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Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Here is a little reality check for all fans.
Offensive Line Drew Brees - Protection Armstead 1 Ht, 1 Hu Grubbs 2 Hu Evans 1 Hu Strief 1 Ht, 1 Hu Watson 1 Sk, 1 Hu Run Blocking Watson and Grubs both had a bad day over all Receiving Jimmy Graham Great and bad 13 targets / 10 catches/ 118 yards/ 2 TDs *Note - Some of you need to realize the circumstances surrounding some items. Jimmy Graham had 0 Dropped passes but is credited with allowing 1 Interception. Blame Drew all you want, PFF recognizes that the ball went right through Grahams hands, then caught by Gipson. Just like Cooks is credited with the bobbled pass that was intercepted by Alford. A total of 1 dropped pass all game is a vast improvement over last week. Drew Brees - Went 27/36 for 237 yards and 2 TDs Rushing Ingram had a stellar game - 11 for 83 (7.5 YPC) 1 TD Our ground game is solid - 27 for 174 (6.4YPC) 1 TD (Should be more rushing TDs) Defensive I will get the good out of the way because there is so little Only 4 Missed Tackles this game. Monumental leap. Junior Gallett - 1 Sk, 1 Qb Hit Cam Jordan - 1 QB Ht, 4 QB Hu, 2 Batted Passes Corey White - Lead team in Solo Tackles with 8 (Vaccaro, Lofton, Hicks had 6 a piece) The bad: Jenkins - -2.0 run stop Robinson - 2 penalties, 5 receptions, 38 yards 1 TD Lewis - 5 Rec 64 yards -------------- My comments: On Robinson - Yes everyone played bad, he is the only one that falls into the 'thats the norm' catagory, everyone else has earned some sort of pass on a bad play or even a string of bad plays. Robin is not only stringing bad plays but bad games and bad seasons together. It is cumulative. - For me it isn't his play. When Lewis gives up a reception I dont get the feeling he is completely lost. White doesn't look like he is chasing bubbles. There is no more defense of Robinson. Robinson has looked the same under Williams, as he did Spagnuolo, as he is now under Ryan. There was a brief moment when he cut his dreads that he looked ok but that was a handful of games and is not enough to offset seasons. If the best retort you can muster to defend Patrick Robinson is to briefly go into how everyone else is playing you may want to rethink your strategy. Defensive backfields like offensive lines require some synchronization and they cover for each other at a time of need. With good conscience and no doubt I will say that Patrick Robinson is causing some of the problems for the other players, they are trying to compensate and that is putting them out of position as well. On Graham Jimmy is catching, and breaking tackles. He is doing all of the things people have beat on him about and for that I am very happy. He is a very important piece of our offense. I did notice one thing yesterday... On one of his TDs in the endzone he reached up with both hands and he has stone hands some times. Meaning if you watch closely his catches look like basketball shots that beat the rim a few times before they go in. For me that was a concern but I dismissed it because he caught it... Later a ball goes right through his hands and is INT. Finally... Let some things go so you don't look foolish. 1. Ingram is running well whether you like it or not. He also isnt going to get 72 carries a game so let that go as well. 2. Drew has yet to throw any of his stupid right to a defender interceptions this season. He is being credited with 2 but at best if you are honest he has two 1/2s equaling 1. 3. Most teams take a few weeks into the season to pull their act together. The panicking and 8-8 comments look really foolish. Seattle lost to San Diego, Atlanta lost to Cincinnati, Tampa Bay lost to St Louis, San Francisco lost to Chicago... If you are a fantasy owner you fully understand how the first 2-3 weeks is no indication of the rest of the season. We are 0-2 and have played absolutely inconsistent and sh1tty ball. That said, they are both away games and the grand total of our losses is by 5 points and we are averaging 29 points/game. If you are looking at our offense don't look too hard, at the end of the day defense doesn't win championships, and neither does running or passing. What wins is scoring more than you allow and one of these two squads is preforming historically bad. That is where I would point my finger. I have identified better seasons. Ave/Points per game Scored 2014 - 29 2013 - 25.9 2012 - 28.8 2011 - 34.2 2010 - 24 2009 - 31.9 Ave/points per game allowed 2014 - 31.5 2013 - 19 2012 - 28.4 2011 - 21.2 2010 - 19.2 2009 - 21.3 |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
I am ok where the O is right now there is room for improvement but that D has got to make some ground BIGTIME>
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Great write up Oak!
