Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Basically we have nothing left to spend with out making room.

Being $3.2M under with the Draft, Practice Squad, and any early season injuries unaccounted for leaves us with nothing left to spend for the most part.

The only Contracts left that can be cut that are of any significant value and do not contain any dead money are as follows:

Pierre Thomas - $2.5M
Chris Ivory - $2M
De la Puenta - $2M
Junior Gallet - $800k
The rest are below $715K


New Orleans Saints - 2013 Cap Hits

Greer and Evans have room for restructure.

With out either of those two restructuring or unless Harper takes a huge salary cut we are pretty much done in Free Agency.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

What about Harper's contract? They haven't reworked it yet.

Tampon seems to still have a ton of cap space.... yikes

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Looking at the list, and considering the fact that we still have Ingram, Sproles, and Cadet, Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory look like good candidates. I hate that. I'm as big a Pierre Thomas fan as anyone.

If we draft Jonathan Cooper in the first, as I think Hagan might, DLP could go. Or if we draft someone like Barrett Jones later.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

We still have room. We have about 80 players under contract so the practice squad won't cost us any additional money. Onlt the top 52 players account for the cap right?

Draft picks are dirt cheap, and we only have to sign 5 of them. Simply forcing Harper to restructure or releasing him outright would give us all we need to sign draft picks.

I think we probably have room for 2 more mid-tier free-agents, or one high dollar one.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

There are a few decisions that have to be made in regards to Harpers contract:Roman Harper Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

1. With two seasons left on his contract, Do the Saints want to keep him for +3 years (5 years total)? If you want to keep him and feel you cant get better for less than you can extend his contract and spread things out. If you feel you do not want to keep him longer than this contract then you have very no room to work with.

2. Can we handle the cap hit to cut him? No

3. Is he tradeable with a $7m cap hit? Ed Reed just signed for the Texans at $5M/year so I would say no.

The issue here is Sean Payton keeping 4 backs, and Cadet being unproven. We have absolutely no reason to get rid of Sproles or PT, we could not fill those shoes at a better value... Sproles and PT both outperform their contract values. So we are left with Ingram and Ivory.. One that is fragile and one that the league perceives as not living up to his first round draft status.

My final question, what are people wanting to get in return for Ingram or Ivory? (not picks but what position are you hoping to fill)

There are an awful lot of people wanting to trade away players for draft picks.. On a GOOD year 35 rookies start their rookie season... Please don't go hoping we are going to draft a rookie that will make an immediate impact at any position. I just think some people want to make moves because they see other teams making moves and feel we should also for no other reason that trying to keep up.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Good stuff, but Harpers total cap hit doesn't go with him on a trade.

We'd eat the signing bonus (3.5 million spread over two years = 1.75 million), but the team trading for him only has to pay his base salary, which is 5.25 this year and 6.0 next year.

Cutting Harper outright costs us 1.75 million in 2013 and 1.75 million in 2014.
We'd save 3.5 million this year.

My numbers may be off a tad. I think some of his base salary is guaranteed.

Thanks on the bonus not moving with him.

Right now the market wouldn't support a trade for Harper unless a teams thinks he is = to Ed Reed.

As far as I know cutting a player accelerates all bonus to the present year. That is why you see all of it as dead money this year on Spotrac. $6.1M dead money.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Yep, but there's a new CBA rule that lets you spread that out over two seasons. I'm not sure that rule applies to a traded player though. It may only be available for cut players.

I'm not sure the Ed Reed comparison is a good one. He's a Free Safety and a shadow of his former self. Down the stretch he looked nothing like the young Ed Reed we're used to seeing.

With all the bonuses included, Harper is the 6th best paid safety in the league. Drop the bonus money and he's probably in the middle of the pack, which is about where he should be.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Meet the Starting Lineup for 2013.... Plus the Draft.

I don't expect anymore signings...

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

We hashed this one out before and i just remembered the rule. With the new CBA Harper would have had to have been cut or designated for cut before 1 June in order to spread the dead money out..

Harper could be one of the Designees.

Player cut or traded
If a player is cut before the end of his contract, the entire unamortized signing bonus money (the remaining prorated bonus money) accelerates immediately and counts against the 2013 salary cap.
The same rule applies when a player is traded or picked up by another team off the waiver wire. The signing bonus remaining on the player's contract accelerates into his old team's salary cap in 2013. The new team takes no cap hit whatsoever. In our example, the $6 million remaining unamortized signing bonus accelerates immediately as follows:
In essence, trading or cutting a player saves the old team from paying the player's base salary, but that comes at the price of taking a cap hit by having to account for the full accelerated signing bonus. In our example, cutting the player saves the team $1 million in cap space in 2013.
The money left on the cap from the cap hit teams take by cutting player is called dead money. In this example, the team would be left with $6 million of 'dead money' on their 2013 cap. But the team has an additional option at its disposal.
June 1 cuts
If a player is cut before June 1, 2013, the remaining signing bonus accelerates and counts against the 2013 salary cap. But if a player is cut after June 1 this year, only the 2013 part of the unamortized signing bonus counts against the cap in 2013, while the remainder counts against the 2014 cap. Teams can designate up to two players as "June 1 cuts" even if they cut them before June 1, 2013. This is what the cap situation would look like if our player was designated a June 1 cut:

By designating the player a June 1 cut, the team lowers its 2013 cap hit to $2 million, but will have $4 million in dead money counting against its 2014 cap.


Salary Cap 101: Proration, Amortization, Cap Hits, Dead Money And More - Blogging The Boys

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Good stuff Oak, I guess its a pay me now or pay me later with Harper.

