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My Draft over-reaction

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I thought I might jump into the pit with a thought. Maybe we have so many UDFA's make this team because the players we draft just aren't really all that great? We never draft LB's early. The only one I ...

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Old 09-29-2014, 01:06 PM   #1
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My Draft over-reaction

I thought I might jump into the pit with a thought.

Maybe we have so many UDFA's make this team because the players we draft just aren't really all that great?

We never draft LB's early. The only one I can remember is Tez, and he was a 3rd rounder and very raw. Its always 4th and 5th rounders.

Why do we hate LB's?
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:18 PM   #2
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I thought I might jump into the pit with a thought.

Maybe we have so many UDFA's make this team because the players we draft just aren't really all that great?

We never draft LB's early. The only one I can remember is Tez, and he was a 3rd rounder and very raw. Its always 4th and 5th rounders.

Why do we hate LB's?
We also plugged difficiencies in our LB corp with Safeties. We had two "leaders" on defense in Vilma and Shanle. Vilma was the field general. Shanle stepped up when Scott Fujita left for Cleveland.

We have never replaced those leaders on defense. Like their play or not, our LB's are essentially invisible on the field. I've said since the first game that our defense plays like they are only playing with 10 men on the field, that's because there's a double deficiency somewhere - probably poor d-line and unreliable LB's to plug those holes.

So we FIX the problem with safeties. Everyone trashes Roman Harper, but now it's apparent he was plugging holes as an outside linebacker. We didn't have the foresight to simply name him "OLB" on the roster and make way.

Finally, folks mentioning Malcolm Jenkins with 3 int's for the Iggles. He's able to play a TRUE safety position and let his talent shine at the Eagles because they have competant defensive linemen and talent at LB. At the saints he roamed between safety, CB and LB watching runners blow past the d-line, then past the LB's into the secondary where he has to make the tackles. At the Eagles he can ball hawk!

I've ALWAYS said, draft LB early and often, as much as possible. Great LB's can not only be field general QB's on defense, some are great pass defenders as well as run stoppers. At this point, anything has to be an improvement, but LB may be a great starting point.
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Last edited by Halo; 09-29-2014 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:23 PM   #3
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Maybe we hate LB's because our coach was a frustrated passing quarterback?

Maybe a guy who comes up through the coaching ranks and is laser focused on his QB's and the prolific passing game, maybe that guy is not gonna want to think too hard about how to thwart or stop that prolific passing attack, or the players who will most likely sack him or drive him into the dirt?

I have no idea, but it almost has to be something kinda deep in Payton's psyche.
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:39 PM   #4
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

The sad truth is that I don't think it will change whilst we have the set of coaches that we do

SP is so set in his ways now that he refuses to change anything

We really need a Patrick Willis, navarro bowman kind of guy in the middle, #54 for the cowboys looks like an up and coming player

Teams like the patriots and seahawks every year have about 13 picks in the draft, I can't remember a time when we've had more than 6
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:45 PM   #5
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
The sad truth is that I don't think it will change whilst we have the set of coaches that we do

SP is so set in his ways now that he refuses to change anything

We really need a Patrick Willis, navarro bowman kind of guy in the middle, #54 for the cowboys looks like an up and coming player

Teams like the patriots and seahawks every year have about 13 picks in the draft, I can't remember a time when we've had more than 6
We did it before with Greg Williams. We simply need a coordinator who knows personnel and knows how to utilize the personnel we have. We were just hanging on by a thread with Harper and Jenkins out there acting as LB's, and we cut them replacing them with a pure safety (Byrd) and CB Champ Bailey who is simply washed up. Bailey didn't upgrade MJ... he didn't even make our team, and didn't make the Lions either after we cut him.

Looking back, defensive final cuts and personnel decisions were abysmal this offseason. As usual, peronnel decisions on offense with specialty players was good, but our front office has a hard time evaluating defensive talent.