It doesn't look good so far but we should wait to judge this team until 4 games into the season. I feel 4 games in you should have a clear vision of what every team is capable of. |
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I know people do not like ambiguous grades that aren't linked to imperial data but I have a few Team grades and while some look suspect some are spot the frick on. Offense Overall 4th in NFL +11.2 Passing 14th in NFL -1.4 Pass Blocking 11th in NFL +2.8 Rushing 8th in NFL +1.4 Run Blocking 2nd in NFL +8.8 Penalties 14th in NFL -0.4 Defense Overall 28th in NFL -18.5 Run Def 19th in NFL -1.9 Pass Rush 21st in NFL -2.5 Pass Coverage DFL in NFL -14.5 Penalties 13 in NFL +0.4 Special Teams 1st in NFL +10.0 |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Great stuff Oak.
My 2 cents White-Looks like NB is his spot. He's playing better than everyone expected, and I think he's our highest rated DB on the team Lewis-Disappointing, but as you suggested will likely play better Vaccaro-Is he even on the team? This was supposed to be un upgrade over Harper? Byrd-Did Malcolm Jenkins actually leave? Bush- Where is he? Pass Rush-I just don't see it in the grades. It doesn't even look close to as good as last year. O-Line-I don't understand how some of us can point to it as a weakness. We have a top 10 unit and people still claim we suck. Ingram- The Ingram bashers can suck it. Colston-What happened? He played but not one reception? He must have been hurt, there's no other viable explanation. Anyone got his snap counts? |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Robinson does not "get" the defense, clearly. It's not a question of not being able to cover his guy, I think half the time the problem is he does not know what he is supposed to be doing. Regardless, he needs to NOT be on the field whenever possible. The optimism for him was based in half a season 3 years ago and last preseason. It's no longer enough to ignore his issues. I have to believe this was the last straw for him with the coaches as well.
White is at worst a decent #2 corner, yes ideally he would be the nickel and he is very good in that role, but this is not ideal. We need to be getting SJB groomed to play the outside corner. Honestly the defensive scheme to me is more worrisome than the personnel. Can anybody explain why we have changed to this passive zone defense. It seems like we have taken every single thing that made this defense good last year and said "OK now let's do the exact opposite." It makes no sense. Maybe this is why people said that Ryan isn't that great a DC. I don't have much of a problem with the offense. Yes, they had problems getting it going early on, but that happens on the road. The main problem is we aren't playing smart situational football. We saw some signs of improvement in that aspect at the end of the first half and start of the second, where the defense came up with two stops and the offense 2 TD's. Then both units fell apart at the end, like we expected the Browns to roll over and lie down because we're the Saints dammit and we're supposed to win. Veteran team, should never happen. I still can't get over the fact we had them on their own 6-yard-line. That is going to give me bad dreams all week. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
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Colston Snap Counts - 42 / Targets 0 Pass Rush - We are getting close but no banana. A few comparisons Cam Jordan 2013 QB Hu 50 (9 already this season). Batted passes 4 all 2013 (3 already this season).. He is a 1/2 step from greatness. The sacks and Hits are absent from everyone. Junior needs to get his chit together because as a tandem they drive QBs into each other. I cant help but think their 2013 play was noted by other teams and their QBs are stepping up and releasing quicker to offset. Bush - 5 total snap counts this season Byrd- What is a safeties job? Covering sh1tty CB play. I have to give Byrd/Vaccaro a pass on having to do his job and keep a 3rd eye on who ever Lewis or Robinson are covering. Lewis - He looks about a 1/2 step off his timing. A 1/2 step in this league for a CB is huge and the difference between burnt and INT. White - Hits like a Mack truck. Has a few boneheaded penalties but if he can control things a hair more he will be fine. |
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Even with Robinson on the field we can play man one hell of a lot better than zone. That last pass was Robinson getting lost and found him self on Lewis's man, or Robinson got it right and Lewis didnt cross over to his receiver... Either way, if we were playing man we would have had 1/2 a chance to play the ball and not open up a track meet. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
On the plays where Brees is getting hit, he's holding on the ball too long. He looks pretty indecisive which is leading him to be off target. We've missed on a few key passing plays these past two games. Honestly when people are saying it's the lines fault, I really just don't see it. It's only natural you give a few hurries or a sack here and there, but they've been doing a pretty good job overall.
I agree that it is no longer time to give Robinson anymore free passes(it's probably overdue as is) but the alternative options has been just as bad. He was relieved during the game as the starting corner during the game and was still struggling in the nickel. White and Lewis were still getting beat consistently as well. They're just bad overall. Hopefully we can turn it around. I'm looking forward to our first home game. I think we'll see a dramatic difference from everyone next game. You should make this a weekly thread Oak. Good thread. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
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But that +10.0 doesn't encapsulate the special teams penalty on a missed 44 yard FG that allowed for a chip shot FG. Essentially put 3 points on the board with that. It also doesn't take in to account our 2 kickoff returns did NOT make the 15 yard line. It doesn't take in account the downfield blocking for a punt where Cooks had room to work and he gets nothing. I ain't buying what is being sold with 1st in the NFL on special teams...as I've said on numerous post, without Morstead our spec teams would be hosed. |
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It's been a strange season so far. |
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Drews Time in Pocket stats (rankings are in most time to x) Time to throw 2.78s 7th in the league Time to attempt 2.67s 6th in the league Time to Sack 3.75 6th in the league When he spends 2.5s or less in the pocket his comp% is 71.8, 2.6s or more is 66.7. He is either getting coverage pressure or not seeing the open receiver pressure but either way it isn't our line. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
defensively you half to rip both outside groupings on the defense a new one when they view this tape.
Run defense on the outside has not improved at all. they stunk up the joint. thank God for White. Still the best tackling DB on the team now Armstead got schooled more than once. but remember Kruger is one of the best ALL around DE in the NFL. speed is one thing but quickness and power are another. So going against Jr in camp and practices did little to prepare him for what he was going to face. I really like they way Armstead adjusted as the day went on. hats off to the kid. I like what i saw out him in cleveland. now some time going against Jordan might do him some good. Because we do not have a OLB that plays like that. hint what are missing? message to Rob Ryan : speed aint everything. Now an out and i have to give it. the browns are not the browns of old as we all saw. they have an offensive line that will compete with any one. there defense is hungry, fast and aggressive. so hats off to the browns. it appears they may have just turned the corner and will be right in the mix for a division title this year. The big difference between the two clubs? Browns were the hungrier of the two teams that took to the field. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
The penalties are down from the pre-season:
Pre-season vs Rams 10-104 yds Pre-season vs Titans 10-111 yds Pre-season vs Colts 10-84 yds Pre-season vs Ravens 1-5 yds Regular season Wk 1 vs failclowns 3-27 yds Regular season Wk 2 vs Browns 5-39 yds |
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We have 8 total penalties this season 5th lowest in the league. All 8 accounted for: False Start = 3 - 15 yards Defensive Pass Interference = 2 - 31 yards Defensive Offside = 1 - 5 yards Illegal Use of Hands = 1 - 10 yards Neutral Zone Infraction = 1 - 5 yards By Player: Patrick Robinson = 3/24 -Defensive Holding, Neutral Zone Infraction, Defensive Pass Interference (All against the Browns) Zack Strief = 2/15 - False Start, Illegal Use of Hands Armstead = 2/10 False Start Gallette = 1 Defensive Offsides White = 1/12 Defensive Pass Interferance |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
[QUOTE=Danno;611322]Great stuff Oak.
My 2 cents O-Line-I don't understand how some of us can point to it as a weakness. We have a top 10 unit and people still claim we suck. That has been one the biggest bright spots so far this year. I was worried about our oline and our linebacking core. To be honest, our oline has looked pretty good this year. The've been providing drew with good protection (especially at the left tackle position) and they have been doing a better job of opening running lanes. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
The offensive line looked better and was able to get the win at the line.