The ability to spread his cap hit out over two years means his 2013 job is definitely NOT safe.

I'd bet he's first on the chopping block if there's a free agent we covet.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Brilliant Oak. Love this. Thanks.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Exactly why I am thinking there has been no pay cut or restructure at this point. He will be a June 1st casualty.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

The only problem I see is that his contract say 16 million guaranteed. His bonus money doesn't come close to that figure at all.

So what else is guaranteed in his contract?

My guess is that since they list 6 million as dead money (which also doesn't equal all his bonus money) that the 6 million is the figure we'll be able to spread over two years.

But... can guaranteed money be spread out like that? Its not bonus money, its guaranteed money. I think there's a difference.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

I noticed the same thing but didnt interpret previously for the sake of keeping the facts I could find in tact.

I need to dig deeper because there are bonus items that fall into the LTBE and NLTBE category.

Examples: It gets sort of gray as websites to not differentiate.

LTBE: Likely to be earned- Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 8 interceptions.

NLTBE: Not Likely To be Earned -Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 16 interceptions.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

He brought charts!!!

Damn, I love this site.

Thanks Oak!

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

I'll call Mickey and have him explain it to me.

We're pretty tight so I'll get back with you later.:)

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Good stuff Oak!!

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

I found this earlier and it seems the Dead Money Calculation is a little more entailed than just adding up prorated bonuses.

I literally had to spread sheet this to make it balance and this is what I come up with. If I had not, I would have not slept until I figured it out LOL. :brood:

Dead Money Owned by 2013 - $1,750,000
Dead money Owned by 2014 - $4,250,000
*There is a 100,000 delta in the equation which I "assume" is a hit for his 100,000 ETBE Work out Bonus. (which apparently you only take a hit for in the cut year)
TOTAL dead money right now is $6.1M

The contrived formula the NFL uses is outlined below.

What happens if a player is cut before his contract expires?
Let’s use John Doe as an example. Let’s say his team decides to cut him with two years remaining on his contract. Take the remaining prorated bonus ($2M per year times two, or $4M), and take his base salary, $1M. Subtract the remaining signing bonus from the base. The result is minus $3M, which means that John would cost his team $3M in dead money (money that essentially goes to waste and can’t be used on another contract.)

This is why many teams wait to cut a player in the final year on their contract, as usually the base salary is significantly higher than the remaining prorated portion of the signing bonus

NFL Salary Cap Primer | Inside Football

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

So, we're broke?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Nope. We have $3M.



We just cant spend it with out venturing into dangerous waters. :-)

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Whew!!! That was a close one. Thanks.;)

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Looks like the LT position will be filled by someone already on the roster. Can't see them talking a LT in the first round and starting him day 1, not happening.
Trading down if possible makes since to get more players and hopefully at least 1 or 2 will work out, this wouldn't cost that much considering where they were drafted.
Can't trade down best player available, I certainly hope it's Tavon Austin, OMG the things they could do with him.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Joker, I really feel like if Tavon Austin falls to 15th then the Niners will come calling. As much as I like Austin's potential, I like the idea of us getting an extra pick in this draft a little more.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

What is this thing with wanting to take Tavon Austin? Don't get it. Never been the M.O. of the Saints to take a WR in the 1st round. Regardless of the BPA schtick.

I think this draft they go by BPA in regards of need. And right now our major needs are LT and Front 7.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Tavon Austin is a jack of all trades and we already have two of those. Sproles and Cadet.

I dont like the amassing lower round draft picks... Not when you have a need for starters as a specific position.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

What? We have 5.6 tied up in kickers?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Why yes, we certainly do.:bang:

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Oak, You don't think the Niners' first round pick and a second round pick would be just as viable places to find starters as our 15th?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Robert Meachem

Agreed.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Oak,

I know that I have been pretty vocal about Austin. I agree that we still have other positions that need to be tended too. But, Payton has been at his best with his offense when he has players like Austin, creating match up problems and extending the field. I can see packages where both Sproles, Austin and Graham create massive issues for defenses in the flats and in the intermediate areas.

I'm not ready to put Cadet in the same sentence as Sproles or Austin. We just got a sample size showing of what his abilities are. He put the ball on the carpet a few times, so his hands worry me a bit.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

He is a lagniappe player. We have needs that have to be filled first then we can move into the wants.

We also have limited funds to address the needs at this point, so.... We may not be able to afford the wants.

Lord forbid we pick up another player that requires a lot of playing time and he doesn't get it.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

In a good year maybe 30-35 drafted players start their rookie season. On rare occasion do you go to the draft for a starter.

How do you propose we get these 49ers picks? What exactly do we have that they need?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

If the Niners decide to trade up for our 15th pick shouldn't it cost them their 31st pick and a second round pick or something very similar? That's what we gave to trade up for Ingram.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Why would they want our pick.... What do they need?

You do realize they already have 14 draft picks correct?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Yes, sir. I'm fully aware of the situation. The discussion was about Tavon Austin falling to 15th. It has been said that SF covets him. It has also been said that there is no way that Austin slips past the Rams at 16th. Wouldn't that pose a perfect scenario in which SF could trade up with us to get a player that they really want and STILL have a boat load of picks?

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Be cautious of leaked info. Many teams play games to throw other teams off their player, or to get other teams to try and pick the wrong person thinking they are making a steal.

Harbaugh is just goofy enough to be unpredictable.

Chances are if they want him they will propose a swap with an AFC team so the Saints can't benifit.

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Well, you're no fun. ;-)

Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)
 

Doh & Bart :doh: