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WhoDat!656 08-04-2014 11:39 PM
Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
We have all read the stats. Brandon Coleman is 6 foot 6, speedy with a catch radius of 34 inches. Nice looking kid with an open and sunny smile who spent his college years helping inner city kids in a Christian ministry. What’s not to love? Heck, I want to elect him President.

He dominated Rutgers football, tying the school record for 20 touchdowns. Projected to go in the mid rounds of the draft until he was injured, he went undrafted. He received interest from the Patriots, Chargers, Rams but landed with the Saints whose history of undrafted free agents making the roster drew him. This is the definition of potential–and an intriguing conundrum.

Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum - Who Dat Dish - A New Orleans Saints Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

Utah_Saint 08-04-2014 11:56 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Gotta question the reasoning when he says that Morgan's a proven veteran.

He's got 10 catches for his entire career. I don't know how "proven" or "veteran" ten catches is.

But in the end, may the best man win.

papz 08-05-2014 07:13 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Brandon Coleman finding rhythm at Saints camp | Saints | The Advocate — Baton Rouge, Louisiana

jeanpierre 08-05-2014 07:15 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Morgan has had what three years to get to the field?

Injuries, OTF BS - Great, great guy, but so is Andy Tanner...

In another year we'll find more WR prospects...

Keep Coleman on the roster and focus the next two years on development...

It doesn't pan out, so be it, but the other kids have had three years...

If you look at where Coleman was, though Rookie Camp, OTAs, and through first week of training camp, the improvement curve shows he wants it and those physical tools are rare - it's a no brainer...

You've seen what you're gonna get with Morgan and Tanner - if anything, do them a solid and find a trading partner that has some depth at offensive line or another prospect that we'd like to have...

Danno 08-05-2014 08:27 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Keeping Coleman on the 53 might be a mistake. He'd easily clear waivers and we can place him on the 53.

He's a tall WR, slow off the line, trouble separating but with good top end speed. As one of the "experts" said, there are virtually no WR's in the league with similar measurables. They just don't do that well in the NFL.

Keeping him means we cut someone like Warren, Sunseri, Hill, Sweeting, Hamm etc...

jeanpierre 08-05-2014 09:48 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602273)
Keeping Coleman on the 53 might be a mistake. He'd easily clear waivers and we can place him on the 53.

He's a tall WR, slow off the line, trouble separating but with good top end speed. As one of the "experts" said, there are virtually no WR's in the league with similar measurables. They just don't do that well in the NFL.
Scouting Report:

Negatives: At his maximum weight for a receiver (any more bulk might dictate a move to tight end) … Will throttle down and observe the action when he is not involved in the play … Has good timed speed, but because of his long stride and inability to stay low in his pads, he can't generate the burst needed to separate on long routes … Lacks plant-and-drive agility, spending too much time rounding his cuts and gathering at the top of the route … Has had ball concentration issues that resulted in several costly fumbles … Does not have the second gear needed to separate and turn a small catch into a big gain … Needs to explode out of his cuts better and this is caused mostly when he fails to drop his route in his patterns … Has large hands, but will sometimes short arm going for the ball in a crowd or double catch...

(He) has a tall frame with long limbs and adequate muscle definition. He added bulk during the off-season and his frame is at maximum growth potential for a receiver without losing any of his burst and quickness. Much like former Green Bay Packer Tyrone Davis and former New Orleans Saint Eddie "Boo" Williams, Colston might eventually fill out more and will then probably have to shift to tight end at the pro level.

(He) is a tough, physical receiver who relished his role as a chain-mover. He has a strong release, but needs to be more consistent generating explosion coming off the line of scrimmage. He is a bit of a long strider, but has the sudden burst to separate after the catch. Despite his excellent timed speed, he does not have good initial quickness, as he needs to build to top speed.

As a route-runner, (he) needs to refine his technique. He rounds his cuts too often and while he shows a good burst after the catch, his long stride makes him appear lazy getting into his routes. In order to be effective, he will need to explode out of his cuts better. He runs mostly slants and underneath routes and needs to recognize movement better.

(He) has the speed to elude, but prefers to power through defenders coming out of his breaks and this resulted in several costly fumbles in 2005 (see Richmond and Northeastern games). He knows how to use his size to wall off defenders and shield the ball. He has large hands and long arms to reach and pluck the ball, but most of his drops are caused by a lack of concentration.

(He) likes the contact working over the middle. He is not afraid to take a hit going over the middle and this attitude, combined with his body growth, could see him more effective as an underneath target at tight end rather than lining up at split end. He has the body control to twist and turn to make the catch in a crowd and shows good flexibility to secure the pass at its high point (just needs better consistency).

