Contender or Pretender?

CheramieIII · 08-16-2004, 10:55 PM

Sean Salisbury of ESPN tonight said the following:

NFC
Seahawks - contender and will give the Eagles all they can handle.
Lions - pretender, still another year away.

AFC
Texans - contender.
Jaguars - pretender.

He also said that the Broncos are going to drop off this year and that the Chiefs will win their division by at least 4 games.

Who's your contender or pretender:

Mine
NFC
Saint's - contender of course. D will do fine.
Eagles - I think their D is going to be worse than we expect our's to be.

AFC
Colt's - contender. All comes together for Manning this year.
Patriot's - pretender. Drop off after Superbowl, no reason just a hunch.

GumboBC · 08-16-2004, 11:54 PM

Hey, Gator...

The Pats didn\'t lose anyone really.

Who did the Bucs lose last year after winning the Super Bowl?

Didn\'t I tell you and WhoDat at the beginning of last season that the Bucs were not the team to beat. Didn\'t the Bucs finish 7-9 last year??

You and WhoDat tried to get me to buy into the Bucs last year. I remember it well.

One day you\'re going to listen to me.

But just in case ya don\'t.

Look at my gold watch. You\'re eyes are getting heavy. You are getting very sleepy..

Now that you\'re under my spell... Repeat after me: Aaron Brooks is a top 3 QB. Aaron Brooks is a top 3 QB.

When I snap my fingers you will not remember this converstation.

SNAP

Crackle

POP!!

CheramieIII · 08-17-2004, 12:36 AM

Hey Gator, no offense taken, yes I\'m a regular now and plan on staying for a long time or until my wife tells me I can\'t anymore and then I would leave her so I could stay. I said the D will be fine, not that there fine, yet. As far as the Eagles, I think Kearse will get hurt soon and often and that Owens will be blanketed all season long and with no top flight rusher and no solid 2nd receiver, they will not be everything that everyone says they will be. As for the Patriot\'s, just a hunch and only a hunch.

GumboBC · 08-19-2004, 04:07 PM

I just read where someone said we didn\'t need new \"turf\" in the dome. We needed to put down some \"paper\" on the dome floor !! :P

Why put \"paper\" down on the dome floor?

\'cause we are the best team in the NFL on \"paper.\" :P LMAO!!!

Puddinhead · 08-19-2004, 08:26 AM

Yeah, the Pats off-year was a paltry 9-7. You\'re right, they\'re ready to fall. They\'ve been 11-5 and won a Super Bowl, 9-7, and 14-2 and won a Super Bowl. Yeah, that\'s a team ready to collapse if I\'ve ever seen one. They bolstered their running game and league best D this year too if memory serves. Yeah, they\'re a 6-10 team.

I\'m not going to try to say that I think the Patriots will slump all the way to 6-10...but by the same token, how can you flatly state that there\'s no way they could possibly go from a Super Bowl championship to a near- or at-.500 record, when they had just done that the year before? Won the Super Bowl, then struggled to win the final game of the following season to keep from finishing at .500? And as for bolstering their running game...I\'m not all that sure they\'ve done that in adding Corey Dillon. You\'ll find no bigger malcontent and front-runner in the league than Dillon. Win a few games in a row, and he\'s fine--unless the team won without giving him the ball 25-30 times a game. Then he\'s going to pout and either give no effort in the next game or develop a mysterious \"strain\" that sidelines him for a game or two. Lose a game or two (which was more often the case with the Bengals), and he goes into an even deeper funk and starts to ***** and moan to the press about having to play with teammates who aren\'t as good as he is. He ended his stay in Cincinnati as essentially the backup running back after Marvin Lewis got tired of his act and found out he could get just as much (and much more dependable) production out of Rudi Johnson. As any fantasy player can tell you, Dillon\'s the master of the 175 yard rushing effort one week, followed by two weeks of 25 carrys, 35 yard games.

Again...I\'m not saying the Patriots shouldn\'t be the favorites in their division or that I think they\'ll have a poor season. Just that it shouldn\'t be considered beyond the realm of possibility.

GumboBC · 08-19-2004, 06:36 AM

WhoDat -- I didn\'t say the Pats would finish with a losing record. I don\'t think they will. But, it wouldn\'t surprise me either!!

As far as whether the Saints are \"contenders\" or \"pretenders.\"

You want my 100% honest opinion? With no bias? Here it is:

I\'m not buying into ANY of the \"hype\" this year. And I\'m being perfectly honest about that.

