Ornstein's prison e-mail disputed by NFLPA
 

So, where is the smoking gun again?
Get your resume' together Rog!

Prison email is latest disputed evidence in New Orleans Saints bounty case - ESPN

NEW ORLEANS -- An email from an imprisoned friend of the Saints coaching staff with a postscript saying, "put me down for $5,000" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers, has become another sore point between players being punished for New Orleans' bounty system and the NFL.

The email, obtained by The Associated Press, was written from prison by marketing agent Mike Ornstein shortly before the Saints' 2011 season opener against the Packers. Ornstein once represented Reggie Bush and later got to know members of the Saints' coaching staff.

The bulk of Ornstein's note to the Saints discusses his experiences in prison and offers sometimes brash words of encouragement to various coaches, including then-Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. The last line states: "PS Gregg Williams put me down for $5000.00 on Rogers (sic)." Ornstein now says that was written "in total jest."

Ornstein was sentenced to eight months in federal prison, which he served in Florence, Colo., for conspiring to scalp Super Bowl tickets and hawking fake "game-worn" jerseys. He was released last fall.

"It's a running joke going for three years," Ornstein said in a phone interview this week, explaining that he had been kidding Williams about bounties ever since the NFC championship game in 2010, after which the Vikings told the NFL that they believed the Saints had a bounty on quarterback Brett Favre.

When shown Ornstein's note in its entirety, an attorney for suspended Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma echoed his criticism from earlier this week that the NFL is manipulating evidence to strengthen a weak case.

"Ornstein's email is just another example of the speciousness of the quote-unquote evidence that commissioner (Roger) Goodell claims to have to support his erroneous accusations against Jonathan and the other players," lawyer Peter Ginsberg said. "As more of the evidence is revealed in the media, it is becoming more and more apparent how irresponsible the NFL's actions have been."

The NFL did not immediately respond Thursday evening to a request for comment.

In a report released March 21, the NFL highlighted Ornstein's line about Rodgers, stating that it came in an email Saints head coach Sean Payton received from "a close associate."

Payton and the other coaches on the staff did not receive the email from Ornstein directly, but from team spokesman Greg Bensel, who forwarded it on Sept. 3 to the coaching staff with the subject line: "email from Orny (he asked that I send it) the dude is in prison so I told him I would."

Earlier this week, Ginsberg blasted the NFL's interpretation of a sworn statement by suspended former Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, whose signed declaration explains how Williams and Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt instructed him to deny the existence of a bounty program to NFL investigators.

Mary Jo White, a former U.S. attorney hired by the NFL, has said Hargrove's declaration confirms the existence of a bounty program, and that Hargrove was instructed to lie about it -- and did lie about it -- when first questioned by league investigators.

However, Hargrove, who is now with Green Bay, said this week the NFL mischaracterized his statement, which the AP also obtained. The declaration does not go into specifics about just what Hargrove knew or did not know about a bounty program in New Orleans, and it does not explicitly say that he lied.

The NFL has suspended Williams indefinitely. Now with St. Louis, Williams has apologized publicly for running a pay-for-performance program that he knew was wrong. Payton was suspended for the 2012 season, general manager Mickey Loomis for eight games and Vitt for six. Vitt, who is acting as head coach for most of this season, has said he was punished for tough words he used in motivational talks, but has stressed that Saints players never took the field intending to injure anyone.

Vilma, who was suspended for all of 2012 and Hargrove, who was suspended for half the season, were among four players punished in the NFL's bounty probe. Saints defensive end Will Smith was suspended four games and former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita, now with Cleveland, received a three-game suspension.

All four players are appealing their punishment with the help of the NFL Players Association, which has stated it has not received any hard evidence that players took part in a bounty program.

Richard Smith, the union's lead outside counsel, also decried the NFL's portrayal of Ornstein's email.

"The NFL has not provided the players with any information like this," Smith said. "It is unfortunate that they continue to withhold evidence that can show players' innocence. This email proves what we have feared: what they've been selling to the media as evidence doesn't match up with the truth."