At the level he played at, he still struggled when having to go deep and needs to stay lower in his pads and show better hip snap to generate more explosion in his routes. Before...he would try to overpower defenders, but now shows better balance and leg drive. He developed some wiggle to escape initial contact, but when he gathers before cutting, he negates his timed speed.

His frame and aggressiveness would make him an effective blocker, but he will lose concentration at times, keep his arms short and this allows defenders to slip past in backside pursuit. The talent and strength are there to be a good in-line blocker. He just needs to develop better overall consistency.

(He's) an interesting prospect because of his size and timed speed. He needs to show more explosiveness in his burst and develop better consistency. He is prone to mental lapses on the field and while he is a hard worker, he is not regarded as leadership material. He needs to be pushed at times, as he tends to get lazy, but overall, he has been a good program player. Based on his size/speed ratio, if he continues to run well in private workouts, he could sneak into the mid-to-late round draft picture.

Same scouting report, only the above was for Marques Colston...

We should keep this guy...In two years, Colston (or his foot) will be done and we'll have Coleman developed and in place...

zachsaints52 08-05-2014 09:52 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602273)
Keeping Coleman on the 53 might be a mistake. He'd easily clear waivers and we can place him on the 53.

He's a tall WR, slow off the line, trouble separating but with good top end speed. As one of the "experts" said, there are virtually no WR's in the league with similar measurables. They just don't do that well in the NFL.

Keeping him means we cut someone like Warren, Sunseri, Hill, Sweeting, Hamm etc...
I highly doubt he would. And we would cut someone like Hill or Hamm anyways, we wouldn't carry 4 TE's on the roster.

SmashMouth 08-05-2014 10:18 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Sunseri has already made the team. Tanner and Morgan OTOH...

Danno 08-05-2014 10:33 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 602285)
Scouting Report:

Negatives: At his maximum weight for a receiver (any more bulk might dictate a move to tight end) … Will throttle down and observe the action when he is not involved in the play … Has good timed speed, but because of his long stride and inability to stay low in his pads, he can't generate the burst needed to separate on long routes … Lacks plant-and-drive agility, spending too much time rounding his cuts and gathering at the top of the route … Has had ball concentration issues that resulted in several costly fumbles … Does not have the second gear needed to separate and turn a small catch into a big gain … Needs to explode out of his cuts better and this is caused mostly when he fails to drop his route in his patterns … Has large hands, but will sometimes short arm going for the ball in a crowd or double catch...

(He) has a tall frame with long limbs and adequate muscle definition. He added bulk during the off-season and his frame is at maximum growth potential for a receiver without losing any of his burst and quickness. Much like former Green Bay Packer Tyrone Davis and former New Orleans Saint Eddie "Boo" Williams, Colston might eventually fill out more and will then probably have to shift to tight end at the pro level.

(He) is a tough, physical receiver who relished his role as a chain-mover. He has a strong release, but needs to be more consistent generating explosion coming off the line of scrimmage. He is a bit of a long strider, but has the sudden burst to separate after the catch. Despite his excellent timed speed, he does not have good initial quickness, as he needs to build to top speed.

As a route-runner, (he) needs to refine his technique. He rounds his cuts too often and while he shows a good burst after the catch, his long stride makes him appear lazy getting into his routes. In order to be effective, he will need to explode out of his cuts better. He runs mostly slants and underneath routes and needs to recognize movement better.

(He) has the speed to elude, but prefers to power through defenders coming out of his breaks and this resulted in several costly fumbles in 2005 (see Richmond and Northeastern games). He knows how to use his size to wall off defenders and shield the ball. He has large hands and long arms to reach and pluck the ball, but most of his drops are caused by a lack of concentration.

(He) likes the contact working over the middle. He is not afraid to take a hit going over the middle and this attitude, combined with his body growth, could see him more effective as an underneath target at tight end rather than lining up at split end. He has the body control to twist and turn to make the catch in a crowd and shows good flexibility to secure the pass at its high point (just needs better consistency).

At the level he played at, he still struggled when having to go deep and needs to stay lower in his pads and show better hip snap to generate more explosion in his routes. Before...he would try to overpower defenders, but now shows better balance and leg drive. He developed some wiggle to escape initial contact, but when he gathers before cutting, he negates his timed speed.

His frame and aggressiveness would make him an effective blocker, but he will lose concentration at times, keep his arms short and this allows defenders to slip past in backside pursuit. The talent and strength are there to be a good in-line blocker. He just needs to develop better overall consistency.

(He's) an interesting prospect because of his size and timed speed. He needs to show more explosiveness in his burst and develop better consistency. He is prone to mental lapses on the field and while he is a hard worker, he is not regarded as leadership material. He needs to be pushed at times, as he tends to get lazy, but overall, he has been a good program player. Based on his size/speed ratio, if he continues to run well in private workouts, he could sneak into the mid-to-late round draft picture.

