Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

Where do you see a contract value grade vs performance on Lofton?

I searched the article and found nothing on him.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

I guess they didn't grade everyone. It couldn't have been that bad if he didn't make the list and was a key acquisition... I would think.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

But you called out Vilma and Smith, knowing both are currently being re-negotiated and that everyone that wants them back wants them back at a huge pay reduction.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

I called out Vilma and Smith because they were graded. You called out Loften for?

Ive seen zero news that there are negotiations indeed happening between the Saints and Vilma or Smith.

The Saints have gone public saying they 'want" to restructure but that has yet to happen.
Sources: Saints Seek Restructured Deals For Vilma, Smith* - Sports News - ABC News Radio

Until there is a restructure, there is no restructure. Until there is news that restructuring is in progress, there is no restructuring going on.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

But you claimed that "yet some want them back". I don't recall a single person saying they wanted them back at their current salary.

So you've never read one single quote on these boards along the lines of "Vilma is the leader of our defense, I would like to see him come back".

I'm treating the absence of "at a reduced pay" as not a condition since it wasn't mentioned.


Again, your basis for your statement on Lofton? "Lofton graded worse than Vilma".

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

I have never seen or read one single quote that said anyone wanted them back at their current salaries. I'm just curious who the "some" are you're referring to. Another board perhaps?

Lofton graded worse than Vilma on PFF grades, which I believe are the grades used for this article.

Vilma was rated 100th, and Lofton was rated 104th.

Edit: Vilma ranked 100th at OLB, Lofton ranked 104th at MLB, so I'm correct but it is kinda apples and oranges.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

PFF ranked them on performance for 2012... That is a different approach than Performance Based Value. While one player may preform greater than another his contract may be grossly large making him a lessor value.

It looks like PFF is not finished as they have done QBs, Kickers and Punters, and Teams but not by the remaining positions just yet.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-based-value/

If someone doesn't say they want him back and INCLUDE "at a lower price" I see no caveat to that desire.

I will ask this question again... Vilma is in his last year, there is no restructuring for it, there is no place to redistribute to. So... are you talking a new contract or an extension? Do you think that with his steady decline in the last few years that we cant find better value for the next 3-4 years?

His AV (Average Value) has been in a steady decline since 2010.

Johnathan Vilmas AV for 2012 - 3
Jonathan Vilma NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Loftons AV for comparison. 2012 - 7
Jonathan Vilma NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Vilma AV for 2012 = 3 Cap hit for 2013 $8.6m
Lofton AV for 1021 = 7 ... Cap hit for 2013 $3.1m (Lofton restructured a few weeks ago)


I'm not sure Lofton is a good value comparison for Vilma in regards to this debate lol.

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

Once again, no one said they wanted Vilma or Smith back at their current salaries. There have been posts about them re-structuring, which I pointed out that Vima can not restructure without an extension, which is a re-negotiation.

http://blackandgold.com/saints/55702...-contract.html

http://blackandgold.com/saints/55581...structure.html

Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints
 

ELLIS has to be the biggest bunk asre player payton ever drafted. he needs to hang it up.