Ornstein's rambling note summarizes his impressions of the team's preseason, then describes his six months in prison as "the tuffest (sic) 6 months of my life for sure." Ornstein writes of how he will be a better father and better person when he gets out. He notes that he lost 55 pounds and tells Saints offensive line coach Aaron Kromer: "No more fat jokes." After offering a variety of advice to various coaches about how to beat the Packers, he writes, "I love you guys. It would be great to be sitting here in this God terrible place and be able to have a smile on my face at least for one night."

He concludes by saying he expected to be released in 18 days and would visit the Saints soon. Then comes the final line about Rodgers.

Now living in Los Angeles, Ornstein said by phone he had joked with Williams about bounties on other star players, including one other time in an email about Cam Newton. He said he never would have pledged the kind of money he joked about for any pay-for-performance program, never mind one that promoted injurious tackles.

"As long as I've worked with people in the NFL, everyone who knows me knows that the only things I've ever done for players is things that help them, not hurt them," Ornstein said. "First of all, I don't have $5,000 to put down. When I wrote that email, I was in jail. How was I going to pay for it? In stamps? I'm in federal jail in Florence."

This is what happens when things & people like this are not crossed examined or questioned. You can't take what people say at face value. However the NFL is trying to do just that. Take everything at face value in order to administer discipline. Those accused are not given the opportunity to defend themselves against these charges or bring evidence to refute what others are saying. They have been accused, tried, convicted and sentenanced without representation. The NFL won't release what they have because they know it will be picked apart in the public venue & by those accused.

Wow... this looks so bad for Der Furher. So what's the over/under on how long before Goodell loses his gig and faces criminal charges of his own?!

The email looked suspect from the start. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't send something of that nature in an email. A system like that would have also produced more emails. Please Roger, please tell us you have real evidence.

[QUOTE=Beastmode;404839]Anyone with half a brain wouldn't send something of that nature in an email.[/QUOTE]


From prison nonetheless, where there's a good chance e-mails are being monitored

Just check his bank accounts. If he had no money then it's a joke. Unless of course he's bartering with juicy fruit.

[quote=savoyk;404841]It was an inside joke.
It wasn't sent to SP or GW. It was forwarded to them.
Btw, just because someone goes to prison doesn't mean everyone they know should cut them out of their life.

True RMS. It just really angers me that Roger propped this up like concrete against a rusty crawfish trap. I'm pissed.

When reached for comment, NFL Commissioner Roger Goddell stated " that last line wasn't followed by a smiley, so he must have meant it".

just how many hundred of 1000's did goodell lose in the 09 superbowl. that clown really just hates the saints for something. did he bet the colts big?

[quote=RockyMountainSaint;404843]
I got that, I think you misinterpreted my response to the previous quote. Was meant to show that it wouldn't be reasonable for him to do what the NFL says he did. Thanks for clearing up for me anyway though

[quote=savoyk;404856]It's the internet. Most Nuance is lost.
My bad for misinterpreting your post.

I certainly agree with your post!

This is why I say ROGER GOODELL MUST BE MADE TO SHOW THE EVIDENCE!!!

Failing that the players should go on freaking strike if that's what it takes to end this, because it won't stop here. Roger is out of control and must be stopped.

[quote=RockyMountainSaint;404857]
Yep! I def see how it could be taken the wrong way. lol!

If Attorney General Eric Holder can disregard Congress' subpoena for proof (Fast & Furious) , why should good ol Rog worry?

I went there.........

The more I see the "evidence" it paints a worse viewpoint of the NFL.

The Hargrove declaration apparently being twisted to what the league wanted to say it stated and proved.
The e-mail from Ornstein appears to have been twisted as well according to the reports.

With this and the original testimony from the NFL regarding concussions it paints a larger picture (IMO) that the league will twist anything to their viewpoint. Just find an attorney to give a report of that viewpoint and they run with it no turning back.

If this turns out to be the case, it makes my viewpoint of the owners worse. Are they looking for nothing but a "YES MAN" for the positions in the league?

In the absence of "LOLZ", its very serious.


Did anyone get to hear Vilma's lawyer Peter Ginsberg on NFL Sirius yesterday around 430? He was on for about 20 mins...

His synopsis is Goodell acted to quickly o evidence he did not have yet and now does not know how to back out of it.

Lots of good stuff. Chances the public will see the evidence is very low as in with Spygate.

He had no money. That's why he was scalping tickets and trying to sell bogus jerseys. He supposedly lost everything on some business venture that went bad.

:puke:

I hate this book. Anyone have the cliff notes?

WE as fans will NEVER see the evidence.

EG. Video gate - tapes were burned.

The Players "may", but the CBA does not have any stipulation in it that ALL evidence has to be shown. I am sure the NFL lawyers believe they have shown "enough" to satisfy any court that they in "good faith" showed "some".


To be quite honest, and I know this is very unpopular sentiment, I hope the evidence never goes public. People WILL read into each piece and take what they want from it.... In other words, their present opinion will not change.


Haterz are going to Hate!

I feel we have already seen, or been told, about all of the evidence.

I agree with Guido. Nothing is going to be forth coming. It will be destroyed along the way.

No. What I am saying is that what we have seen or heard about is all the evidence they ever had.

I agree with Guido, except that we haven't yet learned the details of where exactly the "Vilma putting $10,000 on the table" story came from, or what that evidence is. At least I haven't run across any explanation of where it came from.

... which is why I always use 'smilies' ... :mrgreen: ... ol' Roger will never get nothing on me ... :).

Don't forget the ex-defensive quality control coach, Mike Cerullo, that the Saints fired after the 2009 season. He had opportunity and motive to lie about it.


Former Saints Quality Control Coach Mike Cerullo Accused of Being Bounty Program Whistleblower by Author

Read more at: Former Saints Quality Control Coach Mike Cerullo Accused of Being Bounty Program Whistleblower by Author - NFL - NESN.com


While it remains unclear to most who first blew the whistle on the Saints' bounty program, it's apparently very clear to author and filmmaker Alan Donnes. Donnes, who wrote the book Patron Saints: How the Saints Gave New Orleans a Reason to Believe, said that Mike Cerullo -- a former defensive quality control coach for the Saints -- is the one who leaked the news of the team's bounty program. Donnes was appearing on America's Radio News Network on Tuesday when he made the accusations against Cerullo. The author and filmmaker said that he has multiple sources in the Saints organization, and that it's a well-established theory amongst the New Orleans media that Cerullo is the whistleblower. Cerullo worked as an offensive line assistant, a special teams assistant and as an assistant to defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, but Donnes describes Cerullo as a disgruntled former employee who couldn't find work after the organization let him go. Donnes said Cerullo believed Sean Payton and Williams actually blocked him from getting a job in the NFL. These, of course, are major accusations by Donnes, and ones that should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Plus, the damage has been done, and finding the "snitch" won't really solve a whole lot at this juncture.

Evidence should be published - or all punishment withdrawn...

Enough of this exclusive arbitration schiott; if they are gonna take fans' money, they should be willing to explain to their customers why someone can't be seen for a year...

Damn skippy. That's a good angle, and everybody holding a season ticket for Saints games this year should start formally raising hell.

DEMAND that the NFL produce meaningful evidence that proves Vilma and Smith paid or were paid for illegal hits...or any hits. People paying for the product on the field have every right to know.

Very good JP!

Damn Roger you are a dumbarse

Exactly ... put up or shut-up Goodell ... all this 'act-with-impunity-cloak-&-dagger-prison email' crap is for the birds ... the fans deserve better then to be expected to accept garbage like this without proof or explaination ... this ain't the CIA Football League for crissake ...