubts. Is that ok? He's a nice prospect, but I didn't want him there. But just as I don't need you agreeing with me, the Saints don't need anyone to agree with them. It's just an opinion, now move on.

His Senior Bowl performance was pretty impressive. The dude moves REALLY well for how big he is. Plays much too high... and I thought it was interesting that at Regina he lined up mostly on the outside as a DE... but guy can really rush the passer. My guess is that's why we drafted him, to try and increase our pass rush.

No, I haven't. And neither have you. You saw a couple clips posted here and there, read a couple things this guy and that guy wrote about him (and this and that guy likely didn't scout him either).

And I do remember the offense turning the ball over against the Whiners, but I also remember the Whiners going very conservative on offense after they went up 17-0. And when the chips were down, when the only thing the defense needed was 1 stop out of 4 defensive stands in the 4th quarter, they couldn't do it, including an 80-yard TD drive by Alex Smith with 1:32 on the clock.

The point I am trying to make is very simple:
Offense has been awesome.
Defense has been horrible.
Get whatever is needed ( or whatever Spagnuolo thinks is needed) to fix the reason why the Saints don't have at least 3 rings today.

As for this Massie fellow, well, he doesn't exactly come with Muñoz or Roaf or Pace credentials either, does he? He may have been rated the 7th or 8th "best" tackle in the draft, but what does that tell you, really? What makes you so sure to say an inconsistent tackle leaving college early is going to solidify anything?

I am glad you guys are on a forum an not one of our coaches.

I still like this pick even after some time has passed and I've been able to think about it some more.

In the NFL Network's draft coverage show, Mayock said this about Hicks when they were evaluation all the picks of all the teams division by division - word for word:


So, all in all I'm happy with this pick because DT was a major need for them, and while he might not make a big impact his first year as he needs to be coached up quite a bit - he might be a big contributor in the 2013 season when Ellis presumably, barring an excellent 2012 season, will be gone.

In general, I think the Saints addressed most of the needs they had with a DT, WR, S, G, and a T. Although I would've liked to see them draft a CB, at least they got a safety in White. Tiller the guard is a massive human being, but they might have to get the NOLA restaurants to boycott him because he was over 400 pounds at one time in his career, but then dropped 70 to 80 pounds, so he might have a tendency to pick up pounds if not careful. And Jones the tackle, the Saints have done well with Nebraska O-Linemen, so he might at least be a solid depth guy for them going forward. And the more video I've watched of Toon, the more I like that particular pick.

You are so self righteous, it is incredible. No, of course I didn't scout him either. I can only go on everything that has been said, and what I have been able to see of him. And the point I made was extremely simple. You didn't scout him, so you are going on the same information I have. That was the point. I don't need you to say "you didn't scout him either", when the subject was about you, not me. I never pretended to know everything about him, but who among us does? So if you can say you think he's gonna be good, I can say the opposite, can't I? As for Massie, he was graded as a second rounder which makes him a lot better than the 7th or 8th best tackle, but as an LSU fan I have also seen him play in the SEC and I always thought of him as a first round talent. Clearly, he was someone we could have worked with.

And you dodged the point about the 49er game. I asked you who got burned twice at the end... The safeties. I don't care how conservative their game plan was, it was still the safeties who blew it, along with GW's stupid decision to blitz and leave them on an island. Our defense WAS bad, absolutely. Again, we've already done a lot to fix that through free agency. But whatever man, keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better than me. I'm just a fan.

You two take it to the smacktalk board, I'm tired of reading the nonsense

I am not dodging anything. The safeties got burned because indeed GW sent everyone but the safeties to blitz, and obviously none of the blitzers got to the QB, no? The guys in the middle didn't make a strong push to collapse the pocket or take a second defender with them.

Anyway...

Dude, believe what you will, I've said my peace and then some.

and Mitch, sorry man, but if you don't like it you don't have to read it. When someone takes initiative to talk down to me over not liking a pick, I will defend myself. It's BS that a fellow Saints fan would want to start an argument with me over nothing.

lol, he's got a point mitch. They both have a right to defend their positions. Kind of a reason why you have a thread in the first place. Wether or not you want to hear it, is where you should get off your comfortable horse and stop reading. lol

A thread without opposing views where one guy gets banned, if its not completely pro saints, is the saintsreport I thought.

burningmetal has a point of view thats not popular, but more than that, he's supporting it by posting against anyone that post against him. Its possible he's just being confrontational , supporting a view with no reason for sake of argument. OR its possible everyone else is. But thats why we have threads. To further our own knowledge and personal development, be proven wrong or right, or not sure. To listen or be listened to. Ramble, say what we think we mean, and get ripped apart. Its all good. :)

The guys that post and defend their arguments without listening to others get a reputation as being useless to talk to, and their future opinions get greatly devalued. Guys willing to work things out and see the others point of view go on to be important to the black and gold, like you mitch. Which might be why its bothering you,lol. Your not seeing either side let up, and that can get annoying.
No you don't know what Im say..
No you don't know what Im say..
No I didn't mean that..
No I didn't mean that..
Your saying..
No Im not saying that..
What are you saying..
It gets old after awhile when people only read what they want to read in a post and not what was posted.
I completely get where you coming from. But you have to admit, its pretty funny sometimes :)

Why I originally liked the idea of picking one of the three: Randall, Wolfe or Hicks in this year's draft is that they all have a very tall frame with great "wingspan."

