Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

I am seeing the same flashes of brilliance that many of us are seeing with our defense, but I have to wonder...

Is it: A or B?


Can we actually pull this off with what we have presently?

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Maybe...just maybe

Vilma almost got a pick, and Roman Harper got ROBBED; we get a couple of those tipped balls/missed calls and maybe that game yesterday isn't as close

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

But isn't the key to Spags D pressure on the QB? We are at the bottom 1/3 of the league with QB hits and sacks.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Freeman still threw for 400+ yds. He's not a top tier QB. I see flashes of individual brilliance, still not their yet as a team. I think it's both actually. Spag's isn't done shopping yet, and the D is a work in progress, he'll get everyone on board, whether with the current pieces or w/ new ones. I just hope Manning takes a wrong turn to the stadium, otherwise he throw for a bajillion yards.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

I suppose the better question is... Not why we are having flashes of light, but rather...

Are we still giving up epic yardage because we are out of position, mismatched, just not good enough at key positions?

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

i just don't think we are good enough in key positions, after 6 games the fellas should know their responsibilities by now. Never really thought about it till now, but at one time we made better half time adjustments both on Offense and Defense, not sure that's the case now.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Too many WR's are just WIDE open. No DB even in the frame when the catch is made. I don't know. Is it scheme? Is it players?

Whatever it is it isn't good, and just as I said after game 1, we're going to have to score 30+ a game. The good news is we can. The bad news is we have to.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

If I voted, I'd have to say somewhere in the middle. I think the players are catching on and we can still win. With the players we have I think we can finish with this defense resembling a middle of the pack unit.

But we also lack a few ingredients to be top 10. Another year of development of Hicks, Jordan, Galette, Wilson, White, Patrick and Robinson combined with a couple more key additions at D-line and LB and a top 10 defense is within our grasp.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

We still haven't fully grasped the zone d yet. Sometimes we play it well and other times we revert to man coverage. I posted this on another thread but what's really confusing the d is crossing routes. Everytime a receiver cuts across a defender he immediately vacates his zone and trails the receiver instead of passing him off like he should and the trailing receiver is then wide open from the vacated zone. We need to trust the scheme more. Also that 95 yard play with VJ was total luck, we had position and tipped the ball, it just fell perfectly in his hands but it didn't cost us anything thanks to Jenkins.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Turn the coin over; not a lot of teams can score 30+ points as easily as the Saints.

I am not saying that our defense isn't in need of a major overhaul. If the Saints offense has an off-day, or have to play in an inclement weather, and our so-called defense can't stop anyone from scoring 21-24 points, we will be in major trouble.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

pre 2012 I agree... In 2012 we are missing the "play caller"... That's a big issue, we have seen it in the first 6 games. If Vitt doesn't do much of a better job the big plays will be our demise.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Im still wondering if this is the worst defense i have ever seen at New Orleans and ive been a fan since the early nineties.Its hard to watch

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Voted A.
The defense in week 1-4 looked lost. Not sure and haven't bought into the new defense idea because blizting is easier and you don't have to be very smart.

They're moving faster and making plays, making stops, batting down balls and getting sacks. Even thoughts its a small amount.
The defense that played yesterday gave the offense a chance and vise versa.

Getting better each week.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

I voted B. We have to have players that don't just flash brilliance(Jenkins) we need game changers game in and game out . Right now we don't have enough of those.........1st rounders not living up to expectation.jmho

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

I voted luck.... In some rare instances Ill take lucky over good.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Im not worried about the SAINTS putting 30 on the board.... my concern is keeping the opponent from slamming 40... good news is we're back in the thick of things at 2-4. Lets keep doing what we can control and check back in 4 weeks... WHO DATT!!!!

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Last night I get saying why didn't we keep some money back to strengthen our defense with one (more) quality player. It needs it.

Two more is closer to requirements.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

After we went down 21-7 by the beginning of the 2nd quarter, it was pretty clear that defense was some unknown abstract concept one learns in grad philosophy. Delude yourselves at your own risk.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Flashes of brilliance, yeah, but I"m seeing more flashes everyweek. We didn't sack Freeman, but we got pressure on him and made him run around a lot. Now if we can somehow make life hard for Ol' PM out there in Denver, we'll get one game closer to .500. Heres hoping the Broncos play like crap the entire game instead of just the first half.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

At least Manning isn't the runner that Freeman is... Looked what happened to Rivers when we got the same amount of pressure... :bng:

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Our defense is atrocious for 58 minutes of these last few games. The decent 2 minutes save our lives and allow our offense to win it for us. It's painful to watch.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

One comment I heard was that players described Williams' system as "black and white" and Spag's as 'lots of grey area".

