A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

A couple of weeks ago interim head coach Aaron Kromer told the media that, "The current group of backs gives us the best chance to win." I'm sorry coach, but that's not true. In the past three years, the Saints have won 60% of the games when Ingram played compared to winning 70% of the games that Ivory played in.

The stats show that Ivory has been a better back for the Saints. Numbers never lie.

Chris Ivory vs. Mark Ingram: Who is the Better Back? - Canal Street Chronicles

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

We shouldn't have traded up to get Ingram, as much as I loved the pick because I instantly thought we'd have the best backfield in the league, Jason Pierre Paul was still on the board and our D line has been suffering for years

I tried to stay positive about Ingram, thinking one day he'll show everyone and atleast rip off a 30, 40 yard TD, still waiting

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

I still believe Ingram is a good back, not nearly as good as Ivory. Ivory has alot more heart and drive in him than Ingram, if Ingram ever fines some heart he could be really good. It took the Steelers RB. 3 years to develop they had basically given up on him and he realized he had to go out and play like he has nothing to lose, he started performing, Ingram is in the same boat as Mendinhall nothing to lose now is the time he digs down and sees who he is, the 1st round pick or someone that had a chance and blew it. I would like to see Ingram and Ivory lined up togather in the backfield the D would have to play tight and that leaves alot of 1 on 1 on the outside, the D would have to pick their poison leaving us to pick ours, overall I think ours would be so much better.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Yep, nothing like looking at stats to determine something once and for all.
How about considering...

He fumbled all thru training camp and continues to fumble during practice.

Ivory has not run behind this O-line yet.
Ivory is not good in pass protection.
Ivory is fragile.
Ivory has not run in a game coached by these guys yet.


Here's the stat that should tell you once and for all who the better running back is...

2012 carries...
Ingram - 37 carries
Ivory - ZERO

And I'm a huge Chris Ivory fan. I wouldn't mind playing Ivory just to shake things up a bit, but this article is poorly supported.

Honestly, because our OLine is so bad is exactly why we need ivory. Ivory can push the pile way better than Ingram.

We need them both. We always forget what happens to our RB corp every year in the playoffs. We are usually decimated. The more RB the better but I think ivory should be getting the start. Dude is way more explosive than Ingram.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

It's like hanging on to a "feel good" stock in the stock market, as it PLUNGES.

DUMP IT

Alaska

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

I personally believe the problem is not personnel, it's scheme. I don't really know if there is or should be a place for Ivory. I personally love the power run game, but the fact will remain we are a pass first offense. We need balance, but the strength of our offense is our pass attack.

The problem I see is running scheme. It doesn't help that our o-line has been inconsistent, but the issue is predictability in our rush attack. Whenever Ingram comes in we run the ball. Whenever Sproles comes in we pass the ball. We run Sproles and Thomas in predictable rush situations. We screen pass in predictable situations. One of the beauties of Sean Payton is that he ran any and every play out of multiple formations and multiple personnel packages. He didn't let the personnel or formation dictate the play call. And that messed with the minds of defenses. He'd throw the ball to any individual out of a constantly seen formation, and he'd rotate bodies in and keep doing the same thing. Defenses never knew who the primary target was and he never let the personnel or formation give away his intentions. He'd run out of pass looks and pass out of run looks, or he'd simply line up the same formation and just run a myriad of plays out of that same look over and over. We are missing that unpredictability factor and letting defenses in on our intentions. If I can guess what we are going to do just by seeing who's in the game and how we line up then the defense and coordinators much smarter than me sure can.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

I agree. I'd like to see them use Ivory for the power run game more but this article is pretty one sided.

Ingram 1 fumble in 159 carries
Ivory has a fumble for every 54 carries (4 fumbles, 216 carries)

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

I cringe everytime I see Ingram or Ivory get the Football.

More so with Ingram because I know damn well he wont go no where but into the backs of his lineman and fall down.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Im hopin once this coach is back to his o line duties Vitt will let Ivory get sum playing time.... Im tired of mark ingram.... give Ivory a shot !

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Mark ingram is just as fragile and I dont see him pass protect

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

I dont see Ingram doing much anything.

He dont block, he dont catch passes, he cant run worth a damn.

Ivory is nearly the same but can at least run between the tackles and not fall down after first contact.

Basically we get more out of undrafted FAs than a 1st round pick.

Ill be honest I think we better off sticking with PT most of the time anyway and start taking a long hard look at Cadet and Ivory and put to rest the Ingram experiment. Hell even let Sproles run it a couple times.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Longest thread title in the history of thread titles. LOL

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Daro did a piss-poor job of presenting this.