Same scouting report, only the above was for Marques Colston...

We should keep this guy...In two years, Colston (or his foot) will be done and we'll have Coleman developed and in place...
But Colston proved the scouting reports wrong IIRC with an excellent 10 yard split at the combine.

My guess is he's cut and resigned to the practice squad. Keep in mind I don't think he plays special teams well at all. That last WR usually needs to play ST's.

dizzle88 08-05-2014 11:02 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
In that scouting report they called colston lazy......

You mean the guy that has 63 career TD's and nearly 9000 yards receiving, yeah of course.......

hagan714 08-05-2014 11:22 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602273)
Keeping Coleman on the 53 might be a mistake. He'd easily clear waivers and we can place him on the 53.

He's a tall WR, slow off the line, trouble separating but with good top end speed. As one of the "experts" said, there are virtually no WR's in the league with similar measurables. They just don't do that well in the NFL.

Keeping him means we cut someone like Warren, Sunseri, Hill, Sweeting, Hamm etc...
Sunseri is looking like odd man out at the safety position right now. it is to early to tell IMO to much camp left to go.

But i am in the it is highly unlikely he clears waivers and even more unlikely we could retain him if he did.

health wise i say he has a leg up on a few WR right now.

now can he continue to improve catching the ball enough to make a statement to make the team?

test one friday night

dizzle88 08-05-2014 11:29 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 602303)
Sunseri is looking like odd man out at the safety position right now. it is to early to tell IMO to much camp left to go.

But i am in the it is highly unlikely he clears waivers and even more unlikely we could retain him if he did.

health wise i say he has a leg up on a few WR right now.

now can he continue to improve catching the ball enough to make a statement to make the team?

test one friday night
Precisely the reason I wish we still had Curtis Johnson as the wide receivers coach, the wonders he worked with devery Henderson on catching the ball was incredible

Danno 08-05-2014 11:37 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 602303)
Sunseri is looking like odd man out at the safety position right now. it is to early to tell IMO to much camp left to go.

But i am in the it is highly unlikely he clears waivers and even more unlikely we could retain him if he did.

health wise i say he has a leg up on a few WR right now.

now can he continue to improve catching the ball enough to make a statement to make the team?

test one friday night
If we keep 6 WR's, we have
Colston
Stills
Cooks
Toon

Then two from this group...
Meachem (has looked good in camp)
Morgan (proven to be talented and fragile)
Jones (having an impressive camp)
Hull (PS candidate, decent camp)
Coleman (a two year project with huge upside)
Tanner (probably his final camp as a Saint)

He has a shot, but as you said its way way too early to predict the bottom of the roster.

hagan714 08-05-2014 11:47 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Toon is still on the fence i bet. he has had good camps before. but has the inside track

as for the rest they have a ton more of camp to go.

zachsaints52 08-05-2014 11:52 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Could you imagine red zone with Colston, Jimmy, Coleman, PT23/Khiry, and Cooks?

jnormand 08-05-2014 12:19 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 602300)
In that scouting report they called colston lazy......

You mean the guy that has 63 career TD's and nearly 9000 yards receiving, yeah of course.......
Its funny to see that now huh? One of the best players in Saints history and a true role model on AND off the field. No drama. Just a worker.

CoreyO 08-05-2014 12:40 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 602317)
Toon is still on the fence i bet. he has had good camps before. but has the inside track

as for the rest they have a ton more of camp to go.
Idk about that i saw a report somewhere of Sean saying its different this year with toon. Its not just a good camp, like the last ones, he is hungry for it.

Danno 08-05-2014 12:46 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Toon has had 1 good camp before. People talk like he's been here 4 or 5 years.

I don't get it. Did the Jets drop really butthurt people that much?

ChrisXVI 08-05-2014 04:32 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602341)
Toon has had 1 good camp before. People talk like he's been here 4 or 5 years.

I don't get it. Did the Jets drop really butthurt people that much?
He's had 3 good training camps now. Yes in his rookie year he got hurt at the end of the preseason but he's had tons of opportunity in 3 years to get a couple of reps if he was any good.

Danno 08-05-2014 04:40 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 602362)
He's had 3 good training camps now. Yes in his rookie year he got hurt at the end of the preseason but he's had tons of opportunity in 3 years to get a couple of reps if he was any good.
2012- Toon hurt his foot before the 1st preseason game and didn't play in any of the pre-season games and was placed on IR before the final 53 was set. Never played in a game, couldn't practice with the team all year. Also Coach Payton was suspended the entire year.

*Correction: He played in the very last preseason game and had 2 catches.
Quote:
New Orleans Saints wide receiver Nick Toon was placed on the injured reserve list ending his season before it even started. Toon had been battling a left foot injury for the entire preseason but he finally played in the Saints’ preseason finale against the Tennessee Titans.

NFL Rumors: New Orleans Saints Wide Receiver Nick Toon Might Need Foot Surgery
2013-He had a good camp last year, good enough to make the team.

2014-He's having a great camp so far (it hasn't even been two weeks yet)

So he's had one good camp so far and has not had "tons of opportunity".

ChrisXVI 08-05-2014 04:47 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602365)
2012- Toon hurt his foot before the 1st preseason game and didn't play in any of the pre-season games and was placed on IR before the final 53 was set. Never played in a game, couldn't practice with the team all year. Also Coach Payton was suspended the entire year.

*Correction: He played in the very last preseason game and had 2 catches.

2013-He had a good camp last year, good enough to make the team.

2014-He's having a great camp so far (it hasn't even been two weeks yet)

So he's had one good camp so far and has not had "tons of opportunity".
He's had plenty of opportunity. If there are still questions about him after this preseason then there are no excuses. Three healthy training camps and actual game tape on him and Stills is ahead of him and hell, even Joe Morgan may be ahead of him on the depth chart. Not good.

Danno 08-05-2014 04:54 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 602370)
He's had plenty of opportunity. If there are still questions about him after this preseason then there are no excuses. Three healthy training camps and actual game tape on him and Stills is ahead of him and hell, even Joe Morgan may be ahead of him on the depth chart. Not good.
Again with the 3 healthy training camps? I give up.

And Stills was in contention for rookie of the year. Not sure how thats relevant to the discussion. That sounds like deflection.

ChrisXVI 08-05-2014 04:57 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602375)
Again with the 3 healthy training camps? I give up.

And Stills was in contention for rookie of the year. Not sure how thats relevant to the discussion. That sounds like deflection.
How many healthy training camps does it take?! Stills was drafted a round later than him and in your words "was in in contention for rookie of the year." Now Toon's battling for a roster spot with guys like Morgan and Coleman... What's his excuse?

rezburna 08-05-2014 04:58 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
I've got high hopes for Nick Toon to turn it around. I was ready to cut him after the Jets game my damn self, but that good size and decent speed that made me like him when we drafted him is starting to show itself again. Health issues and confidence are his only problems. He's got the tools. He just needs the reps. Unfortunately for him though, I think we see the Meachem from our Super Bowl run, another leap in progression by Kenny Stills, and a lot of balls thrown to Brandin Cooks. Not to mention the Colston/Graham combo. Bu we're good for a couple injuries at WR every year anyway.

Danno 08-05-2014 05:03 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 602376)
How many healthy training camps does it take?! Stills was drafted a round later than him and in your words "was in in contention for rookie of the year." Now Toon's battling for a roster spot with guys like Morgan and Coleman... What's his excuse?
You're all over the place. Focus on the topic and quit deflecting.

Toon is having a great camp
Toon did not have 3 healthy training camps
Toon did not "tons of opportunities"
No one is claiming he's better than Stills
Everyone knows he's battling for a roster spot
No one is making any excuses for him
Right now he's probably ahead of Morgan and Coleman

Why the hate, did he sleep with your BFF?

ChrisXVI 08-05-2014 05:11 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 602378)
You're all over the place. Focus on the topic and quit deflecting.

Toon is having a great camp
Toon did not have 3 healthy training camps
Toon did not "tons of opportunities"
No one is claiming he's better than Stills
Everyone knows he's battling for a roster spot
No one is making any excuses for him
Right now he's probably ahead of Morgan and Coleman

Why the hate, did he sleep with your BFF?
Wow... "Did he sleep with your BFF?" That's some incredibly mature smack talk. I'm sure your family will be proud of that.

Rugby Saint II 08-06-2014 08:48 PM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
He could possibly make the squad........if we have one injury at WR his opportunity is there.

billyt81 08-07-2014 03:05 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Interesting similarities between Coleman and Colston. No way to know if Coleman possesses Colstons toughness, hands or ability to grab balls with DBs draped all over him. I watched Coleman's highlights and I saw poor body control and not much aggressiveness. If he had a nasty attitude like Keyshawn Johnson or Michael Irving maybe, but I'm guessing PS at best.

jeanpierre 08-07-2014 07:22 AM
Re: Brandon Coleman, An Intriguing Conundrum
 
Just want to see Coleman get the opportunities; drops don't cut it, but now that he's in a passing system with coaches with extensive technique knowledge, I'd like to see that size, catch radius in action...


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