APB Saintz08
 

I've been waiting for 08 to weigh in on several of these threads for the past few days. Is he alright, anyone heard from him?

Illumine us 08.


:kerry:

APB Saintz08
 

08 is at a conspiracy theory seminar learning new and exciting ways to mask his agenda. ;)

APB Saintz08
 

Saintfan, for a guy who claims to be such an unbiased evaluator of reality, why is that you always claim everyone who sees things differently than you has an agenda? Seriously, do you realize how biased and unrealistic that sounds?

But let\'s assume for a moment that guys like Gator, 08, MG, and I have an agenda - what is it? Simply to see AB gone from NO? Why? What can your argument be other than we simply want to see the Saints suceed and might not believe he gives us the best chance (which I will say is not the case for me right now, but has not always been). I mean, your pro-Brooks agenda must be b/c you secretly have some connection or personal interest in AB right? No. And none of us have ever suggested that. We have simply disagreed with your opinion that AB a) gave us the best chances at the time, and b) would develop into a QB that would give us the best chance to win eventually. It sure seems like we were wrong on the latter, but so what? It sure seems like you were completely wrong about Haslett and this staff. My point here is simply, where do you get off? I have an agenda? Yeah I do - it\'s do give my opinion about what I think the team needs to do to win. What\'s yours?

APB Saintz08
 

You messed up here using the word \"everyone\", because I don\'t claim everyone who sees things differently has an agenda...only those about which it\'s obvious. ;)

APB Saintz08
 

Have only one thought here .

Someone put Saintfan back in the closet and nail it shut .....

Agenda , what agenda ??

Just give me a Head Coach with some Super Bowl experience and teach KY Brooks to wipe his hands off every now and then and we should all get along fine ..... :icon_bs:

[Edited on 26/9/2004 by saintz08]

APB Saintz08
 

Way to skirt the topic Saintfan. Those who are \"obvious\" - by that it seems that it is clear to everyone here who those people are because their bias is so strong it cannot be masked. Ok - humor me - who are those \"obvious\" members and what is the \"obvious\" agenda they have? What\'s the master plan Saintfan? Enlighten us all.


... anybody want to bet he doesn\'t even come close to answering those questions?

APB Saintz08
 

08 has faulted Haz for consulting with other coaches and players as if he\'s the ony coach to have ever done such a thing.

08 has indicated that our TE\'s have played poorly because of Brooks.

08 has indicated that our WR\'s have problems catching the ball because of Brooks.

08 has indicated that our blocking suffers because of Brooks.

See a trend here? Find a problem on the team and 08 will blame Brooks. There are literally thousands of posts that prove it. I dont\' really think I need to waste my time re-posting the quotes here, since you read the same board I read...or do you?

APB Saintz08
 

That\'s interesting. I didn\'t see my name or Gator\'s name up there. Or even BMGs. Why then do you come after us more harshly than you ever attack 08?

It goes both ways too Saintfan...

YOU blame an O-line that excels in pass protection for Brooks\' bad games.

YOU blame WRs for not catching poorly thrown balls

YOU blame the coaches when Brooks can\'t call the right play

YOU blame the defense for games when Brooks turns the ball over 3 times.

It\'s all a matter of how you look at it buddy. You call me a spin artist, but I\'m not sure if there is a better one on this board than you.

My basic point remains - if we have an agenda, what is it? You still haven\'t answered the most important question. Let\'s assume that everything you just said about 08 is true and the guy clearly skews things and blames Brooks for things that aren\'t his fault. WHY does he do that? What\'s the agenda? To get Brooks out of NO? WHY? Maybe, right or wrong, sane or crazy, 08 feels that way b/c it is what he feels is best for the Saints. If you\'re going to start judging peoples\' motives by whether or not they are right, maybe we should look at your track record - I think you might fall in the wacko category too then, no?

