Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Saints tight end Jimmy Graham has finished the final year of his rookie deal, leaving the Saints with a couple of choices if they don’t want to risk losing him as a free agent.

They can sign Graham to a long-term deal or they can use the franchise tag, a choice that’s fraught with its own potential trouble for New Orleans. By NFL rule, players are given a franchise tag at the position where they participated in the most plays and Graham was used as a traditional, in-line tight end just one-third of the time during the 2013 season. That could set up a fight about whether Graham should be treated as a receiver or if the job description of a tight end has changed enough that he still qualifies at that spot.



Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal | ProFootballTalk

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Gonna be hard to prove he's a tight end.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

First salvo fired

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

because of the no-blocking thing? ;)

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Nahhh. Not really. Jimmy Graham will prove it for the team. The WR tag changes Jimmy's future more than just compensation wise and he knows it.

Is he a top 2 TE? yes
Is he a top 10 WR? Very arguable.
Could he get into the Hall of Fame as a TE? Yep
Could he get into the Hall of Fame as a WR? Nope
Is he capable of breaking a lot of TE records? Yep
Is he capable of breaking a lot of WR records? Nope.

IF we tag him as a WR he will still play the same roll but he will fall into a different category for records and HoF.

He will no longer be compared to Gonzo and Gronk.. Just realized all you need for an epic tight end is a last name that starts with a G . LOL

He will be compared to Megtron, Rice, Owens, Moss.... And that he is not.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

don't forget pro bowl... this year he is one of 5, easy call
is he undergoes the transformation would he go? probably, but he was 15th in yards, 13th in catches.
Not that anyone cares about the Pro Bowl, but most players have it in their contract, some even as high as $300,000

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Can't they use the exclusive rights tag like they used on Brees.... Don't want anyone talking to him.....

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

It'll be interesting to see what he does.

The TE tag would be 6.9 million a year. The Wide Receiver 11.7 million. That's a difference 4.8 million per year. And it will help determine where the negotiations begin for his next contract.

That's a lot of money to walk away from.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

What could be the advantages of putting a non-exclusive tag on him. I understand the exclusive but not the non-exclusive.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Just read up on the non-exclusive, thats the way to go. If a team really wants him 2 first rounders would be great. Loomis play hardball, sign him for his worth or get 2 first round picks, win, win.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

There is a little more to it than that.

In layman terms Non-exclusive means Jimmy would be offered the NEFT of 6.9M, from there he could go out and interview with anyone he wants to. If he get an offer in excess of the 6.9M he was offered, lets say the Falcons offer Jimmy 9m, the Saints have the right to match it and retain Jimmy. If the Saints chose not to match it then they have the right to two first round draft picks.

Now the NEFT is a cheaper tag than the EFT but has the risk of having to pay a lot more to keep the player.

NRFT is basically to test the market to find a players true perceived value.

Since this is Jimmy Graham we are talking about, I ask you... Is two first round draft picks worth facing him twice a year if he plays for Carolina... Atlanta.... Tampa bay?

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Yep. All you need is a corner or safety willing to be rough with him and he'll disappear.

Hell, trade Jimmy Graham for Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman straight up.

I'd love to keep you Jimmy, but I damn sure don't want to see us overpay you.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

I'll go out on a limb here in regards to a QB. Sean will not draft out next starting QB, it ill come via free agency just like Drew did. Knowing he had the #2 pick in that draft he didn't take a QB. Ill admit the draft class for QBs wasn't stellar but he didn't know that then.

Young
Leinart
Cutler
Jackson

He was strategic in his decision because he wanted a QB that was up and running... I see him doing the same for our next starting QB.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Yes!! Two 1st rounders could go a long way.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Yep.. We could end up with the next Ricky Williams and Donte' Stallworth, or perhaps another Will Smith. Sounds like a fair trade for Jimmy Graham.. :rolleyes:

How underwhelming.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Wow...are we really talking about letting Graham walk away for 2 draft picks? We get one Kenny Vaccaro and one Cam Jordan and we forget everyone else that gets/got crucified here weekly: Ingram, Ellis, Bush, Meachem, Jenkins and Robinson., and it is even WORSE before that.
I guess I would stick with the proven top 3 guy at his position before I traded for a potential bust

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

I rather have jimmy than not plus hes already grown with Brees and we know how Drew likes his security blanket. I honestly don't think its all about the money with Jimmy.

If hes willing to leave the game when Drew does and not have a Gonzo type career it must not be about money.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Welcome to the business season.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Let's hope Jimmy wants a SB more than a high salary

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

cheaper way to keep him in a cap tight year. next year drew can redo his contract with all the complication if he does it this year.

smart move in book.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Reading up on it a bit more, looks like the Saints can tag Graham up to 3 times.

My new theory is:

Tag him this year (exclusive)
Tag him next year and see how it goes
Tag him a third time (non-exclusive) and TAKE THE PICKS AND GET A QB.

I know people want to believe that Drew will be here forever, and I love Drew too....but let's remember, the dude has a SURGICALLY RECONSTRUCTED SHOULDER and has been underthrowing balls like crazy. And there's been a progression to the underthrows -- more noticeable this year than it was last year. I know we all want to believe "there's nothing wrong with Drew," that we're going to enjoy him forever, but that shoulder is a bit of a ticking time bomb. The closing of the window could be far away down the line, or it could be a lot sooner than we'd like to think. At the end of the day you have to admit that nobody knows. That's why I think paying Graham the average of the top 5 for a couple of years, is better long term for the Saints than making him the highest paid player in the history of overpaid players.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Same management company that represented Drew. We know how that worked out

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Just my opinion, ya'll are smoking the rope if you even consider trading Jimmy, a proven bad ass Pro Bowl Tight End, for to 1st round unproven players.

He is arguably the best tight end/weapon in the NFL. Everyone has a bad game, even Drew Brees, would you trade Drew for to 1st round picks.

Don't forget the contributions this guy has delivered for this team, don't have short term memory, the good way surpasses the bad as far as Jimmy goes.

This is not even a decision, do what you have to do to keep this guy on the team. He only makes us better period.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

We love Graham and all but he isn't even close to being the best weapon in the NFL. He is an ok TE and a good but not great wr.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Agreed. I've said this for two years. Drew Brees' replacement is likely already playing in the nfl.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

He's a top 2 TE with a mountain of upside. More thank Gronk - way more.

Don't fool yourself, this kid is still learning, growing and maturing.

If he sticks with Sean Payton (which he will) you'll see that development faster!

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Not sure I agree with this unless another Luck/Manning situation occurs.You dont see top end QBs hit FA too often unless there is a question mark over them.I could see a stop gap QB come in via FA to cover a couple of years but not another long term starter.
Im not surs it will be Paytons problem anyway.I can see Brees, Payton both going at the same time, though im sure he will want to leave a good core group behind.

Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Being as fair to the situation as I can, this will boil down to whether Payton/Loomis view this as a business decision or a personal decision.

Personal - Jimmy is a likable, electrifying player. He is a very hard worker that has shown he is a team player... He has unlimited potential and that is what they will value and pay for.

Business - Opinions of Jimmy are all over the place because quite frankly Jimmy is all over the place. 2011 was spectacular but since then he has been up and down. He has been the star on the tree and the ornament on the bottom backside of the tree. He has been inconsistent and should be paid as he has preformed.

If Jimmy doesn't sign the TE FT, the FO is in no hurry. They were in no hurry for Drew and he was the starting QB.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Graham led all TE's in catches, and had 30% more yards than the second guy. How can you say he is not one of the best?
It would not surprise me at all if it came out that he was still battling injuries late in the year

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

How did we EVER win a Super Bowl without Jimmy Graham?

Listening to you guys, it just doesn't seem possible.

I'll take two first-rounders in a heartbeat.

One of the reasons we are not still in it, is because we concentrate too much on Jimmy Graham, when most other TEs in the game can make the catches he does and drops that he does.

We forgot about the deep route because we now have Jimmy Graham, and it has cost us.

Agree or disagree, but that's the way I see it.

Alaska

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

not following the logic here at all
who are you blaming for 'concentrating too much on JG'? Brees? Payton as a play caller? how can it be Graham's fault?
Brees threw 43 times vs Seattle, targetting Graham 6 times. We also ran 26 times. So basically Graham was 8% of our 'concentration'

most TE's do NOT make most of the catches he does, evidenced by him leading all TE's in catches and yards, and ALL players in TD's

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

With all due respect, you reference one game. One of the games where Jimmy was taken out of production by smothering, dedicated cover.

Like I said, agree or disagree, but this is the way I see it.

My logic is that we won the Super Bowl before we had Jimmy Graham and we can win it again, without Jimmy Graham.

Alaska

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

It's a catch-22. Yes, Drew focuses too much on Graham on the whole, but at the same time, I wonder how much of a choice he has sometimes. Poor Colston, and I love the guy to death, but he is just not the player he used to be because of his wrecked knees/ankles/feet. Past him there's Stills, who was a good rookie but still a rookie, Meachem, who is fairly one-dimensional as a reciever, and Moore who was invisible this season which seems to happen about every other year now. It's no wonder we had two running backs catch 70 passes each.

If Colston comes back fully healthy and strong, and we get typical second-year development from Stills I think this is a much better group even without making any acquisitions.

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

now if we were to do a sign and trade involving graham there would be a few conditions

1) a proven starter included with impact skills that has a cap friendly contract for 2 or more years
2) #1 pick - a team that by all odds will stink up the joint the next year
3) the team involved must take a player that is cap heavy for 2 or less years from us
4) prefer an AFC team but at the least outside the division - i do not want to face him after this

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

but in the other games he managed 86 ctaches and 16 TD's, which isn't exactly a bad thing either

Re: Loomis: Saints will franchise Graham as a tight end if no long-term deal
 

Would the Saints be allowed to make conditions, wouldn't they lose him to whoever offers him more money and the Saints two picks? For example, If the Seahawks or the Panthers came a'callin, would the Saints have any leverage to negotiate?

I'm not sure how that process works.