There was a reason this team finished 8-8 last year. In my mind, the factors that MOST contributed to that 8-8 record were:

- Lack of talent at LB.
- Coaching. I\'m talking about Venturi and Haslett.
- Lack of talent at CB.
- AB fumbling the ball.
- Inconsistency on the offense.
- Injuries

Those are listed in no particular order, but that\'s what I conrtibute to last year\'s 8-8 record.

The question is, what was done to address those problems in the off-season?

- Lack of talent at LB. --- Drafted Courtney Watson. I don\'t think he\'s the answer. I could be wrong about that. But, Haslett is pinning a lot of responsibility on a rookie. I look for this to be a problem area. We\'ll see..... Grade - D

- Coaching. I\'m talking about Venturi and Haslett. --- I\'m most concerned with Venturi. At least John Pease was brought in. I do think Pease will help this defense out greatly. And he\'s got a lot of talent to work with. Grade - C

- Lack of talent at CB. --- I don\'t think you need shut-down CB\'s to have a good defense. I DO think you need solid guys back there and a good pass rush. Ambrose scares the hell out of me. Craft was brought in, but he\'s an unknown. Fakir hasn\'t proven anything. Grade - C

- AB fumbling the ball. --- I just simply do NOT look for this to be a problem this year. Grade - B

- Inconsistency on the offense. --- It was an off year for our receivers. They dropped a lot of passes. McCarthy called inconsistent plays. Brooks played inconsistent. Have those problems been corrected? I don\'t know !! Gut feeling is they WILL play better this year. Grade - B

Injuries --- We had MANY injuries on defense. Injuries on offense. And Michael Lewis was injuried which hurt our return game. Impossible to know if the injury bug will bite us again this year. I\'ll give the benefit of the doubt -- Grade - B

Defensive Tackles --- Sullivan was a rookie and played like one. Grady let us down and was shipped out. This year Sully SHOULD be much improved. That\'s usually the trend for DT\'s. Brian Young was brought in as a free-agent. Grade -- C

Note: I gave grades based on how I feel the problem areas were addressed and how I feel they will carry over into this year. And overall talent at those spots.

That\'s a lot of \"fixing\" to do. Not impossible. But there\'s a lot that has to take place for this to be a successful season.

A lot of the problems are easily correctable. Like AB fumbling the ball, injuries (more luck invovled than anything), dropped passes, and calling better plays.

But there is a GLARING weakness on this team, IMO. And that\'s at ALL the linebacker spots. This could be the down-fall of our defense. The only good news is at least we have some athletic guys with some possible upside as opposed to having some aging veterans with nothing but downside.

The question was: Contender or Pretender?

Optimistic Outlook:
Of course we\'re contenders. We have more than enough to get us to the playoffs. Hell, we barely missed the playoff last year and I THINK we played the worst football that\'s possible out of this team. -- Record: 11-5

Pessimistic Outlook:
Linebackers are still a very weak area. The secondary could very well be a weak area. And the coaching is a weak area until proven otherwise. -- Record 8-8

We\'ll see !!!!!

[Edited on 19/8/2004 by GumboBC]

WhoDat · 08-17-2004, 03:07 PM

Right - let\'s compare the Bucs to the Pats - who wants to play that game?

Gimme a break. Yeah, I see a 7-9 year in the Pats future. The Saints will be 12-4 though. Hang on... gotta go guys, I\'ve got a phone call. It\'s the earth.

GumboBC · 08-17-2004, 04:41 PM

Right - let\'s compare the Bucs to the Pats - who wants to play that game?

Gimme a break. Yeah, I see a 7-9 year in the Pats future. The Saints will be 12-4 though. Hang on... gotta go guys, I\'ve got a phone call. It\'s the earth.

Hello, WhoDat, this is Earth. What was the Pats record the year following their 1st Super Bowl win?

Head just not in it today, or what? You usually put up better logic :exclam:

Danno · 08-17-2004, 04:57 PM

Hello, WhoDat, this is Earth. What was the Pats record the year following their 1st Super Bowl win?

FYI it was 9-7, and they had to win the last game in OT over Miami to avoid going 8-8, and had losses to the the lowly Jets and Chargers.

They are a Tom Brady injury from 8-8 or 7-9.

CheramieIII · 08-18-2004, 10:34 PM

I went to rehab to take care of that problem and the Pat\'s will not repeat this year and I think at best they will be 10-6.

Hey Saintsin04 are you trying to put that reverse curse on the Saint\'s. Predict they will be a pretender and they turn into a contender. That\'s usually the way it is, when everyone says we will do good we lose and vice versa.

So, with all the doubters this year, except for a few of us on the board, I would have to say we are going to win the Superbowl this year for sure.