Comparing LAST YEARS Ivory to This years Ingram is apples to oranges.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Things will start to change with Ingram. We're starting to use him more on passing downs which will make defenses drop the safety back in coverage instead of 8 men in the box. Nobody can run effectively with 8 men in the box. And every report I hear this year coming out of practices is that Ivory is fumbling too much during practice, if he can't hold on to the ball in practice he damn sure can't be trusted during a game.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Well if that much emphasis is being put on practice... I have to ask...

Why cant that same defense cause that many fumbles in the game?

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Because it's only one person fumbling, Ivory.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Ivory's thing is that he runs like a Tasmanian Devil, which is awesome, but he fumbles the ball because he runs so crazy -- because he extends the ball out, he extends his arm when he's kind of swirling or thrashing around, and spinning like a wild man, plowing into people. Or sometimes he will make contact and lunge wildly for more yards, by thrashing around, kicking his legs, etc., and someone that he can't see, or doesn't know is there, strips it out from behind.

He also does that thing where as he's falling down, he holds out his arm -- he sometimes tries to shield his fall with the hand that has the ball in it, holding it out, so the ball pops out on the ground or comes loose as he's falling. Now of course that's human nature, instinct -- I sure as heck would do the same thing if I was falling forward with a football in my hand. But the point is, he is a running back, you don't let that happen.

He is also fumbling in part because he is being picked on, people know how to make him do it (ie when he does that thrashing around after contact thing), which is not endearing him to the coaches. WHEN he fumbles, it almost always the classic textbook, the first guy stands him up, the other guy strips the ball.

Every player fumbles. But there are certain types of fumbles where a coach is like, "okay, whatever, we'll get 'em next time." For example, Pierre Thomas fumbled near the goal line against the 49ers, but he was practically if not literally knocked out on the play. Pierre also fumbled against the Falcons in '10, and it was basically because THEY BROKE HIS ANKLE on the play. So there is a bit of a reason or explanation for "Pierre" types of fumbles.

Ivory's fumbles don't have that "explanation" or excuse to them, they just happen wildly and often at very bad parts of the game.

Go look at Ivory's "highlights" on Youtube, and notice how many times, at the end of the play, either the ground causes a fumble at the very end, or he is tackled and the ball comes sputtering out immediately as he hits the ground (not a fumble, but he lets go of it too soon). This is just bad ball handling and I'm serious, go look at his highlights -- even his good plays are often dangerously close to being bad plays.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

If you guys don't want Ivory, once again, send him to the Falcons.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Keep dreamin'

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

In a perfect world, the Saints would use 4 RBs on game day. Thomas is obviously entrenched as the starter, along with Sproles. Rotate Ingram with Thomas, and use Ivory on the short stuff, the roll Ingram is currently being used in. That to me makes sense, but until Ivory holds on to the ball that will probably not happen. I mean we all know Ivory can get those 3rd and 1 or 2 plays all day long, but factor in the probability of a fumble and it washes that out.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Well, I have eaten my fair share of crow de reaux.

I really think we need to offer Ingram up from trade. I know the front office wants him to work out, I still want him to work out, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards, folks.

Can someone pass me the the Slap ya Mama? This taste a little bland.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Do ya'll have any draft picks left after the Julio Jones trade?
I don't think we need any of your players......we got the only one we wanted. But, thanks for the offer.:cool:

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

PFF had this to say about him earlier in the year when reviewing all teams who see who needed more snaps.

Meanwhile, they have more or less hammered home that Ingram is disappointment embodied.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Don't forget Loomis has been out since the beginning of the season. These thoughts might be brewing with him right now.

My only defense for Ingram is that how is he supposed to do anything when he's only used in obvious run downs with everyone and their uncle stacked in the box? He's not better than Pierre that's for sure at making things happen and breaking tackles but I think if given some more consistent carries he'd get something going but it hard to sprint in from the sideline every 10th play and be effective.

When Ingram or Sproles comes in you know what play is going to be called before they break the huddle, draw up the middle or a screen (respectively). A little too easy for the MLB to key in on what's going on in those scenarios, and that's Carmichael's fault. He's just not as inventive a play caller as Payton is, plain and simple.

I'd like to see what Cadet could do in the return game and save Sproles some hits coming out of the endzone on kickoffs.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Didn't Deuce primarily play on run downs?
Don't most good backs find a way to get yards on "run downs"
What's being lost is we're still a good offense, Ingram just adds nothing to it.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

Nope Deuce played on all downs but he was bigger and stronger than Ingram so even when they knew he was running (Eagles playoff game) they couldn't stop him. In fact the knee injury that basically ended Deuce's career was a high screen pass from Drew against the Titans. He wasn't the same after that.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

neither

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

And when was the last time you heard of Ivory fumbling?

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

The last time Mike D spoke about him practicing, about 2 weeks ago.

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

And the Texans preseason game about a month before that...saw that one with my own two eyes

Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.
 

The thing is with Ivory running you always need to have a back up plan because not only because of the fumbling but the fact he is not durable....so getting rid of Ingram to keep Ivory wont work.