Defense....
 

I see a lot of people geeked about our defense. Yes we won...

I am not trying to be a spoil sport. I am just very curious about what is driving the thoughts that we have improved.

513 yards and 28 points.

Our defense made TB offense look as good as the Saints offense.

Saints: 31 points, total Net yards 458, 377 Passing, 81 rushing, time of possession 26:15
Bucs: 28 points, Total net yards 513, 418 passing, 98 rushing, Time of possession 33:45

418 yards passing allows is 100 more than we have allowed in any games this season.

Re: Defense....
 

From my vantage point, I think a lot of us are seeing where the defense are starting to make plays in clutch situations or at least making them a clutch play. I wholeheartedly agree that the defense is still giving up WAY too many yards and points. The difference in the last two games compared to the first four is that they are showing glimmers of making a big play when they absolutely need to make it. They weren't even doing that on the four-game losing streak. There is some improvement there, but they still have a long way to go.

Re: Defense....
 

.. Ok I understand and agree with that. When our d is backed into the red zone we do look good...

With 70 yards to go we get burnt like a red head at the beach.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UpvWpZM1NM...00/sunburn.jpg

Re: Defense....
 

I view it as I view Corey White and Patrick Robinson. Yeah, they aren't playing great but you can still see flashes that make you think they have what it takes to play well with some more consistency.

I see flashes with this defense that makes me think most of our deficiancies are correctable. We've all read that Spagnoulo's system is complex and takes time for players to finally get it. Michael Strahan said he didn't get it till week 10.

I'm frustrated that its taking so much longer than I thought it would, but I can see it... a little at least.

Re: Defense....
 

I'm not going to call you a spoil sport, you are right. In many areas this is the worst D fense in the league, but in the first four games. I don't even think we got teams offenses off the field. The clamp down is I think more what there talking about than actual statistical improvement.

Re: Defense....
 

So you're saying... in Strahan we trust?

Re: Defense....
 

I see a poll question in our future.

Re: Defense....
 

I'm sorry I just don't trust them yet. Way to many yards giving up. If they can stop people before we get in desperate situations then they can earn my trust. Josh Freeman looked like a all-pro this game.

Re: Defense....
 

If Josh Freeman can shred this defense then the Saints could be in for a very long night in Denver

Re: Defense....
 

They still want to revert to man coverage while playing zone. Old habits are hard to break but they really need to trust the system. Crossing patterns are the worst. The defender wants to follow the receiver instead of passing him off to the next defender. Happened to Casillas on the first TD.

Re: Defense....
 

I see a few positive things like:

1) giving up 28 points is better than giving up 40 in week 1, is it not?

2) okay, they did give up 28 points, fair enough -- but 1 of those TD's was from the 11 yard line (only so much you can expect them to do.) And then only 7 points given up in the second half... I know people don't want to see it this way because they are looking for a predetermined outcome that the defense is supposed to be BAD, but I'd say it's a fair debate whether that 2nd half Tampa Bay TD was actually borderline "garbage time" or not. Because the Saints were up by two scores, Drew had been scoring at will all day, until the Saints began shutting down the automatic scoring machine for the day, packing it up for next week, and switching to a conservative ball control offense.... and I feel like the Saints' defense were quite happy to just let time keep trickling off the clock while Tampa Bay moved the ball downfield in the 4th, letting 'em have it, like the Special Man. The same way that I argued that the Saints only made it "look closer than it was" to the Redskins during borderline "garbage time," I'd say the same thing about the Bucs offense yesterday.

3) I know people want to freak out, but you can't say that the 3rd quarter goal line stand was not at least kind of a little bit awesome, can you? That was one for the ages. You can build a season off of something like that. I felt the love.


Having said all that in their favor, I agree with GeauxForMore -- I absolutely don't TRUST them yet. I have zero confidence in predicting what will happen with them on any given play, which makes for an extremely nerve wracking game viewing experience. I have given up on waiting around for "Spags' system" to kick in, or for him to magically wave his wand and make them into the 2007 Giants. Not even thinking about stats or yards or rankings, I just want W's at this point. It's time to fly by the seat of our pants.