To me that means thought, not instinct is required more than before. Therefore, some players are struggling to make the right decisions, taking longer or just not making the right choice and being out of position.

Spags has drafted exactly two of our defensive players, helped sign one and brought over two as well.

My point is that this defense may take longer to develop than we thought.

Rivers and Freeman are not the cerebral QB that Manning is. If our D is 1/2 inch out of position he will exploit it.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Peyton's WRs being 2inches taller than our DBs is enough to give us fits.

We will have to play ball control like never before.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

The first half ended in a sack and the 4th and goal play where Jordan chased down Freeman should've gone down as a sack/fumble, like Spags said in the presser.


Personally, I can't choose either of the choices given, because I think it's a little bit of both. The defensive play may be improving, even though we need to see more games before coming to that conclusion, but I'm finding it very hard to believe that this years' defensive personnel as an unit can become a top tier defense. They need to make some key additions and key subtractions within the defensive personnel during the offseason, and then just maybe next year the defense will be much improved from the get go.

The good thing is that if the Saints' offense is clicking, they don't need a top tier defense to compliment them in order to win games - they just need the defense to make one more big play then the opposition's defense.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Our D getting to 1/2 inch out is an improvement of some 2 + yards.
zone defense, let's call it the Shellshock 6 ©, which somehow provides a mismatch AGAINST the Saints - be it a passing play or a rushing play. :confused:

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Improved doesn't not = Good Enough LOL

I like the shellshock

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

It's like I said before the season started. This team was built to be a blitzing, man to man cover team. Those are the kinds of players we have. I said before the season that I didn't see how all of a sudden we were going to take man to man corners, blitzing safties and linebackers and make them into a zone coverage, four down lineman rush team when they have shown over 6 years that they are not capable of playing zone on the back end and not capable of producing a pass rush from the front 4 without blitzing a safety or linebacker, and here we are. We're making a play here and there over the last 3 weeks but I'm afraid that's not gonna be enough against Manning. I think we need to prepare to be shredded.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

We just don't have it up front. Thats the bottom line I say it's "B"

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

Historically bad, legendary, all-time, "worst ever" bad defenses of all time, don't make 4 play goal line stands that turn the ball over on downs after miraculous tackles on the 1 yard line. They certainly don't hold teams to 7 points in the second half, three games in a row. In the second half, the Buccaneers snapped the ball inside the Saints’ 30 yard line 31 times. 31! And amassed a whopping 7 points from all that time mucking around in our half of the field. 8 plays inside the Saints’ ten gained zero points. On the final drive alone, Tampa had six shots inside the thirty in the last minute to play. Nada. One of Tampa's scores earlier in the game, they got the ball gift-wrapped for them on the Saints' 11 with a bow around it. What, as a defense, are you supposed to do with that?

If this defense was really THAT bad, if it were really truly that turrible, we would have lost this game by 14 at the least. They also would have been MUCH WORSE last year, since it was mostly the same people.

Give them credit for the play, or don't - but in the Packers game, somebody on that defense got in there and poked Rodgers in the eye -- the backup QB for Green Bay comes in, and next thing you know, #9 is putting on his helmet and we are back in business again. Stuff like that. Is it a dominating, crushing, commanding performance? Hell no. It is enough, or close to enough? Not really, but it's getting there.

If if it was ALL sheer dumb luck, then it would be a lot worse, noticeably worse -- every quarter would be like the first quarter yesterday, that's all I'm saying. Not claiming that it's brilliant either. Long way from that.

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

The players that played under Spags when he came to the NY Giants as Def Coordinator say that there was a similar learning curve to his system there where they were absolutely horrendous. Then something clicked and they turned into the most formidable D in the NFC East for years after.

God, I'd love to see another Dome Patrol Defense!

Re: Defensive brilliance or luck?
 

ur right on sf. and our guys pointing here and there after the play. they still have a ways to go / learn the spags d