08-16-2004, 10:55 PM	#1
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,489 Blog Entries: 3	Contender or Pretender? Sean Salisbury of ESPN tonight said the following: NFC Seahawks - contender and will give the Eagles all they can handle. Lions - pretender, still another year away. AFC Texans - contender. Jaguars - pretender. He also said that the Broncos are going to drop off this year and that the Chiefs will win their division by at least 4 games. Who's your contender or pretender: Mine NFC Saint's - contender of course. D will do fine. Eagles - I think their D is going to be worse than we expect our's to be. AFC Colt's - contender. All comes together for Manning this year. Patriot's - pretender. Drop off after Superbowl, no reason just a hunch.

08-16-2004, 11:54 PM	#2
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Contender or Pretender? Hey, Gator... The Pats didn\'t lose anyone really. Who did the Bucs lose last year after winning the Super Bowl? Didn\'t I tell you and WhoDat at the beginning of last season that the Bucs were not the team to beat. Didn\'t the Bucs finish 7-9 last year?? You and WhoDat tried to get me to buy into the Bucs last year. I remember it well. One day you\'re going to listen to me. But just in case ya don\'t. Look at my gold watch. You\'re eyes are getting heavy. You are getting very sleepy.. Now that you\'re under my spell... Repeat after me: Aaron Brooks is a top 3 QB. Aaron Brooks is a top 3 QB. When I snap my fingers you will not remember this converstation. SNAP Crackle POP!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

08-17-2004, 12:36 AM	#3
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,489 Blog Entries: 3	Contender or Pretender? Hey Gator, no offense taken, yes I\'m a regular now and plan on staying for a long time or until my wife tells me I can\'t anymore and then I would leave her so I could stay. I said the D will be fine, not that there fine, yet. As far as the Eagles, I think Kearse will get hurt soon and often and that Owens will be blanketed all season long and with no top flight rusher and no solid 2nd receiver, they will not be everything that everyone says they will be. As for the Patriot\'s, just a hunch and only a hunch.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret

08-19-2004, 04:07 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Contender or Pretender? I just read where someone said we didn\'t need new \"turf\" in the dome. We needed to put down some \"paper\" on the dome floor !! :P Why put \"paper\" down on the dome floor? \'cause we are the best team in the NFL on \"paper.\" :P LMAO!!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

08-19-2004, 08:26 AM	#5
Puddinhead 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 102	Contender or Pretender? Yeah, the Pats off-year was a paltry 9-7. You\'re right, they\'re ready to fall. They\'ve been 11-5 and won a Super Bowl, 9-7, and 14-2 and won a Super Bowl. Yeah, that\'s a team ready to collapse if I\'ve ever seen one. They bolstered their running game and league best D this year too if memory serves. Yeah, they\'re a 6-10 team. I\'m not going to try to say that I think the Patriots will slump all the way to 6-10...but by the same token, how can you flatly state that there\'s no way they could possibly go from a Super Bowl championship to a near- or at-.500 record, when they had just done that the year before? Won the Super Bowl, then struggled to win the final game of the following season to keep from finishing at .500? And as for bolstering their running game...I\'m not all that sure they\'ve done that in adding Corey Dillon. You\'ll find no bigger malcontent and front-runner in the league than Dillon. Win a few games in a row, and he\'s fine--unless the team won without giving him the ball 25-30 times a game. Then he\'s going to pout and either give no effort in the next game or develop a mysterious \"strain\" that sidelines him for a game or two. Lose a game or two (which was more often the case with the Bengals), and he goes into an even deeper funk and starts to ***** and moan to the press about having to play with teammates who aren\'t as good as he is. He ended his stay in Cincinnati as essentially the backup running back after Marvin Lewis got tired of his act and found out he could get just as much (and much more dependable) production out of Rudi Johnson. As any fantasy player can tell you, Dillon\'s the master of the 175 yard rushing effort one week, followed by two weeks of 25 carrys, 35 yard games. Again...I\'m not saying the Patriots shouldn\'t be the favorites in their division or that I think they\'ll have a poor season. Just that it shouldn\'t be considered beyond the realm of possibility.
Puddinhead 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 102