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How many 3rd down conversions did Patrick Robinson allow? It was easily over 5
If he knocks one of those down on the last drive, its game over, I'd rather have baptiste at CB than have to watch Robinson for the rest of the year |
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Robinson was thrown at 7 times, he allowed 5 receptions, 1 pass was defended, for a total of 38 yards, including 3 yards of YAC and 1 touchdown. |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
How about the rest of them for our secondary? Any numbers for them?
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Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Corey White
Thrown At 10 Rec 7 Yards 43 Avg 4.3 YAC 23 LG 13 QB rating against 78.3 Kennan Lewis TA 9 Rec 5 Yards 64 Avg 7.1 YAC 32 QB rating against 78 Curtis Lofton TA 4 Rec 2 Yards 14 Avg 3.5 YAC 22 QB rating against 58.3 David Hawthorne TA 3 Rec 2 Yards 11 Avg 3.7 YAC 12 QB rating against 72.9 Jarius Byrd TA 2 Rec 1 Yards 10 Avg 5 QB rating against 64.6 Kenny Vaccaro TA 1 Rec 1 Yards 11 Avg 11 YAC 0 QB rating against 112.5 Raphael Bush TA 1 Rec 1 Yards 13 Avg 13 YAC 2 QB rating against 118.8 Parys Haralson TA 1 Rec 0 QB rating against 39.6 |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Thanks.
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Saints have gone 6-7 their last 13 regular season games
There are some serious issues across the board Talent is there. Is the desire? To many press clippings? Still having a super bowl hang over? you tell me |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Think about this nugget for a bit.
QB ratings throwing against: Robinson 144.3 Lewis 109.1 White 87.3 |
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Also shows our pass rush is not hitting home, we collapse the pocket but allow the QB to escape and he has about 10 seconds to pass before anyone gets there |
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We're 0-2 on the road, we have 6 road games left.
If we go 3-3 in those road games and 8-0 at home, we're right at 11-5, which is where everyone thought we'd be. If we go 7-1 at home (more reasonable) we'll have to go 4-2 in our remaining road games against Dallas, Detroit, Carolina, Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Chicago. to get to 11-5 Obviously we'll have to remove our head from our ass in order to do that, but I can see us beating 4 of those teams. |
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
I think a home game will help with the confidence of this team as it seems to be sorely lacking unlike the pre-season when it appeared they would be world-beaters. Although it was pre-season so theres that. I think we can win out. The Vikings got exposed by a good Patriots team but also without AP. Then we have Dallas on the road. We seem to play relatively well there as far As road games go. Though they always seem to keep in contention Then we have the Bucs who are basically the same team as they have been since 2011 and we play them at home where i believe we have outscored them by like a total of 70 points the last two times they visited. We could go into the bye with a winning record and after that i believe the coaching errors will cease to a minimum. I'd rather be good in November/December/January than now. Hopefully that won't be too late.
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
P Rob is a press guy period....has never played well in space....even in college. Right now the entire secondary looks lost with P Rob being the worst. Let me be clear...I am in no way giving him a pass...none of them deserve one. it's clear that this soft zone coverage and disguises are not working. It seems like the coverage is predicated on pressuring the QB but we aren't getting any so WR are getting free releases and QBS are getting easy throws.
Oh yeah....that last completion was White's fault not P Rob...White jumped the route on Lewis' assignment....P Rob got call for holding... |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Lets hope the "cushion" defense is over with.....
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
White needs to stay exactly where he is, really does a great job at the #3, SBJ will look as bad as Robinson, he is no where near ready.Dixon if anyone got a shot would be the one I went with, he's hungry and aggressive, I like that about him. ILB's are really hurting us, have been for 2 years, Ryan masked them last season but this season he can't, like Hagen said, tapes out. About the only real hope we have is the front 4 getting pressure allowing our secondary to create a few turnovers. A few delayed blitz would help some. Our O-line looks good especially in the ground game. Brees has happy feet and arm strength and accuracy I'm starting to question a little bit.The zip doesn't look as crisp.
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Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
I was a PRob defender, but this last game solved that for me...it's looking towards bad-and-worse.
But if Corey White steps in there and lays turds as well, look straight over to the sideline for "The Dude". |
Re: Week 2 NO/Cle grades (reality check)
Awesome post
Thanks |
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