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Danno 04-27-2014 09:52 AM

Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
...
So, what exactly is a ZBS? It’s actually exactly what it sounds like. Think defensive coverages. Where man (or "power") blocking is simply finding your assignment and taking him out of the play, a ZBS calls on its offensive linemen to cover an area and eliminate players coming into that area. The ZBS slightly abandons size and strength in lieu of quickness and lateral movement. There is more technique and deception involved in a ZBS.

For starters, double teams are actually favorable in ZBS. The backside defensive end (or the "jack" in most 3-4 schemes) is left to run free into the backfield, while the line slides towards the side they’re rushing. A player may also perform a "reach block" in which he steps 45 degrees at the snap before attempting to step inside of a defender’s leg and engaging him. This is also called a "shield block," since it eliminates a defender’s ability to read the play.

Ingram, of course, hails from Alabama, who famously run the best ZBS in the country. Other running backs out of ‘Bama include Eddie Lacy of Green Bay and, infamously, Trent Richardson, drafted in the first round by Cleveland before being traded for a first round pick to Indianapolis. Green Bay runs a ZBS, Cleveland and Indianapolis don’t. The comparative success of Lacy and Richardson should speak for itself in terms of which works better for Alabama products.

To know if it’s man or zone blocking at the snap, watch the first step. If their hips immediately open to the strong side, it will be ZBS. If their first step is down the field to engage someone, it’s man to man.

Asking a running back to switch to running in a man scheme from a zone one is like asking Rob Ryan to coach the offense for a season. It requires an entirely different skill set for an RB to run through a line that is creating holes through physicality rather than through coordination. This is where Ingram suffered. It’s admirable that Payton has taken such large strides to benefit his player’s strengths, especially since the transition from man blocking to zone is relatively easy for an offensive lineman.

Rest of a really really good article from CanalStreetChronicles...
Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, New Orleans Saints Offense - Canal Street Chronicles

Utah_Saint 04-27-2014 10:07 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
I thought that I read on here that we abandoned the ZBS at some point in the season and run game got better.

Danno 04-27-2014 10:19 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 589932)
I thought that I read on here that we abandoned the ZBS at some point in the season and run game got better.

According to the article, we just got better at it as the season went on, using both. The Philly game was our best ZBS game of the season (ignoring the Dallas scrimmage).

I'm curious to know which Centers in the draft come from ZBS schemes?

hagan714 04-27-2014 10:41 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Ingram has his issue but the pale in comparison to the system. always said it was more the system to blame than the player.

plus if he could catch the ball better it would help out. thats my #1 knock on him besides the injury bug. Ingram is in and 8 in the box and run blitz is the defensive call.

NonieT 04-27-2014 10:57 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 589931)
...
So, what exactly is a ZBS? It’s actually exactly what it sounds like. Think defensive coverages. Where man (or "power") blocking is simply finding your assignment and taking him out of the play, a ZBS calls on its offensive linemen to cover an area and eliminate players coming into that area. The ZBS slightly abandons size and strength in lieu of quickness and lateral movement. There is more technique and deception involved in a ZBS.

For starters, double teams are actually favorable in ZBS. The backside defensive end (or the "jack" in most 3-4 schemes) is left to run free into the backfield, while the line slides towards the side they’re rushing. A player may also perform a "reach block" in which he steps 45 degrees at the snap before attempting to step inside of a defender’s leg and engaging him. This is also called a "shield block," since it eliminates a defender’s ability to read the play.

Ingram, of course, hails from Alabama, who famously run the best ZBS in the country. Other running backs out of ‘Bama include Eddie Lacy of Green Bay and, infamously, Trent Richardson, drafted in the first round by Cleveland before being traded for a first round pick to Indianapolis. Green Bay runs a ZBS, Cleveland and Indianapolis don’t. The comparative success of Lacy and Richardson should speak for itself in terms of which works better for Alabama products.

To know if it’s man or zone blocking at the snap, watch the first step. If their hips immediately open to the strong side, it will be ZBS. If their first step is down the field to engage someone, it’s man to man.

Asking a running back to switch to running in a man scheme from a zone one is like asking Rob Ryan to coach the offense for a season. It requires an entirely different skill set for an RB to run through a line that is creating holes through physicality rather than through coordination. This is where Ingram suffered. It’s admirable that Payton has taken such large strides to benefit his player’s strengths, especially since the transition from man blocking to zone is relatively easy for an offensive lineman.

Rest of a really really good article from CanalStreetChronicles...
Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, New Orleans Saints Offense - Canal Street Chronicles

Did you read the comments? Some of the posters asked questions and the person who wrote the article answers them Very informative. He answered a couple of mine.

Danno 04-27-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NonieT (Post 589937)
Did you read the comments? Some of the posters asked questions and the person who wrote the article answers them Very informative. He answered a couple of mine.

No I didn't, but I will now. Thanks

Seer1 04-27-2014 11:23 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Is is, did it benefit Drew? I'm not convinced on that part.

jeanpierre 04-27-2014 11:26 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
So Alabama-alum running backs are only productive in zone blocking schemes?!?

What happened when the Alabama-alum running back went from Cleveland to Indy?!? if they're similar systems, why did he struggle to transition/produce in Indy?!?

Seer1 04-27-2014 11:31 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 589940)
So Alabama-alum running backs are only productive in zone blocking schemes?!?

What happened when the Alabama-alum running back went from Cleveland to Indy?!? if they're similar systems, why did he struggle to transition/produce in Indy?!?

Makes me wonder if it's just hard for some to play when carrying that many bags of cash around with them. There was a reason Cleveland let him go...

Danno 04-27-2014 11:32 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 589940)
So Alabama-alum running backs are only productive in zone blocking schemes?!?

What happened when the Alabama-alum running back went from Cleveland to Indy?!? if they're similar systems, why did he struggle to transition/produce in Indy?!?

As he stated, both Cleveland and Indy do not run ZBS.

The only RB from Bama that went to a ZBS was Eddie Lacy, who has looked very good.

In fact, I would have guessed the worst of the Bama 3 would have been Lacy, then Ingram with Richardson being the cream of the crop. I got it exactly backwards, so far.

Danno 04-27-2014 11:34 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seer1 (Post 589939)
Is is, did it benefit Drew? I'm not convinced on that part.

ZBS is a run blocking scheme. Pass blocking is a different animal.

Crusader 04-27-2014 11:52 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 589944)
ZBS is a run blocking scheme. Pass blocking is a different animal.

Well zone-blocking and slide protection can be very much alike, especially the inside zone where often times you take more of a lateral step and then work up the field compared to an outside zone where you open your hips more and kinda run to the playside.

Zone can also be fantastic to use for play action and sprint out passes and bootleg because you can get the whole Defence flowing the wrong way.

dizzle88 04-27-2014 05:20 PM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusader (Post 589950)

Zone can also be fantastic to use for play action and sprint out passes and bootleg because you can get the whole Defence flowing the wrong way.

Which is why matt schaub was so effective on play action for the texans, their zone blocking scheme in the run game set up the play action nicely and schaub would get tons of time to survey the field

Euphoria 04-27-2014 05:41 PM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
I don't care what system you use...

IF YOU DON'T EXECUTE - YOU WON'T SUCCEED.

Seer1 04-27-2014 07:27 PM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 589984)
I don't care what system you use...

IF YOU DON'T EXECUTE - YOU WON'T SUCCEED.

If you don't have the players to execute, you still won't succeed.

TheOak 04-27-2014 10:39 PM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
I didn't buy the line last week and I still don't. The authors reasoning behind the Saints switching to a ZBS because of Ingram doesn't hold water.

The switch happened in a year we got a new line coach..... Not in the year we picked up Ingram.

I don't see Sean Payton changing how we block as a whole for the RB with the second most carries by a long shot.

All the RBs ran better at the end of the season.

A hole between G&T is a hole, a RB doesn't care how it was made.

The articles authors logic is a reach that completely ignores a lot of issues that make his argument invalid.

Danno 04-28-2014 07:59 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 590020)
I didn't buy the line last week and I still don't. The authors reasoning behind the Saints switching to a ZBS because of Ingram doesn't hold water.

The switch happened in a year we got a new line coach..... Not in the year we picked up Ingram.

I don't see Sean Payton changing how we block as a whole for the RB with the second most carries by a long shot.

All the RBs ran better at the end of the season.

A hole between G&T is a hole, a RB doesn't care how it was made.

The articles authors logic is a reach that completely ignores a lot of issues that make his argument invalid.

I thought it was a very good explanation of the ZBS but you're right. Just because its something Ingram has had success running behind before doesn't mean we switched our system just for him.

And like you said, all of our RB's struggled at first, or I should say all of our linemen struggled at first, but the O-line improvement toward the end of the season was obvious.

Good read, weak correlation.

TheOak 04-28-2014 08:41 AM

Re: Conversion From Man to Zone Blocking Benefits Mark Ingram, Saints Offense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 590047)
I thought it was a very good explanation of the ZBS but you're right. Just because its something Ingram has had success running behind before doesn't mean we switched our system just for him.



And like you said, all of our RB's struggled at first, or I should say all of our linemen struggled at first, but the O-line improvement toward the end of the season was obvious.



Good read, weak correlation.


I loved the breakdown of the ZBS, he did do a great job on that.

At the beginning of the year our RBs were getting tackled 1-2 yards behind the Line of scrimmage, whether that was the lines fault or the RBs fault it was consistent between our running plays.

After the BYE week things started clicking for either the o-line or RBs and we ran better the last 1/2 of the season.

One of the glaring items that shines a light on the lack of correlation is that if a ZBS makes Ingram run better he should have ran better than everyone else early in the season. Which he didn't.

Any RB will tell you, if a 2 foot hole is made for him to run through, whether the T/G both crisscrossed or they both blocked forward down field... A hole is a hole.

I feel like in rambling now lol so I'll stop. I'm on some heavy duty pain killers.

I think the correlations between ZBS, Alabama players, and NFL is somewhat coincidence. Those Bama players are running behind different o-lines and facing different opponents so it's not really an apples to apples comparison.


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