Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

The only player I can think of that had as much success elsewhere as they did here was Jonathan Goodwin, and maybe Reggie Bush.

And it could be said that at 10 million, Bush didn't exactly set the world on fire in Miami, and they dumped him after 2 seasons.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Brady 15m
Brees 18m

3m delta

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

He disappeared against good teams. He can't get separation at the line. He can't block, or doesn't want to. He's had alligator arms since September.

I'm sure he's worth something. Probably more than Gronk. But Wes Welker had a better year.

I'm starting to get tired of individual performers in team activities believing their hype. I'm half expecting JG to start saying he's his own hero...

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I used to think that too, but looking at his game logs, he was only shut down against New England, St Louis and Seattle.

In 14 of 18 games, many against good teams, he showed up just fine.

Jimmy Graham Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

It's not about stats ... When we needed a score in Seattle he was absent all game. And to think that he disappeared against the Pats and Hawks is ironic. Both had elite corners , only Elite Recivers beat elite corners which further justifies why he shouldn't be paid as an elite Reciver. As he wasn't able to muster up more than 2 or 3 catches in those entire games !

Let him walk ... He's nothing we can't recreate and dare I say Brees was worlds better before throwing to Graham. More than Half of his Picks happen when targeting Graham.

Graham is a special guy I get it , he's my favorite player but he's only going to be that good if he has an elite QB throwing to him. Let him go on and learn that lesson Meachem did. By the time he comes to his senses well have another version that might even be able to block and create separation.

Drew makes our Recivers good. He throws them open , they are never wide open.

I'd gladly take 2 1st round picks ...

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

+1. No shame in having a bad day against any of those defensive minded teams. It happens..

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

You contradict your self a good bit and as far as attendance at games.

None of these guys are elite.
When Cleveland needed a TD against Green bay, Josh Gordon was absent.
When Pittsburgh needed a score against Baltimore, Antonio Brown was absent.
When Detroit needed score against Tampa Bay, Calvin Johnson was absent.
When Houston needed a score in 14 games, Andre' Johnson was absent.
When Philly needed a TD against Dallas, DeSean Jackson was absent.

Comparing stats has a lot fewer holes than your logic.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Yeah but jimmy isn't drawing the oppositions best corner in route to putting up those stats ,

The guys you mentioned are getting it from the gate , and the hole in your logic is none of those guys have a Drew Brees throwing to them either so they probably would've shown up had they had a decent QB on their side.

If he wants elite WR money he ought to be an elite WR ... Where's the misstep in that logic ?

Both times he drew #1 corners attention he was a dud ... Checkmate

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

So every team's #1 corner could stop him, but the team chooses not to? Why do you think they'd chose to allow Graham to keep scoring against them if they could stop him?

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Perhaps you need an interpreter, I never mentioned QBs or Drew brees.

You do not play much Chess do you?
He drew the best CBs when the opponent had top CBs.
Talib
Chancelor/Thomas
Ogletree

The top tier WRs that I listed do not always dray the best CBs either, they get a variety just like Jimmy does.

Andre' Johnson drew coverage from 6 defenders against Indi, and 8 defenders against Jax. All elite WRs were kept off the boards at one time or another. Graham still put up more TDs than any other player that wasn't a QB in the entire NFL in 2013.

If Jimmy isn't drawing their best, who is? Lance Moore? Or do opponents not try anf put their best against our best?:bng:

Yahtzee!

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Because letting stills and Colston run free would be even worse for them ...

Are you telling me he's getting corners from the jump ? Lol he put those digits up against linebackers ...

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Put him at wideout ... Those astronomical numbers would be halved ....

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Do you bother to look up what you are saying? At all.... or do you just rationalize what you think with incorrect statements?

I looked at two games
Against the Jets:
Chromartie
Milner
Allen
Jarret

SF49
Whitner
Rogers
Brown
Brock


I suppose Talib is a CB/ILB for the Patriots?

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Like this?
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c191...ox/Graham1.png

He plays at wide out... why in the heck do you think there is all this TE/WR discussion?

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

As long as Jerry Jones is alive there's a chance. :dunce:

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Many times the Saints try to get Graham lined up against corners. He's too big for them to cover. That's why they usually cover him with linebackers and put a safety over the top most of the time. He's too big for most D-backs and too fast for most linebackers.

A few teams have the personnel to shut him down, but not many.

But I do think you're on to something when you say Colston would run free. In the New England game somebody else should've stepped up since Graham took their best CB. Toon blew it a couple of time. And in the Seattle playoff game, the attention Graham was getting was one of the reasons that Colston had the best game of any receiver last year in Seattle.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Jimmy does fine and puts up numbers on LB's and corners both. There is nothing wrong with his ability other than maybe being a little injury prone due to the way he plays.
I think all this talk about trading him is just posturing by the team to try and get a deal done because they know he wants to be in New Orleans. I don't think the team is that serious about trading him
That being said I think a trade WOULD be best for both parties. JG gets his money and we get two 1st round picks and save enough money to sign some immediate impact FA's. I think this scenario is best for the team.
Lets not try and convince ourselves that he is not an elite player just so its easier to part with him. Whoever gets him will get their moneys worth. Unfortunately we just don't have the luxury of tying up that kind of money in another player.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

A lot have trades we have made of high profile players have made Loomis look like a genius. More often than not the player goes on to get injured or their play significantly drops. Look at Brown and Fujita. There are several more that I cannot recall right now but more often than not we get the better end of the deal. I trust the FO to get it done in a manner that will be best for the team.
Meach and Porter are two more.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I agree.

I just don't see how the team can afford him. We're only 8 million under the cap now (before Graham's signing) We still have to Streif, De La Puente, Bush, Haralson, or their replacements and our draft picks and more.

I know it's a long shot that another team trades two firsts but it's fun to imagine packaging two firsts and trading up and possibly getting one of the studs early in the first round two years in a row.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

getting coverage from corners occasionally and every single snap are two different things ... Don't twist what I said , if he wants elite WR money he better show up like one

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I'd prefer the saints trade their first round pick and Graham for Houston's two first rounders next two years and a additional pick. Given the stakes for this draft it is highly worth it.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I'm not trying to twist what you said. Most corners in the league are too small to cover him. Have you seen Brent Grimes try to cover Graham? It's almost funny to watch.



If the other team thinks they can cover him with a corner, they'd put a corner on him. He's not covered by corners every play because most can't cover him.

8th in receiving yards and 1st in TDs since his rookie season.

How much more does he need to do to "show up"?

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

exactly

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I'm not even on the fence. We have to strengthen the OL. It is the apex of our problems. When we had a great OL we won the SB.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Agree 100%, although signing Graham is no excuse for not improving our O-line. They can both be done.

Not a single player on the 2009 O-line cost us a fortune to acquire. They were all mid-rounders and mid-tier free agents. Stinchomb was probably the costliest as a 2nd rounder.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Pay the man! Two years ago in the SF play off game, he caught what should have iced the game away. He's a big time receiver and should get paid. Not the top pay but close to it.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

There are too many receivers in this years draft to sign Jimmy to a huge contract. Give him Gonzo money and if he's not happy work out a deal to sign and trade him. No team is going to be dumb enough to give up two firsts. Just because someone caught a ball two years ago that COULD have iced the SF game. We would have still had to go on to beat the Giants anyway. We can get a receiver in this years draft that is just as useful with minimal investment.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Mickey is working his magic.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Do you know what the odds are of finding a rookie receiver in the draft that could duplicate what jimmy gives us now?
There may not be a single one.

And we would have destroyed the giants in the Superdome,

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Just as well all the "coulda, woulda, shoulda's" didn't happen. The Saints beat SF, the Giants and win the Super Bowl. Bounty Gate would have been twice the circus it was and I don't doubt for a minute that Roger would have stripped us the Lombardi and put us on double secret probation!

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

The problem with all the trade ideas...

1. Someone has to go after Graham.

2. Agree to the trade.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

I Agee we would have destroyed the Giants, my point is that nothing is guaranteed. Maybe we couldn't find a player with Grahams skill set but we can find quality players that we could sign at a rookie salary that would help our cap in future years. I think two draft picks for Graham is a no brainer.

Re: Saints could lose Jimmy Graham with non-exclusive tag
 

Josh Hill showed signs in the playoffs. I think he is capable of filling in Graham's spot while we get a receiver to line up alongside Colston. Also, Smith may not be a panther, Desean might not be an eagle. Those are two good receivers to sign. If the receivers are not good enough in this draft it can't hurt to get someone proven that could give us a good one year run ala a player I don't want to name due to some controversy.