[Edited on 26/9/2004 by WhoDat]

APB Saintz08
 

Nope...but I do blame them for missing blocks that result in bad plays. I also think the word \"excels\" is a tad strong when describing this group. I find it interesting that you point to the strength of the opposing defenses when presented with Deuce\'s late season (and continuing) slide, but you\'re more than ready to praise the line for their pass blocking against...the 49ers? LMAO

Nope (again). I blame them for not catching catchable balls. Catchable does not mean perfect...but then they drop the prefect ones too. ;)

I blame them for leaving him hanging, yeah. But then YOU blame them for Willie Roaf\'s problems at home with his wife. LOL

Did I? Refresh my memory. I do, however, blame the defence for allowing an insane number of points forcing Brooks to lead the offense to 30+ a game to win. ;)

At times, yes, I do. Look UP for the reason why. ;)


So then, it\'s ok for someone to clearly (there\'s that word again) mis-represent facts simply because it\'s a means to an end? Really? Dude, I know you well enough to know you don\'t really think that...right?

APB Saintz08
 

Got me a Saintfan whoop ass can , don\'t make me open it now ...

:dance:

APB Saintz08
 

One thing is for sure 08...you are consistant. You know I love ya ;)

:dancingmonkey:

APB Saintz08
 

Bt the way...how was the seminar? LOL


:broccoli:

APB Saintz08
 

saintfan, you gotta lose the fat guy sig, it\'s giving me a complex! :popcorn: :hungry:

APB Saintz08
 

Skirted.

APB Saintz08
 

Don\'t Worry Whodat. I won\'t tell. LMAO ;)

Saintfan: \"So then, it\'s ok for someone to clearly (there\'s that word again) mis-represent facts simply because it\'s a means to an end? Really? Dude, I know you well enough to know you don\'t really think that...right? \"

I\'m still waiting on you to provide me with your moral stance Whodat. Skirted? I\'d say you did just that.

APB Saintz08
 

I did notice that you skirted the question even with your. You see Saintfan, you cannot answer a straight question. Never have been able to.

But I\'ll answer yours, as usual. Is it OK for someone to misrepresent facts? No. I\'m not sure 08 does that. He may have a \"unique\" take on things and he my speculate a lot, but I don\'t see him saying AB had 200 yards when in fact he had 280. He may say AB had 280 b/c the Rams pass-D is ranked 31st... how is that wrong?

Now, again, a simple question. Can you actually answer it? My guess is no.

WHAT is 08\'s agenda and WHY does he support it?

APB Saintz08
 

Ooops .....

Kinda goofed on that one , the N.F.L. has a bizarre rating system on their site . While they list the Rams at the 31st position the numbers do not work to support that position .

Although , they are not far from that position .

1. Seattle
2. Pittsburgh
3. Baltimore
4. New England
5. Denver
12. Arizona
18. New Orleans
27. St. Louis

So far to date Seattle seems to be the best test to measure Brooks by .....

[Edited on 27/9/2004 by saintz08]

APB Saintz08
 

His agenda, as if you need me to explain it (I dunno, maybe you aren\'t very perceptive and need that very thing) is getting rid of Haz and Brooks. Breath now Whodat. LOL

08 has speculated and mis-represented for a LONG time, and you seem to be ok with that. Funny, but typical of a Moonshiner.

Now, skirt this. Tell me where I did any of the following:

A perfect example of a moonshiner making something up to support his agenda. I\'ve seen you dive in and attempt to rescue some of the more negative opinions, so I wonder why it is you would post this sort of thing? I\'ll be waiting on those quotes...and no spinning...either I did those things or I didn\'t. ;)

APB Saintz08
 

This is my favorite, because 08 blamed Brooks for Deuce\'s fumble !!!!!!!!

I didn\'t see you darting in to call him on it either. Ain\'t that sumthin\'?

LMMFAO

APB Saintz08
 

Deuce seemed to point a finger in the same direction ...... ;)

While Brooks mind is rolling around in playbook fantasy land , players can get injured and fumbles and such can occur ...

:read:

Is it too much to assume that at year 5 Brooks might have learned the playbook ???

APB Saintz08
 

This, along with the rest of your post, only proves what I\'ve been accusing you of for years now.

Deuce was carrying the ball, on his own mind you, and was beyond the line of scrimmage, when he got popped and dropped the ball...of his own accord. Yes, it was a busted play 08. Of that there is no doubt, but the busted play didn\'t result in Deuce dropping the ball, his failure to hold on to it did. ;)

APB Saintz08
 

See. I didn\'t even have to prove it. 08 was kind enough to come here and do it for me. What say you Whodat?

APB Saintz08
 

Clueless as usual ....

Wrong ...:dunce:

McAllister is initially popped at the Saints 40 when the line of scrimmage was at the Saints 41 . Deuce goes to hit the hole on a standard power play with Karney leading but the linemen are blocking into the gap , McAllister adjusts to go left and gets popped in the backfield . The initial hit forces Deuces helmet Down and as he is adjusting it and going forward the Seattle player gets a helmet on the ball and it comes out .

Simply put , Brooks is responsible for knowing the playbook and calling the proper play and blocking scheme , Brooks did not .

APB Saintz08
 

What\'s amazing to me is that you can look at the kind of stuff posted above and suggest that there is no factual basis or at least a QUESTION OF FACT, to use a legal term, that would support an opinion other than your own. One thing is for sure - no other person on this board accuses others of skewing facts or having an agenda more than you. That\'s disappointing, especially from a moderator. But that\'s OK - if the Saints don\'t make the playoffs this year, we\'ll see if this terrible agenda that you allege guys like 08 and I have to get Haslett out of town is so skewed after all. YOUR agenda is more clear than any 08 may have - protect Haslett and Brooks at all costs. How do you do that? Not with statements that show insight or even an opinion, only with sarcasm and attacks that cut at others. All while pretending to be a moderator intent on encouraging the open and safe expression of opinion. Sad, sad, sad.

APB Saintz08
 

Where is the fact is 08\'s blaming that fumble on Brooks? Please whodat...tell me where there\'s ANY truth to that a\'tall. YYou TIVO the games don\'t you? Go back and look at that play. Was Brooks anywhere NEAR Deuce when he fumbled? Was there a problem with the exchange? Did Aaron himself reach in a try to knock the ball out? No, no no. Deuce was being tackled. Another SEATTLE player came up and smacked him and he (Deuce, not Brooks) dropped the football. What amazes me is how you simply REFUSE to acknowledge some of this stuff. You won\'t deny it...you just blow it off. I think the word you like to use is \"skirt\".

Safe? Yeah...I have my own way to accomplish \"safe\". How many times have you, yes you (and another in particular) attacked another\'s viewpoint Whodat? How many times have you sought Proof from someone else\'s statement? You know what they say about throwing rocks in glass houses I assume? This isn\'t personal, but you and your buddy don\'t like to be challenged I guess. I\'m not name calling or breaking rules. I\'m just asking you guys to prove some of this stuff you acknowledge openly speculating on. As I\'ve said before, speculation is one thing, but the spin you use is something else.

If you wanna make it personal, head on over to the \"Everything Else\" board.

What, is my \"agenda\" whodat? To Protect Brooks and Haz? No, not really. I admit tho that I somewhat enjoy callin\' you moonshiners out from time to time when your wild speculation and baseless assumptions and skewed statistics go a bit too far. I enjoy pointing out that you call me out for an open interpretation of stats yet you give 08 a pass on some pretty seriously slanted comments.

What insight do you have that isn\'t speculation...and funny how most of you moonshiners speculate to the negative...ALL the time. Tell me Whodat, how can Everything wrong with the Saints be the Fault of Brooks? You know it\'s not, and I know you know. Yet I blame Deuce and Deuce alone for his recent troubles and you\'re all over me...you and Gator. I find that telling.

My being a Moderator...a fact you and Gator like to toss around...doesn\'t preclude me from typing an opinion or asking for facts to support opinions. You don\'t have to like the fact that I disagree with you. That\'s ok, but the name calling and language your boy Gator uses is unacceptable. You KNOW this yet you continue to defend it.

08 has an agenda. There is post after post after post that will show that. Silly things that even he doesn\'t take seriously. You\'re willin\' to overlook it because...well, I don\'t know why. My \"agenda\" as you call it, is more about callin you guys out from time to time when you take your insinuations over the edge. You don\'t like it. And?

By the way, I\'m still waiting for you to prove that I made any of the following statements. I wonder why you\'d insinuate I did so and then not be willing to acknowledtge it further. Skirt much?


Still waiting...

APB Saintz08
 

Do we need to draw you little pictures Saintfan ??

Brooks calls the wrong blocking formation and the blockers are blocking into the gap .

Deuce is smacked behind the line of scrimmage and the helmet is impairing his vision .

As deuce is trying to adjust his helmet and get the first down , he is blindsided by a player and the ball comes out . Because he does not have the time to get the cover hand down to cover the ball .

Now work it backwards - real simple :

Deuce does not cover the ball and the ball comes out . Why because he is initially hit behind the line of scrimmage and the cover hand is adjusting his helmet .

Why is he hit behind the line of scrimmage ? Brooks calls a phantom play and the blocking is incorrect .

Not like this is news on the Brooks front ......

To Brooks the correct play and blocking scheme is a simple formality ..... ;)

APB Saintz08
 

No one is arguing the play. Deuce is responsible for holding on to the football. GOD I wish we could post video here and someone had a copy. Deuce has no excuse and no one to blame other than himself. HE dropped the ball...it\'s really simple 08.

Of course I expect such biased views coming from you. ...and it\'s not that I expect any less from any of the other moonshiners, but c\'mon people, Deuce dropped that ball. Again, I\'m not amazed that you\'d try and blame it on Brooks since you attempt to blame EVERYTHING on Brooks, but for Whodat to attempt to defend it is very telling. Very telling indeed.

You know, as I reall, Whodat has already posted that Deuce is responsible for his play. That makes his attempt to defend this sillyness even more odd.
:casstet:

APB Saintz08
 

Isn\'t this a funny addition to this fun fun thread?

Can anyone here guess who said that? LMAO

APB Saintz08
 

How about this one :

Deuce drops the ball while trying to compensate for the fact that Brooks does not know the playbook .

I mean get real here , we have a player who makes 6 million a year as a starting quarterback in the N.F.L. who does not know the plays in the playbook and sends the runningback into the wrong gap based upon the blocking scheme .

Brooks job is to call the right play , pure and simple .

Did he do it ?? NO

APB Saintz08
 

I\'m not sure that 08 is claiming that Deuce shouldn\'t have held on to the ball. Everyone knows that Deuce should hang on to the ball. The issue that 08 seems to be focusing on is whether Deuce should have taken the handoff and knelt or try to get back to the line.

What I don\'t understand is how anyone could give Brooks a pass for not knowing the playbook. It isn\'t like it\'s all new for him. As is said ad nauseum to defend Brooks, \"its a team sport\". Well in this case, the other 10 guys on the field had no idea what they were supposed to be doing because Brooks gave some kind of imaginary play. He makes $6 million a year, he should have EVERY play down cold and if McCarthy doesn\'t get the play to him in time, he should at least call a play that the other 10 guys actually know.

:kerry:

APB Saintz08
 

Not much Deuce could have done . Deuce\'s mistake was trying to make something out of Brooks playbook ignorance . Deuce was caught behind the line with his helmet pulled down over his eyes and a Seahawk got a helmet on an unprotected ball .

Brooks calls the right play and it is first and ten . Instead he makes a play up and get\'s the runningback suicided .

Moments after the play ended , Deuce was on the field phone to McCarthy , so Deuce knew exactly what happened . Funny part is that when a mistake is made and Deuce is a part of it , he heads to the sideline to figure out how that happened and how it could be corrected . If Brooks makes a mistake he heads to the bench to smile for the camera ....

APB Saintz08
 

I\'ll chalk this one up to Deuce - no problem with that. That\'s his second one this year, and it need to improve. Of course, when I think back to last year I can think of one on short yardage and two more. So I can remember, off the top of my head, 5 fumbles for Deuce in the last two years. He\'s probably had a few more so let\'s double it and call it 10 shall we?

How many fumbles has Brooks had, and lost in that time? Brooks has LOST more fumbles that Deuce HAS over the last year and a quarter. Good argument Saintfan.

Take it a step further - how many fumbles has AB lost in our or the opponents red zone in the last two years? Deuce?

APB Saintz08
 

A handful, to be sure Whodat. I recall the second Tampa game last year. Brooks throws a strike in the end zone and the receiver drops the ball. On the very next play he fumbled the snap. Do I remember that correctly?

My issue with you moonshiners is you fail to recognize the dropped pass and harp on the fumbled snap. You see it as me givin\' Brooks a pass, but that\'s not the case. I focused on the defense giving up 30+ frappin\' points a game while you guys were busy hollerin\' about the QB, who, in spite of the fumbles, had more than respectable numbers.

This thread is about 08\'s abvious agenda. One even you must admit. You\'ve admitted it before. Why back off it now?

APB Saintz08
 

What is this comment WhoDat ???

APB Saintz08
 

Sorry 08 - it was sarcasm, but I guess it didn\'t come across right. Saintfan spent this whole thread trying to prove you\'re a nut, and I was just trying to put things in perspective. Hey man, I\'ve been defending you, you wacko! ;)

Not true - I was all over Horn abuot that dropped pass against Tampa. No question that had a huge impact on the game and Horn should have caught it. But then, this goes back to Billy turnover argument. What\'s worse, a dropped pass in the end zone where you get another chance or have to kick a field goal, or a fumble that turns the ball over to the other team? Joe Horn\'s drop was a mistake, but his mistake doesn\'t make Brooks\' OK. You know that.

And don\'t come to me about the defense. I may have been hard on Brooks in the past, but I have definitely been very tough on Venturi and Haslett about the defense and their lack of moves to fix it. I\'ve also torn up just abuot every position on that side of the ball. There\'s not a guy that didn\'t get picked on by me at some point.

APB Saintz08
 

Leave it to Saintfan to miss some key point .....What\'s new ....

Still do not agree that Deuce is solely responsible for the fumble . The man was bushwacked in the backfield on a play that Brooks made up in his head . Not sure but this play may be the reason McCarthy is back on the sidelines , rather then in the booth .

WhoDat - got a question for you . Have you ever caught a football traveling at 90 miles an hour ???

APB Saintz08
 

This is the argument you use against me ALL THE TIME in an effort to \"skirt\" the point I\'m usually trying to make, which is that the moonshiners typically (usually -- in fact nearly always) ignore every issue related to this team\'s (at times) poor performance and jump right in on the Brooks bashing. I suspect this is why it took you nearly a year to \"acknowledge\" the fact that our receivers were (and so far this year still are) dropping catchable passes. You know this is true...acknowledge it or don\'t, but the history is right here on this web site. Look to 08\'s most recent post in this thread. He\'ll blame these dropped passes on Brooks. It never ends with this guy. If you fail to recognize it you\'re either ingnorant, blind, or your agenda won\'t allow you to admit it. For what it\'s worth I know you\'re not ignorant and I doubt your blind. ;)

I have NEVER...that\'s N-E-V-E-R attempted to indicate that another players mistake provided Brooks with any level of an excuse. I, once again, challenge you to find a post that even approaches showing why you might accuse me of that. In fact (are you wearing your \"skirt\" today) I\'m still waiting on you to find any evidence of my ever having said any of the following:


On the other hand, you\'ll find Negative moonshinin\' naysayers (look to 08 for your profile) doing exactly the opposite --hold Brooks responsible for another player\'s mistake -- and you need look no further than this very thread. Defend his silly little logic if you must, but you and I both know the deal. Have you heard his reasoning for Deuce\'s other fumble this year? Nope, but if you press him hard enough he\'ll find Brooks at fault for it...somehow. Someway.

Ahhh, sarcasm. Let\'s just remember that you akcnowledge using \"sarcasm\". Willing to cast the first stone eh Whodat? LMAO