New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

papz · 02-02-2013, 08:11 AM

He does fit in a 3-4 and pretty well imo. But with the type of money he's making, it's just not a logical fit. His presence on the team also impedes Hicks' development process. If he's willing to be one of the guys, instead the guy, and at a very reduced rate, I honestly wouldn't mind having him back.

FinSaint · 02-02-2013, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by papz

He does fit in a 3-4 and pretty well imo. But with the type of money he's making, it's just not a logical fit. His presence on the team also impedes Hicks' development process. If he's willing to be one of the guys, instead the guy, and at a very reduced rate, I honestly wouldn't mind having him back.

Originally Posted by xan

I see him on the 2013 3-4 scheme, too. $2.5 mil plus 500 in incentives in a two year deal. Otherwise,

Ba
Bye.

I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too slow to set the edge and doesn't have the coverage skills to be an OLB. And he's definitely not a match at NT, so I really don't know how he could fit in the 3-4 scheme.

Of course they can make him fit, but isn't that just the kind of thing that we as fans have been frustrated with in the past (and present) - the whole "square peg into a round hole" thing?! I'd rather they got rid of the players that don't suit the future scheme and replace them with players who do. This is nothing against Smith, but I think that he might have better opportunities to be a more effective player with some other team and scheme.

papz · 02-04-2013, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too slow to set the edge and doesn't have the coverage skills to be an OLB. And he's definitely not a match at NT, so I really don't know how he could fit in the 3-4 scheme.

Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback.

Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc.

Of course they can make him fit, but isn't that just the kind of thing that we as fans have been frustrated with in the past (and present) - the whole "square peg into a round hole" thing?! I'd rather they got rid of the players that don't suit the future scheme and replace them with players who do. This is nothing against Smith, but I think that he might have better opportunities to be a more effective player with some other team and scheme.

We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise.

FinSaint · 02-04-2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback.

Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc.

We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise.

If we were talking about the 23 year old Smith as opposed to the 31 year old version - I would agree with you on the comparison to Jordan, although Smith is 6026 while Jordan is 6041, so while Cam is 6-4 Smith is barely 6-3.

It's naturally about more than just inches when I was talking about the size, but a key ingredient for a typically effective 3-4 DE is having long arms, which Smith doesn't really have. Also, IMO, Smith has lost a step or two during the past couple of years and he hasn't been able to fight off the tackles with the same rate of success he did in the past (based on just eye-balling his play), and he hasn't been forced to face too many double teams because of that diminished pass rushing ability. Therefore, the size comes into play more than it would if he was otherwise in the same physical condition he was back when he came into the league. If he had more size, he could play the 3-4 DE position with more effect, since he could use that size to take on double teams - which is what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do along with providing interior pressure - but I just can't see him being able to do that with much success at this point in his career and with the current skill-level he has. Explosiveness doesn't really have that much to do with what an ideal 3-4 DE is about, but I only listed that as something that could potentially allow Smith to compensate for his lack of size, but again he doesn't have that explosiveness off the LOS.

Smith has the ideal size for a 4-3 DE, but 3-4 DEs are ideally bigger than their 4-3 counterparts - not that his size alone makes him a bad fit, but it's definitely part of the issue.

02-02-2013, 08:11 AM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,768	Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix He does fit in a 3-4 and pretty well imo. But with the type of money he's making, it's just not a logical fit. His presence on the team also impedes Hicks' development process. If he's willing to be one of the guys, instead the guy, and at a very reduced rate, I honestly wouldn't mind having him back.

02-02-2013, 02:33 PM	#2
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix Originally Posted by papz He does fit in a 3-4 and pretty well imo. But with the type of money he's making, it's just not a logical fit. His presence on the team also impedes Hicks' development process. If he's willing to be one of the guys, instead the guy, and at a very reduced rate, I honestly wouldn't mind having him back. Originally Posted by xan I see him on the 2013 3-4 scheme, too. $2.5 mil plus 500 in incentives in a two year deal. Otherwise, Ba Bye. I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too slow to set the edge and doesn't have the coverage skills to be an OLB. And he's definitely not a match at NT, so I really don't know how he could fit in the 3-4 scheme. Of course they can make him fit, but isn't that just the kind of thing that we as fans have been frustrated with in the past (and present) - the whole "square peg into a round hole" thing?! I'd rather they got rid of the players that don't suit the future scheme and replace them with players who do. This is nothing against Smith, but I think that he might have better opportunities to be a more effective player with some other team and scheme. Danno likes this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-04-2013, 12:47 PM	#3
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,768	Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix Originally Posted by FinSaint I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too slow to set the edge and doesn't have the coverage skills to be an OLB. And he's definitely not a match at NT, so I really don't know how he could fit in the 3-4 scheme. Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback. Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc. Of course they can make him fit, but isn't that just the kind of thing that we as fans have been frustrated with in the past (and present) - the whole "square peg into a round hole" thing?! I'd rather they got rid of the players that don't suit the future scheme and replace them with players who do. This is nothing against Smith, but I think that he might have better opportunities to be a more effective player with some other team and scheme. We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 02-04-2013 at 01:50 PM..

02-04-2013, 03:34 PM	#4
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix Originally Posted by papz Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback. Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc. We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise. If we were talking about the 23 year old Smith as opposed to the 31 year old version - I would agree with you on the comparison to Jordan, although Smith is 6026 while Jordan is 6041, so while Cam is 6-4 Smith is barely 6-3. It's naturally about more than just inches when I was talking about the size, but a key ingredient for a typically effective 3-4 DE is having long arms, which Smith doesn't really have. Also, IMO, Smith has lost a step or two during the past couple of years and he hasn't been able to fight off the tackles with the same rate of success he did in the past (based on just eye-balling his play), and he hasn't been forced to face too many double teams because of that diminished pass rushing ability. Therefore, the size comes into play more than it would if he was otherwise in the same physical condition he was back when he came into the league. If he had more size, he could play the 3-4 DE position with more effect, since he could use that size to take on double teams - which is what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do along with providing interior pressure - but I just can't see him being able to do that with much success at this point in his career and with the current skill-level he has. Explosiveness doesn't really have that much to do with what an ideal 3-4 DE is about, but I only listed that as something that could potentially allow Smith to compensate for his lack of size, but again he doesn't have that explosiveness off the LOS. Smith has the ideal size for a 4-3 DE, but 3-4 DEs are ideally bigger than their 4-3 counterparts - not that his size alone makes him a bad fit, but it's definitely part of the issue.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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