Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

To me I couldnt tell if any particular player was to blame, it looked like ***up by commitee. Even Evans played poorly. Who is the weakest link?

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Evans has a hurt leg... He was seen having it looked at in the second Qtr... DLP and Strief missed some key blocks last night...

I am not saying Grubs or Brown didn't miss any blocks, there were just none that stood out like the others or I blinked.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I don't think they're nearly as bad as they played yesterday. That was a very good Bucs d-line, and it's always going to be harder for the o-line to block on a wet field. D line has a big advantage in that situation.

Evans is obviously playing hurt hurt, Brown is a replacement-level player and Strief is average as he has always been. Grubbs and de la Puente seem to be playing fine. I think they'll get it together in a week or two. Remember, we don't need the tackles to play great, never have.

If Evans has to sit next week I would not be surprised. He looks practically hobbled out there. Get him rested and healthy for the rest of the season now, that's what backups are for.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I am not sure if the offensive line is really an issue right now, I do know they were handled yesterday. That Buccaneers defense is a really good one, I noticed Brees had to hold on to the ball longer than usual. The Tampa secondary did a great job on the Saints WRs, and made a great half time adjustment on Graham.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

The line has been on the decline since Nicks left,loosing Bushrod and most importantly Kromer was a big loss.You cant go from
Bushrod-Nicks-Puente-Evans-Strief to Brown-Grubbs-Puente-Evans-Strief with the loss of the O-Line coach and expect no dropoff.
We really must hope that Armstead steps up by the end of the season and id like to see a new RT drafted in the offseason,or try Armstead at RT and draft a new LT.If the O-Line cant keep Brees protected its game over

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

There's this guy named Strief I'm not to big on...I think we might have talked about it before.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Pro Football Focus rates Strief number three of 67 tackles at this point in the season.
Guessing they don't care what you think!

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

beside OT? we have one in the wings and still have no one pushing Strief. so we all know the issues here

So the first move i would make is run de la Puente through stunt drills till he dropped then drag him to the weight room and in the off season entertain the idea of drafting a replacement if he does not improve. the center of the pocket must hold

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I've been concerned with the O-line since the preseason began, but honestly,
yesterday, I think they held up well, considering the quality of the defense
they were playing. There were numerous plays where Brees had plenty of
time, and just didnt see anyone open.

I am concerned about the running game.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Our tackles are playing just fine... It's the interior that's having trouble and that's uncharted territory for a team whose line is built from the inside out.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I won't argue that TB has a improved D. But we have a regressed O line.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Tampa has a very good D.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I agree Tampa has a good D. They will be top 10 at least. Our line still sucks though.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I went back and watched this game.

First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I agree with JV on the wet field. I didn't hear any questions about it other than a comment about players cleaning their cleats often. We play that indoors and some of what Tampa was able to do gets nullified but no question they have talent. Our receivers were covered well. It's going to be interesting to see if they can repeat some of that against the Pats. I think our OL is good enough though. The last drive they stood their ground against a rested D and protected Brees when it absolutely mattered.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I too have concerns with the offensive line. Drew is also looking a bit more rushed than in the past. TB D is decent, but I feel there are more concerns than in past seasons. 2 weeks
does not a season make, I just don't want it to be a long season for our qb. I cannot see them getting stronger only more tired. I made this comment after watching week1.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Our offensive gameplanning looks much more contrived than the rapid-fire, rapid strike, record-setting offense of the last two years. However, both of our opponents this year were first-rate defenses and Division rivals.

That has to count for "something".

Brees has stopped doing the tap dance that he was famous for in '09. He's flat-footed with head thrown back, attempting to see over the line. What used to be instinct is now taking longer and exposing him more often than in past years.

BUT, it's early, and we have TWO WINS that neither Tampa or Atlanta have.

Alaska

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

[quote=The Dude;528796]I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. /QUOTE]

Brian de la Puente signs RFA tender with Saints | ProFootballTalk

Pro Football Focus graded the 27-year-old de la Puente second among centers in 2012. According to PFF, de la Puente surrendered just two sacks in 1,134 snaps.

In 2012 BDP graded out as PFF's seventh best run blocking center and the 6th best pass blocking center among centers who played atleast 60% of their teams snaps).

As for your other points, Nicks is now a chronic injury case, while Grubbs has generally been considered among the top 2 or 3 left guards in the game most of his career. Bushrod was a decent run blocker who would be considered a liability if Brees hadn't been so adept at stepping up in the pocket and avoiding pressure all these years. Brown is about his equal overall. Stinchcomb was a solid guy in his prime but by the end of his career was terrible. Strief was definitely no downgrade from that.

The names may have changed but not much has been lost in terms of overall talent. You also have to keep in mind that offensive line play is one of those things that evolves over the course of the season. We'll know more by week 6 or so, but based on their play in the first two games I don't see any big reason to worry.

To me this is the issue more than anything. That and Evans' back injury.

Best example I can think of is 2003, that line was awful early on in the season but by week 5 or 6 they had got their stuff together and ended up being one of the better groups in football and Deuce ran for like a bajillion yards behind that line. Things will come together, just gotta be patient.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Thank you for pointing this out...so many on this board seem to be in such a ridiculous hurry to declare Brees is finished and the O-line a bust...everything for them has to fit that narrative about the contract so that's all they see....it was not raining at the start of the game, but for most of that hour while they were in the lightning delay, and the network switched to the Lions/Cardinals on TV, people seem to forget that the field in Tampa was just sitting there getting rained on...there's no question in my mind, the "rough day at the office" for Brees and the line, started AFTER the rain delay...before it they were marching at will down the field....almost like two different games.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

I think Evans is hurt. He missed that game in Preseason. My guess is he is playing through an injury

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

"Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ?


Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Brown is learning the ropes.......Strief is all but finished and we miss Kromer more than I thought we would.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Jammal Brown. Traded to Redskins

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

No wonder it didn't click... How is Jamal Brown even relevant? He hasn't worn a Saints uniform since 2008 LOL...

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Well he was out there for a couple of games in 2009, then went down injured. But, we very decidedly won a Super Bowl without him, so.....not much to say there.

The problem with statements like, "Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone" is that, you can't keep the band together forever. You just can't. There is no team in the league that has the same offensive line they had in 2008, I can promise you that.

Here's one thing I don't understand, Dude...if it takes 2-3 SEASONS of the same guys for them to gel (which basically, no team in the league has, everyone has changes all the time), then how can you turn around and say the Saints line won't improve as the year goes on? Are you saying it takes a whole 48 games, and on the 48th they are suddenly good? Of course there is a good chance they are going to improve, game by game.

Actually, replacing one guy a year is FAR better for continuity purposes, than replacing more than one. So if you accept the reality that change is a part of life, then the Saints are trying to do it right, with as little disruption as possible. I could be wrong but I don't think they've ever had 2 intentional line changes in one season, except maybe the Olin Kreutz Experiment, which was a fiasco and kinda proves my point. Also Atlanta's line, right now, proves the point, too -- they have had a bunch of changes this year, not just one guy. It's a mess.

I agree with you about losing Kromer but nothing you can do about that. The guy wanted to advance his career, and felt it was time. Not much the team can do to make him stay.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Jamal Brown was on the field for us? Wow I figured this would be big news. Did we trade Ingram to get him back or something? Sheesh. Its relevant because since then we have had 3 different players at that position in the past 4 years. Not really a position you want to be swapping players around on. Granted there wasnt the drop off you would expect, but that could be due to Kromer than the players.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

There have been replacements at center and guard as well. Youre right that it wouldnt be so bad if it was just one position at a time over a period of time but we have downgraded just about every position except for Evans AND lost their coach.

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Going from Goodwin to De la Puente was not a downgrade. Goodwin was good, but never considered elite. De la Puente is very good to elite, depending on which expert is ranking him.

Neither was Stinchcomb to Strief a downgrade. If you don't recall how Stinchcomb played in his final season, go find some old games and see for yourself. He retired because his knees were shredded. Great guy, awesome guy, I love him to death. He spent damn near an hour talking to me for an interview in '09. But he was finished as a player.

Bushrod to Brown? Doubtful. I honestly think by the end of the year we'll be seeing this as an upgrade. Bushrod was a good run blocker but average overall and really benefitted from Brees' pocket awareness. Read up on the Bears message boards, they're not real thrilled with him so far. Search Results for Query: bushrod | DaBears - Chicago Bears Message Board and Fan Site[node]=9

Nicks to Grubbs? Sort of a downgrade, except Nicks has been an injury disaster since leaving and Grubbs has always been well-known as an elite player at his position.

Jammal Brown was so washed up and injury-prone the Redskins, a team with a bad offensive line desperate for help anywhere, traded for him only to discover he couldn't play left tackle anymore. They moved him to the right side for a couple of seasons, then made him take a pay cut, then voided the last three years of his contract.

No offense, I'm just not seeing the issues. If anything I think it's amazing how the Saints have been able to maintain the overall talent level on the o-line overall. (Depth is another issue, who the hell is Tim Lelito and why is he backing up all 3 interior line spots? LOL)

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Diatribes about nothing - ROCK.

Alaska

Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?
 

Don't know what your methods are for evaluating players, but Pro Football Focus (a pretty respected outfit) has consistently graded Strief as one of the better right tackles in football three years running (better meaning top half of the league, not top 10 or anything, but better than average.)

As for Kromer, what are you gonna do? Put a gun to his head, tell him he can't leave? I don't think people realize how lucky we have it. Being in the midwest I get to watch Colts, Lions, Packers and Bears games quite a bit and those teams have truly bad offensive lines. Any of those teams would love to trade their 5 guys for ours.