I'm just happy every time we get a god--mn stop or make them punt. Every single one of these games, if we had gotten as little as 1 or 2 more STOPS out of the defense during the game, then these games would have all been wins and many of the games would have been the familiar 31-17 type scores that we are used to seeing the Saints put up in the past 3-4 years. One or two more stops than what they're currently getting, that's all we need.

Re: Defense....
 

We won - IN SPITE OF THE DEFENSE.

This is an 8-8 proposition if we keep playing this way, and that is when you start 2-2, not 0-4.

Got to improve or we will not beat the Philadelphia, Denver, SF, NYG etc of the NFL...

Re: Defense....
 

I just can't comprehend why there are ALWAYS receivers WIDE open with no one within 10 yards of them??? Why is this happening every single game?

Re: Defense....
 

When you allow the opposition to move freely from goal line to goal line you better be able to stop them from scoring anything but a FG.

If we are going to give up 400 yards in a game but they are held to field goals.. I am fine with that. But when allow them free roam of the field and the red zone efficiency is 60% (to the bad) you cant expect to win. Key word being "expect"...

Re: Defense....
 

Apparently our "zone" is rather large... We need AWACS
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photo...-9999F-555.jpg

Re: Defense....
 

I guess so. It is also a VERY noticable difference when Galette and Hicks were in there. Why are these 2 not starting with Smellis and Smith in relief?
We just keep doing the same thing week in and week out with the same result.

As for the "goalline" stand..that was as much TB stupidness as our stopping the run. They ran the exact same play 3 times in a row.

I refuse to give Jenkins any love. 2 weeks in a row he has made a heads up play but the rest of his game is garbage. I am so sick of seeing him miss tackles. 1 good play a game doesn't make up for the rest of his abysmal play.

Re: Defense....
 

Goal Line stance = Stopped
Several 3 and outs by Tampa Bay

Defense done exactly what they needed to do was help the offense just enough to win. Yes it could of been worse but the defense gave us a fighting chance.
Weeks 1-3 it would have been different.

Re: Defense....
 

It seems like we are getting in the backfield more. I think the stats are misleading because we scored so fast at times. The goal line stand was something we haven't seen this year. I mean we will always give up alot of yards because we give the ball back so often. We scored pretty quick yesterday. It is alot of yards though.

Re: Defense....
 

Still, we have to score 4-5 TDs, get some calls, and make some critical plays. Little to no defensive consistency. The only consistency so far is that's what the Saints have to do to win games. Keep it close and hope things go your way.

Great goaline stance but look how it got to that point. It was because of a huge defensive breakdown. That designed college trickery by the Bucs was also was a monumental mistake on their coach. That's not going to happen often. What I did see yesterday though is a lot of heart and defenders getting their hands up and tipping balls at the line a few times. If we can't get good pressure a tip is just as effective. I hope to see more of that next week, batting down balls and effort.

Re: Defense....
 

Its Goal Line STAND, not stance.

Brought to you by our resident Grammar Nazis

http://badbreeders.net/wp-content/im...yaHozyayka.jpg

Re: Defense....
 

We are a bend don't break defense. I anticipate the middle giving up lots of yardage. We have now shown the ability to slow down the opposition closte to our goal line.
Really, that's what a lot of people on the board think is the recipe for winning with our high powered offense. I agree that this is ok for now, at least until Payton returns. We will have a full draft next year(I think) for Spags to get a few more critical parts.
It's definitely better than 0-4!

Re: Defense....
 

This is what continues to confuse me as well. And it's not even on blitzes. We rush three or four, yet there are guys that have no one within 15 yards of the receiver. That tells me there is still major confusion with the scheme. But then again, I don't know squat, it's just my best guess...

Re: Defense....
 

Ok the ugly question...


HOW in the HELL did Jenkins catch Jackson? From not only behind but at an angle. Who was SUPPOSED to be covering Jackson? Oh yea... Patrick and Harper all over that air.

Jackson 40 time 4.6s
Jenkins 40 time 4.55s

Jackson was tired from all the success he had against that Defense.