08-19-2004, 06:36 AM	#6
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Contender or Pretender? WhoDat -- I didn\'t say the Pats would finish with a losing record. I don\'t think they will. But, it wouldn\'t surprise me either!! As far as whether the Saints are \"contenders\" or \"pretenders.\" You want my 100% honest opinion? With no bias? Here it is: I\'m not buying into ANY of the \"hype\" this year. And I\'m being perfectly honest about that. There was a reason this team finished 8-8 last year. In my mind, the factors that MOST contributed to that 8-8 record were: - Lack of talent at LB. - Coaching. I\'m talking about Venturi and Haslett. - Lack of talent at CB. - AB fumbling the ball. - Inconsistency on the offense. - Injuries Those are listed in no particular order, but that\'s what I conrtibute to last year\'s 8-8 record. The question is, what was done to address those problems in the off-season? - Lack of talent at LB. --- Drafted Courtney Watson. I don\'t think he\'s the answer. I could be wrong about that. But, Haslett is pinning a lot of responsibility on a rookie. I look for this to be a problem area. We\'ll see..... Grade - D - Coaching. I\'m talking about Venturi and Haslett. --- I\'m most concerned with Venturi. At least John Pease was brought in. I do think Pease will help this defense out greatly. And he\'s got a lot of talent to work with. Grade - C - Lack of talent at CB. --- I don\'t think you need shut-down CB\'s to have a good defense. I DO think you need solid guys back there and a good pass rush. Ambrose scares the hell out of me. Craft was brought in, but he\'s an unknown. Fakir hasn\'t proven anything. Grade - C - AB fumbling the ball. --- I just simply do NOT look for this to be a problem this year. Grade - B - Inconsistency on the offense. --- It was an off year for our receivers. They dropped a lot of passes. McCarthy called inconsistent plays. Brooks played inconsistent. Have those problems been corrected? I don\'t know !! Gut feeling is they WILL play better this year. Grade - B Injuries --- We had MANY injuries on defense. Injuries on offense. And Michael Lewis was injuried which hurt our return game. Impossible to know if the injury bug will bite us again this year. I\'ll give the benefit of the doubt -- Grade - B Defensive Tackles --- Sullivan was a rookie and played like one. Grady let us down and was shipped out. This year Sully SHOULD be much improved. That\'s usually the trend for DT\'s. Brian Young was brought in as a free-agent. Grade -- C Note: I gave grades based on how I feel the problem areas were addressed and how I feel they will carry over into this year. And overall talent at those spots. That\'s a lot of \"fixing\" to do. Not impossible. But there\'s a lot that has to take place for this to be a successful season. A lot of the problems are easily correctable. Like AB fumbling the ball, injuries (more luck invovled than anything), dropped passes, and calling better plays. But there is a GLARING weakness on this team, IMO. And that\'s at ALL the linebacker spots. This could be the down-fall of our defense. The only good news is at least we have some athletic guys with some possible upside as opposed to having some aging veterans with nothing but downside. The question was: Contender or Pretender? Optimistic Outlook: Of course we\'re contenders. We have more than enough to get us to the playoffs. Hell, we barely missed the playoff last year and I THINK we played the worst football that\'s possible out of this team. -- Record: 11-5 Pessimistic Outlook: Linebackers are still a very weak area. The secondary could very well be a weak area. And the coaching is a weak area until proven otherwise. -- Record 8-8 We\'ll see !!!!! [Edited on 19/8/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

08-17-2004, 03:07 PM	#7
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Contender or Pretender? Right - let\'s compare the Bucs to the Pats - who wants to play that game? Gimme a break. Yeah, I see a 7-9 year in the Pats future. The Saints will be 12-4 though. Hang on... gotta go guys, I\'ve got a phone call. It\'s the earth.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

08-17-2004, 04:41 PM	#8
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Contender or Pretender? Right - let\'s compare the Bucs to the Pats - who wants to play that game? Gimme a break. Yeah, I see a 7-9 year in the Pats future. The Saints will be 12-4 though. Hang on... gotta go guys, I\'ve got a phone call. It\'s the earth. Hello, WhoDat, this is Earth. What was the Pats record the year following their 1st Super Bowl win? Head just not in it today, or what? You usually put up better logic :exclam:
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

08-17-2004, 04:57 PM	#9
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Contender or Pretender? Hello, WhoDat, this is Earth. What was the Pats record the year following their 1st Super Bowl win? FYI it was 9-7, and they had to win the last game in OT over Miami to avoid going 8-8, and had losses to the the lowly Jets and Chargers. They are a Tom Brady injury from 8-8 or 7-9.

08-18-2004, 10:34 PM	#10
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,489 Blog Entries: 3	Contender or Pretender? I went to rehab to take care of that problem and the Pat\'s will not repeat this year and I think at best they will be 10-6. Hey Saintsin04 are you trying to put that reverse curse on the Saint\'s. Predict they will be a pretender and they turn into a contender. That\'s usually the way it is, when everyone says we will do good we lose and vice versa. So, with all the doubters this year, except for a few of us on the board, I would have to say we are going to win the Superbowl this year for sure.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret