Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

What does he have to apologize for?

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

This wasn't perpetrated by his agent, either. It was all NFLPA driven. Greed had nothing to do with this. It was for clarification of the CBA.

I'm annoyed with all this stupid media stuff saying there's going to be trust issues with SP and JG cuz SP called him a TE, and SP is supposed to be a father figure, these guys are just blowing stupid things out of proportion.
In all honesty all these other unprofessional holdouts need to take a page out of how the Saints and JG have handled this whole situation. They've allowed the NFLPA and NFL do their job and set the market for him and now they will come to terms which will work out to the benefit of both parties. If the arbitration fell in his favor he wouldn't have complained just like nobody has heard him complain yet.
This way nobody feels "screwed over"

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I'm speculating that when he turns 30, he may show signs of slowing down a bit.

I didn't say he's lost a step already, but at age 30 he might.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I think he was saying in 2 years, not now. He was saying if we pay him this year and next under the tag

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Zero chance he takes the tag when he will get paid more on average over the next two years with a reasonable deal. All this same talk was going around when Brees was tagged. Guess what? Loomis and the Saints came to terms with Brees' agent for a deal, while huge at the time, is nothing compared to what pedestrian QB's are and will be receiving since.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

That's the media's job. It's the football equivalent to E! News. Honestly this is one of the reasons the Saints have so little National media coverage. There's no drama to discuss.
I'm in complete agreement.

SFIAH

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

That was my point exactly.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Even at 30 I would think he would still be very close to the fastest 6'5" TE in the league ... and consider that he is still learning the position. He will get better every year.

Consider what other players do in their off days. Graham's two loves are flying and community service. You never hear or see anything about him doing anything else. How many young people have the personal dedication to get a private pilots license? I know what it takes. My late father was a flight instructor. You have to go far and above to get one.

I truly hope that once this is all over most people will understand what happened and appreciate what we have as Saints fans in Jimmy Graham.

:bng:

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

It seems everyone is pushing for about 10mil a year. How can we do this with roughly about 1.5 mil left in cap room?

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Give him a deal that pays him 50 million over 5 years. And, for example, this season he plays for 7.5 million, next season 9 million, the following season 10 million, then 11 million then 12.5 million.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Easily. You give a signing bonus of around $24 million on a six year deal worth $56 million with a base salary of $2.5 million the first year. Base salary will be back loaded over the contract term. That would count $6.5 million ($4M prorated bonus plus base) in year one. His franchise tag was $7.3M. That deal would actually free up $800K in the current year cap to make other moves.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I just hope he finds a way to feed his family for 7+ million a year. Poor fellow.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Not this again.....



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Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

That was great. You should do my taxes bro. I might be a rich man :-)

Im still puzzled how the cap really works and the loop holes to get through them.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Ok, so now it's over. Get a deal done. It will get done.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

My degree is in accounting, but my wife has always done our taxes. I am a business analyst by trade.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I posted a detailed example of a potential JG contract about 3 weeks ago. You can read it here:

http://blackandgold.com/saints/66411...tml#post597157

The cap really isn't that difficult to understand. Bonuses are divided evenly over the life of the contract. Salary is paid yearly. The cap number is the sum of the bonus part and the salary part. Bonus is guaranteed. Salary is not. The remaining bonus becomes "immediately" due if the player is cut.

So to Guido's example. A $24 million signing bonus over 6 years counts $4 million a year against the cap. With a $24 million check in hand, JG would be happy to take a $1 million salary for the first year. So the cap number is $1+$4 million = $5 million. But JG gets a $24 million check when he signs.

Now the cap number the last 3 years of the contract may be $12/$15/$18 million/year because the salary increases to $8/$11/$14 million/year by the end. But then you can renegotiate, cut another bonus check, and spread out the cap number by extending the contract. Or if the player isn't productive simply cut them and eat the remaining bonus money which at that point is a lot less than the cap number with the inflated salary.

Trust me that both sides are motivated to get a long term deal done by next week. JG wants his big contract and big bonus check now, while the Saints want the cap relief of the long term contract.

That's the reason that it'll get done.

SFIAH

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

That is enlightening. I now see why you have your perspective on this situation...

BTW my profession is my moniker "The Professor". College Profs always want to analyze everything. That's why I find it fascinating...

SFIAH

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

The NFL is a $9 billion/year industry that less than 2000 actual employees. On average that's $4.5 million a player. Note that the minimum salary ranges from about $500K to $1 million for rookies to 10+ year vets.

The CBA and the salary cap requires that the money be spent on player salaries.

I understand that the salary is a lot of money. But everyone needs to understand how vast the pool of money that it's being drawn from is.

Given that you cannot really use absolute numbers for comparison. It has to be relative to the scales of comparable employees.

JG is the best TE in the league. He's one of the best receivers in the league regardless of designation. The top TE is current being paid on average $9 million a year. Top receivers (who JG has better numbers than) are being paid over $12 million a year.

So while in absolute numbers the $7 million is a lot, in comparison to similar (actually lesser) production to others in the profession, it's woefully inadequate in terms of relative salary.

Whether it's $8/hr or $7 million/yr, it's unfair if someone is doing superior work to others and getting paid a lot less.

And considering that JG made only $1.2 million last year, which is 1/10 of the of the salary of top guys that he's put up better numbers, to ask that he take a depressed salary relative to his production is a laughable proposition.

If JG were a free agent, there are teams that would pay him $12/million a year in an open market. He wants to be a Saint. He'll most likely take $10/10.5 million a year to do so in a long term contract. That's already a hometown discount.

Frankly to ask him to take even less is just ridiculous.

SFIAH

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Pretty sure he meant in 2 years when he is 30

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

He will never get 12 mil a year now. We could Franchise him and get the next 2 years and just let him go if he wants that much. At the least we could resign him in 2 years for a lot less because of his age.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Well put, jeanpierre.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Very well put sir. That pretty much answers all of my questions.

Now I have a real brain buster for you, ready, why can't the failclown fans stop being jealous douche bags?

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I had already made that assumption. While I finished my "organized" education years ago, I still enjoy learning. I have had some limited use of my accounting training, but the economics, business law and statistics that were all requirements have served me very well as a devoted Saints fan.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

His agent never mentioned anything about $12M. That figure was floated out there because of the NFLPA's interest in pursuing the tag designation battle. That is basically the WR franchise tag amount. Graham's agent isn't an idiot. He knows that figure is totally out of the question. Salary escalation by position is marginal even under ideal conditions for the player in question. There would be no way that the annual rate for the top TE would move from $9M to $12M in one quick jump.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Easy. Wouldn't you be a jealous douchenozzle if you had Matty Skid Britches behind center throwing to Shoddy **** Talker and a cry baby coach all while being annual underachievers?

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

You are quite welcome.
I gave up on this one a long time ago. It's a waste of time to even try...

SFIAH

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Wanting what we have -a ring, a good team, a good coach, great fans is really not a mystery.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Nothing to see here.................move along.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

yawn

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Seriously? A key decision that swings contract negotiations in our favor by several million dollars with one of our very best players is a yawner to you?

This decision was an extremely important one concerning our Saints and Jimmy Graham.

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

not really. I trust in Mickey not only to balance the books but also to keep track of players and how they may effect the books. Yes i went there. I am sure what Jimmy was doing and were he was lining up was talked about through out the course of the season between SP and Mickey. If it was not Mickey was not doing his job.

I really would have been shocked if he won. i expected this out come.

pencil pushers did their job

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

Contrary to reports, suggestions, and/or speculation that Wednesday’s ruling from arbitrator Stephen Burbank re-set the negotiations on a long-term deal between the Saints and tight end Jimmy Graham to square one, a source with knowledge of the discussions tells PFT that the Saints have not reduced or yanked their offer.

The Saints haven’t, and won’t, use the ruling that Graham is a tight end for franchise tag purposes to alter a proposal that would make Graham the highest-paid tight end in NFL history, with a package worth $9.5 million per year.

Saints haven’t reduced offer to Graham | ProFootballTalk

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

So is that what we have on the table?

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

If he still wants more send his a$$ to a dysfunctional 4 win a season team with a total reject at qb. His stats will plummet the media will serenade and crucify him and he will realize that his rise was much more due to Brees and Payton than himself.

Meachem ? Bush ? Let him walk , with 2 first rounders and extra cap room in exchange we can sign Jordan to an extension ( plus the many guys who will soon earn a raise in the very very near future Vaccarro , Stills , Lewis , Bush , Robinson , possible Ingram extension ) oh and did I mention the 2 1st rounders ?

We can just sit back and wait for Winston to come out the draft and trade them for him to be Drews successor.

No one man is above the unit ...

Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator
 

I believe so.
It sounds reasonable to me.