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WillSaints81

04-15-2014 10:25 PM

Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

for their number 2 pick? Then we thought because rams received that pick via trade that they couldnt trade that pick. Now I find out rams are shopping that pick.

WillSaints81

04-16-2014 01:46 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Not exactly trade but it was speculation of what if he could be traded to the rams.

hagan714

04-16-2014 02:32 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

HE AINT SIGNED YET :)

lee909

04-16-2014 02:40 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

He still wont be traded. Who in there right mindvwould trade the number 2&12 pick for Graham? .
The Rams could take two of the best young talents for l half they would pay Graham a year.
No way the put a offer sheet in when the will be full of big offers if the Texans take anyone but Clowney first

Jamessr

04-16-2014 06:30 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Highly unlikely

Seer1

04-16-2014 07:31 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

No?

Danno

04-16-2014 08:37 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 (Post 588731)

for their number 2 pick? Then we thought because rams received that pick via trade that they couldnt trade that pick. Now I find out rams are shopping that pick.

I think you're confusing two issues.

If we didn't match a franchise tag offer sheet, we couldn't get their 2nd pick, only their own picks, not acquired picks. We would get the #12 this year, and their 1st round pick next year whatever that may be.

Now a straight trade wouldn't work because we'd have to play sign and trade, and there's no way we eat what will be an enormous amount of signing bonus.

The trade, all things considered, is virtually impossible.

lee909

04-16-2014 09:17 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

In regards to receiving two picks in compensation I think teams should get both picks if a team has them. If a teams doesn't they should get the option of using the second pick like a compensatory pick at the end of the first round or choose to wait till the year after and take the teams pick.

I also think compensatory picks need looked at as I do not like the way some teams refuse to pay players to pick up additional picks because they either got themselves in a cap bind or just refuse to pay market value. Everyteam has the same cap and if you cannot manage it you should not get help. Teams should be limited to one comp pick, this should be there best pick.

TheOak

04-16-2014 09:46 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

You have multiple separate items confused into one.

lee909

04-16-2014 09:52 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

I know the difference.
Maybe have not explained it properly though. Ill retype it later. My point is that I get we would received 2 of the Rams number one picks (2014/15) pick if the made Graham a offer we didn't match. What im saying is that the team receiving the picks should be able to choose to use the second oick (2015) at the end of the 2014 draft as they are the team loosing talent.

The second part is just my thoughts on compensatory picks in the draft. I do not like the way some teams play it to get multiple additional picks in rounds 3/4/5.

Danno

04-16-2014 10:13 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 588779)

I think you're confused by Oak's confusion.

I think Oak is stating that the OP is confusing several items, unless I am also confused.

lee909

04-16-2014 10:21 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Well in now really confused.
Its been a long week, the sooner the Easter Weekend kicks in the better

TheOak

04-16-2014 11:39 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 588781)

Well in now really confused.
Its been a long week, the sooner the Easter Weekend kicks in the better

I was referencing the OP.

Earlier in the year there was some speculation that the rams might be interested in Jimmy, if I recall. Before Jimmy was tagged.

Somehow the 2x First round picks as compensation was turned into 1 second round pick as trade.

The 2 First round Compensation picks have to be original draft picks.

Will is upset the Rams are shopping a 2nd round pick that the Rams can shop as they please.

:confused:

saintfan

04-16-2014 11:47 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Vinney - SO confused - YouTube

SaintFanInATLHELL

04-16-2014 02:36 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 588786)

I was referencing the OP.

Earlier in the year there was some speculation that the rams might be interested in Jimmy, if I recall. Before Jimmy was tagged.

OK.

Quote:

Somehow the 2x First round picks as compensation was turned into 1 second round pick as trade.

Um, that's not how I read it. I'm not trying to muddy the waters any more than they already are...

Quote:

The 2 First round Compensation picks have to be original draft picks.

That is absolutely correct. The Rams original 1st round pick this year is #12. So as stated before the only picks that could be given in compensation are the Rams' original 2014 pick, #12, and their first round 2015 pick.

But to reiterate, this is only for compensation if the Rams were to sign JG to an offer sheet and the Saints declined to match it.

Quote:

Will is upset the Rams are shopping a 2nd round pick that the Rams can shop as they please.

Now this is one of the items I wanted to clear up. The Rams have another 2014 1st round draft pick. It is the #2 pick. It is the pick of the Washington Redskins that was traded as part of the package to draft RG3 in 2012.

So the Rams are not shopping a 2nd round pick. They are shopping their 1st round pick #2.

Since this isn't an original draft pick for the team, it cannot be a part of any compensation package for signing JG to an offer.

The second item I wanted to address is the thinking that the Saints really have a way that they can trade JG at this point. They cannot. JG is not under contract. Because of the franchise tag, the Saints retain the right of matching an offer. But since JG does not have a contract with the team at this time, the Saints have no ability to trade JG. JG is a franchised free agent. He is a free agent. I say again, he is a free agent. But with the tag, it'll cost any team two original draft picks to sign him. And that's only if the Saints then decline to match.

Of course I think the point is just about as moot as the discussion two years ago with the crazy idea that Brees and the Saints were somehow not going to come to an agreement.

Several months ago I gave the timeline. We're right on schedule. Next up is the end of this week with the deadline for filing a grievance on the tag to have JG upgraded to WR. It will happen. JG should fire Jimmy Sexton, his agent, if it doesn't. It means nothing.

Next will be the ruling. JG will most likely retain the TE tag. One way or the other this means a bit more because whoever wins will have a bit more negotiating leverage.

You can then put it on snooze during OTAs. JG will not be there. He'll take his vacation, head to Miami and work out most likely.

Wake up about July 10th for the upcoming July 15th deadline for signing the tender. JG will do that. Jimmy Sexton and Mickey Loomis should be ironing out the final details about this time.

Third week of July, a big signing will be announced just in time for training camp.

I said it several months ago. I reiterate it now. It's going to play out exactly as specified.

SFIAH

ScottF

04-16-2014 03:54 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

All quite confusing.

I think we can safely end it
by saying we have JG for this year, so have no reason to trade him for a #12 pick, especially when we would get two # 1's if some insane team signed him to an offer sheet.

No need to waste brain cells on speculation, especially if the 'desired' result doesn't benefit the team

SaintFanInATLHELL

04-16-2014 04:24 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottF (Post 588820)

All quite confusing.

Not really.

Quote:

I think we can safely end it
by saying we have JG for this year, so have no reason to trade him for a #12 pick, especially when we would get two # 1's if some insane team signed him to an offer sheet.

Again, we cannot trade a player that is not under contract. JG is currently a free agent. We cannot get a #12, a #2, a 2015 1st round, or anything else for that player at this time. JG is at this moment not at Saint. He is currently an NFL player without a team.

Quote:

No need to waste brain cells on speculation, especially if the 'desired' result doesn't benefit the team

Agreed. The argument is moot precisely because no one is insane enough to give up 2 #1 original draft picks for JG (or frankly any other NFL player).

SFIAH

ScottF

04-16-2014 04:33 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 588825)

Not really.

Again, we cannot trade a player that is not under contract. JG is currently a free agent. We cannot get a #12, a #2, a 2015 1st round, or anything else for that player at this time. JG is at this moment not at Saint. He is currently an NFL player without a team.

Agreed. The argument is moot precisely because no one is insane enough to give up 2 #1 original draft picks for JG (or frankly any other NFL player).

SFIAH

I am not an expert on the franchise tag, but I do know that we own his rights. JG has a one year $7.04 million contract with the us for 2014.

PS-- wth is with this weather?? 27 this morning in ATL!!

SaintFanInATLHELL

04-16-2014 04:45 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottF (Post 588830)

I am not an expert on the franchise tag, but I do know that we own his rights. JG has a one year $7.04 million contract with the us for 2014.

No. He has a $7.04 million franchise tender. It's not a contract until he signs it.
It's a non exclusive franchise tag. This gives JG the opportunity to sign with any team under any terms. It's a restricted form of free agency. But it is still free agency.

In order to trade JG (idle speculation people, not reality) the Saints would have to first sign him to a contract. The team would then be on the hook for any guaranteed money on that contract even after the trade occurs. That's just as about as insane as any other team giving up 2 1st round picks.

Quote:

PS-- wth is with this weather?? 27 this morning in ATL!!

It's nuts. 80 degrees one day, 30 degrees the next.

SFIAH

WillSaints81

04-17-2014 12:05 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Oh okay, I see now(brainbubble).

But maybe we could still trade up for their pick for our first and another of our 8 picks?

TheOak

04-17-2014 04:30 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 588813)

OK.

Um, that's not how I read it. I'm not trying to muddy the waters any more than they already are...

That is absolutely correct. The Rams original 1st round pick this year is #12. So as stated before the only picks that could be given in compensation are the Rams' original 2014 pick, #12, and their first round 2015 pick.

But to reiterate, this is only for compensation if the Rams were to sign JG to an offer sheet and the Saints declined to match it.

Now this is one of the items I wanted to clear up. The Rams have another 2014 1st round draft pick. It is the #2 pick. It is the pick of the Washington Redskins that was traded as part of the package to draft RG3 in 2012.

So the Rams are not shopping a 2nd round pick. They are shopping their 1st round pick #2.

Since this isn't an original draft pick for the team, it cannot be a part of any compensation package for signing JG to an offer.

The second item I wanted to address is the thinking that the Saints really have a way that they can trade JG at this point. They cannot. JG is not under contract. Because of the franchise tag, the Saints retain the right of matching an offer. But since JG does not have a contract with the team at this time, the Saints have no ability to trade JG. JG is a franchised free agent. He is a free agent. I say again, he is a free agent. But with the tag, it'll cost any team two original draft picks to sign him. And that's only if the Saints then decline to match.

Of course I think the point is just about as moot as the discussion two years ago with the crazy idea that Brees and the Saints were somehow not going to come to an agreement.

Several months ago I gave the timeline. We're right on schedule. Next up is the end of this week with the deadline for filing a grievance on the tag to have JG upgraded to WR. It will happen. JG should fire Jimmy Sexton, his agent, if it doesn't. It means nothing.

Next will be the ruling. JG will most likely retain the TE tag. One way or the other this means a bit more because whoever wins will have a bit more negotiating leverage.

You can then put it on snooze during OTAs. JG will not be there. He'll take his vacation, head to Miami and work out most likely.

Wake up about July 10th for the upcoming July 15th deadline for signing the tender. JG will do that. Jimmy Sexton and Mickey Loomis should be ironing out the final details about this time.

Third week of July, a big signing will be announced just in time for training camp.

I said it several months ago. I reiterate it now. It's going to play out exactly as specified.

SFIAH

Again read the OP, and you'll see I was interpreting his post, if you read it you'll see his reference to a 2nd round pick. I am fully aware of the options and steps concerning Graham, I have pages and pages here where I have outlined how the CBA governs it ~ ad nauseam. Just search for threads titled "trade Graham"

SaintFanInATLHELL

04-17-2014 10:40 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 588864)

Again read the OP, and you'll see I was interpreting his post, if you read it you'll see his reference to a 2nd round pick.

I did. He is referring to 2014, rd 1, #2. Not a rd 2 pick.

Quote:

I am fully aware of the options and steps concerning Graham, I have pages and pages here where I have outlined how the CBA governs it ~ ad nauseam. Just search for threads titled "trade Graham"

I'm fully aware you are up to speed. The rest of it was simply reiteration.

SFIAH

saintsfan403

04-17-2014 11:13 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

I know it's a boring offseason, but is this the best we can do?

TheOak

04-17-2014 11:33 AM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 588901)

I did. He is referring to 2014, rd 1, #2. Not a rd 2 pick.

The OP is unclear; if so, they received from Washington and is ineligible as a compensation pick for Graham but is a pick they can freely do as they wish with....

The more we try to understand and explain of this thread the more convoluted it becomes.

SaintFanInATLHELL

04-17-2014 12:09 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 588911)

The OP is unclear;

It wasn't crystal I admit. I keyed on the fact that the OP called it the 'number 2' pick not the 'round 2' pick. And the specific reference about it being a pick that was traded.

Quote:

if so, they received from Washington and is ineligible as a compensation pick

Correct as usual.

Quote:

for Graham but is a pick they can freely do as they wish with....

and again so.

Quote:

The more we try to understand and explain of this thread the more convoluted it becomes.

It's pretty clear to you and I as far as I can see. Compensation picks have to be ORIGINAL first round picks. The Rams original pick is the Rd 1, #12 pick for 2014.

I think it's just frustration that the rules do not allow for any draft pick to be used as compensation.

Saintsfan403, I like boring offseasons. No drama means that we can expect quite a bit of production come the regular season. Would you really like to be a SF fan right now for example? I think not.

SFIAH

Seer1

04-17-2014 12:36 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Has this thread set the record for the longest, foggiest thread of all time yet?

Rugby Saint II

04-18-2014 12:35 PM

Re: Remember when we thought Graham could be traded to the rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 588779)

Yeah, I'm not digging the way the compensatory picks are handed out. It flat out opens the door for favoritism.

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