Kudos to Jenkins for not quitting like THE REST OF THE DEFENSE DID. But being the only person to not quit isn't as much of a testament to Jenkins as it is to the other 10 on the field.

http://nfl.cpl.delvenetworks.com/pla...ac7df2d653e442

Re: Defense....
 

Well one its a division game our games always go down to the final play. Two both teams are in a must win situation. So they will play harder. And I think every team is playing us extra "hard" "motivated" whatever because they are trying to keep us outta the playoffs. Since the superbowls in our house this season.

Re: Defense....
 

corey white is trash... almost as bad as shanle. I wont write him off yet because he is a rook but in every game he gets burnt at lease 2 or 3 times.

Re: Defense....
 

A 5th round rookie at that! He was never supposed to see this much playing time his rookie year...

Sorry brother. It isn't how we'll they play.... It's how badly we play.

Re: Defense....
 

It has become painfully obvious what our defense is going to be this year. Give up all the yards on first and second down and stop them on third down when they get to the red zone. We actually held TB to 4 of 12 on 3rd down. Sprinkle in some "hope we stop them and make a play". Thats our defense this year.

Re: Defense....
 

Defense is still not good and it scares me when they are on the field trying to protect a lead. They just can't seem to stop the big plays. At least our offense has been playing good.

Re: Defense....
 

Jackson is probably still suffering from that injury... knee I think. And he has never been a "burner," but more a Colston type receiver. Also, Jenkins was running toward him, even though from an angle like you said, and Jackson bobbled the pass a little which probably affected his acceleration after the catch.

Nevertheless, it was a good effort from Jenkins, but it certainly doesn't erase the fact that he has been mostly garbage this whole season.

Re: Defense....
 

Saints need to start running the ball And run it well, defense wouldnt be giving up so many yards. you can see the potential in this D, the defense isnt good And they have a lot of work to do to get there, but from week one to week seven you can see improvement.

Re: Defense....
 

Wrong.

Re: Defense....
 

We have 20 guys on our defense not suited to play Spags scheme. It's gonna be 2 years before we see significant progress and it will take much turnover in personnel. We do have some keepers and some young guys who will grow into it. For now we will have to suffer through many games of mind numbing terrible defensive plays and a handful of brilliant downs.

Re: Defense....
 

Here is something to digest.

Sooner or later you 'may' come to the conclusion that the 1st round draft picks we have are true first round draft pics but they are not being COACHED.

College atheletes need to be COACHED and developed to reach their potential in the NFL. If we had veterans that were preforming then I would tend to think it were bad draft picks... Our entire defensive back field is preforming questionably...

All signs show that this is a coaching issue.

Re: Defense....
 

Plus the fact that we have ALL seen almost all of these guys make big plays in the past -- Jenkins being the perfect example with that strip in the Cowboys' game or the famous open field tackle he made against Chris Johnson that saved the day in a Titans game. So I look at stuff like that and I know the talent or skill or ability is THERE, potential playmakers do exist in this locker room, it's just not happening often enough on the D. Which is coaching, not a this-guy-is-a-bum or that-guy-is-a-bum type of issue.

Re: Defense....
 

As far as the secondary goes, they've had several coaches during the past couple of years - Allen, Oden, Flajole - so there's always that.

Since Flajole and Curtis were able to get some great performances out of the decimated secondary of the Rams last season, I find it hard to place a lot of the blame on their shoulders.

It's probably more of a combination of both having to adapt to various secondary schemes, having to adapt to new roles (i.e. Jenkins), and then having to unlearn some of the things you've been coached previously in order to learn the new way of doing things... and some of the guys may just be less talented than we would all like to think they are.

Re: Defense....
 

i have 0 negatives this week on jenkins. when u do the joe- hustle play and save the day which is very likely he did. he has a pass this week from me. with all the bad angles hes taken in the pass, hes got that one right.

Re: Defense....
 

Still, there were some glaring missed tackles again by him in the game, so while he made a great play on that Jackson catch - it just doesn't negate the fact that he has been seriously under-performing.