Hicks being 6-5 and having the arm length of 35+ inches and the hand length of 10+ inches - even if he doesn't get to the QB through the interior, he can always put his hands up and swat/pat the pass out of the air.

Miller (6-4), Johnson (6-3), Bunkley (6-2), King (6-2), and Ellis (6-1) are not tall enough or athletic enough (Miller) to provide the same type of pass interference as someone with the measurables of Hicks.

Putting f.e. Hicks and Johnson on the field at the same time on passing downs could potentially make passing down the middle much harder for even taller QBs like Freeman. That is kind of what Spags did in NY with someone like Chris Canty, so therefore, I thought that since the Saints lacked a DT of such stature on their roster, they'd try to pick someone like that from the draft.

Even someone like Rogers was able to pat down a pass or two this past season if I remember correctly, but although he had the height to do it, he lacked the athleticism to do it effectively nor did he have the ideal body frame for it either. And, I seriously doubt that Swanson Miller will see anything else than practice squad time this coming season if all things go as planned - he might even end up being cut again.

If its nothing why are you arguing about it ? Don't make points that make your point look silly. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. I would like to be entertained by this argument at some point. :)

I think this pick is a very interesting one. With the Saints not having a 1st or 2nd, I would think that they would have spent a considerable more amount of time looking at lower round prospect than other teams, therefore I would assume that they would have a better feel for some of these "diamonds in the rough" than others. I do understand some of the concerns that he played in Canada, and by no means is the competition the same, however one also has acknowledge that another Canadian player was drafted in the 4th round by the Chargers a couple years ago (Vaughan Martin) and he is now their starting DT. Seems like his size and stats equally compare.

And Tom Johnson was also acquired from the CFL, and that one Dolphin player who became a star for them, can't remember his name now.

Cameron Wake I believe

The fact that our scouts are even watching the CFL for talent says a lot about how much more advanced we are than other teams in scouting.

Yes, he was the one, thanks! ;-)

True, there are some gems in the CFL, however not that many whom are drafted out of the CIS (Canadian University League). A lot of CFL players (ie. Wake and Johnson) played in a US college (Penn and Michigan), but I can only think of 3 CIS players who are currently are on an NFL team. (Israel Idonije - CHI, Vaughan Martin - SD and Cory Greenwood - KC), with only Vaughan being drafted, the others signed as undrafted FA.

Sorry.... But... The fact that LSU wanted him as badly as he did speaks volumes.

But I wonder how many CIS players were highly recruited US players who were tied up in NCAA eligibility problems and chose the CIS route in lieu of the JUCO route?

I think Hicks is far from your typical CIS player in that regard.

On Akeim Hicks.... Let see...

Calculating splines...


Compiling opinionated hydraulics......


taking winter solstice into account......



tabulating......


surmising........

Hummm Do I go with the opinion of the LSU Tigers, Loomis, and Spagnuolo. or do i go with the much valued opinion of a forum companion.



Sorry... Its the LSU Tigers, Loomis, and Spagnuolo choice that I am going with.

Because I didn't bash anyone for liking the pick, pherein. I said I didn't like the pick and stated why. I thought there were better players available, and I might be right or I might be wrong. That goes for anyone's opinion of anybody the Saints picked.

But a couple people decided that it was so egregious that I didn't like the pick, to jump all over me about reading scouting reports and watching whatever footage there was to see, and drawing my conclusions from that. Just what exactly is everyone else drawing conclusions from? The guy is a project, who some obviously like, but I am not sold. When someone insults my intelligence just because I happen to doubt a player, I get really annoyed, and that's when I decide to speak my mind. There's nothing silly about what I said.

Why would I change my opinion to suit someone else, when it's not what I believe? I see why people have high hopes for him, but I also see reason to doubt. I don't get where that's such a hard thing to understand.

It's up to Hicks to change minds, one way or another.

I don't think you should. I understand your point of view and the majorities. Differences of opinion are always a asset. Even if crazy, in my book. Allows me to work things out in my own head to see if I really believe my own way of thinking, and if I can defend it at all.

I am pretty undecided, but more in the pro Hicks masses. I just don't see a reason to doubt loomie and the coaches just yet. If GW was here, I might doubt, because of the drafts and signings for DL he did last year that didn't make a difference.
But, in the end its really up to Hicks, what he wants, and is willing to do. I just like staying positive and reserving the right to an opinion of him until his second training camp.

I really don't know why anyone expects much from a rookie in the first season.
I mean, a rookie DLman, even in a second season, going up against a 4-8 year veteran OLman is not exactly fair,lol.
Same with Ingram. He needs to learn the system and get used to faster, bigger guys trying to kill him before he can showcase his abilities that made him a special running back.
Some adjusts and most don't.

Most of the NFL are not the Faulks, Mannings, Brees, Sapp's , etc. its mostly good to ok players. Can he be a stable good too ok player. We need them also.

So, just based on raw physical ability and motor, do you think he has a shot to make a career in the NFL at all ?

I kinda like this pick, just because a lot of people don't. I like it when the Saints have guys that no one has ever heard of, when they're signing guys off the streets, who were driving UPS trucks or picked up out of the parking lot of Home Depot, guys from other sports, guys with biiig chips on their shoulder, or even when they call down stadium security guards from the stands to suit them up as running backs. It's kind of a Payton classic "mad genius" thing. I like it.