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Old 09-29-2014, 02:02 PM   #6
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by teddybarexxx View Post
question, why is all the talk is about how bad our defense looks? did y'all not see how awful our offense is playing? why dont i see fans saying maybe its time to look for a qb? why dont i see anyone saying we need a wr like a calvin johnson type? why dont i see anyone saying where's our adriene peterson type rb? how about a big hoggish ol? just think if our defense would have held up last night our offense still didnt see the likes of the redzone till the 4th qtr. how much defense is good defense with no offense? we look bad on both sides of the ball but i've been saying this for a while now. if we get this win sunday vs the bucs, go into the bye week with a 2-3 record, go to detroit and pull out an upset (because we will be the underdogs) now we're at 3-3 (.500) and could possibly go on a role. i feel right now its more of the saints not executing vs the other teams are just simply better.
The reason no one is going off about the offense just yet is because we have been top 10 for 8 years straight, a top 10 offense has been the only constant for us

The offense has carried this team for the last 8 seasons, while the D can't decide if they want to show up or not

Our D is completely Jekyll and Hyde every season, until they accomplish the same sort of consistency as our offense they will always be questioned first.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:03 PM   #7
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by teddybarexxx View Post
question, why is all the talk is about how bad our defense looks? did y'all not see how awful our offense is playing? why dont i see fans saying maybe its time to look for a qb? why dont i see anyone saying we need a wr like a calvin johnson type? why dont i see anyone saying where's our adriene peterson type rb? how about a big hoggish ol? just think if our defense would have held up last night our offense still didnt see the likes of the redzone till the 4th qtr. how much defense is good defense with no offense? we look bad on both sides of the ball but i've been saying this for a while now. if we get this win sunday vs the bucs, go into the bye week with a 2-3 record, go to detroit and pull out an upset (because we will be the underdogs) now we're at 3-3 (.500) and could possibly go on a role. i feel right now its more of the saints not executing vs the other teams are just simply better.
The offense isn't anywhere near as bad as the defense. I thought that was pretty obvious to everyone.
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Old 09-29-2014, 07:54 PM   #8
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

I want this guy in this years draft, if he skips his senior year:

Benardrick McKinney*, ILB/OLB, Mississippi State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 249.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2015): 1-3.

9/20/14: In 2014, McKinney has 20 tackles, five tackles for a loss and two sacks.

8/23/14: After redshirting in 2011, McKinney made a splash in 2012 and was named a First-Team Freshman All-American by numerous media outlets. He recorded 102 tackles with 4.5 tackles for a loss, one sack and four passes broken up. The sophomore had 70 tackles, seven tackles for a loss and 3.5 sacks in 2013.

McKinney is an intriguing, versatile athlete who has a lot of upside. He has the potential to add weight and play 3-4 outside linebacker, and maybe even some defensive end, along with inside and outside linebacker. Sources have told WalterFootball.com that they view McKinney as a three-down middle linebacker candidate for the NFL.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:49 PM   #9
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
The offense isn't anywhere near as bad as the defense. I thought that was pretty obvious to everyone.
It was to me. If the defense could have stopped them we might have been able to come back.
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Old 09-29-2014, 08:52 PM   #10
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Re: My Draft over-reaction

Originally Posted by Halo View Post
We also plugged difficiencies in our LB corp with Safeties. We had two "leaders" on defense in Vilma and Shanle. Vilma was the field general. Shanle stepped up when Scott Fujita left for Cleveland.

We have never replaced those leaders on defense. Like their play or not, our LB's are essentially invisible on the field. I've said since the first game that our defense plays like they are only playing with 10 men on the field, that's because there's a double deficiency somewhere - probably poor d-line and unreliable LB's to plug those holes.

So we FIX the problem with safeties. Everyone trashes Roman Harper, but now it's apparent he was plugging holes as an outside linebacker. We didn't have the foresight to simply name him "OLB" on the roster and make way.

Finally, folks mentioning Malcolm Jenkins with 3 int's for the Iggles. He's able to play a TRUE safety position and let his talent shine at the Eagles because they have competant defensive linemen and talent at LB. At the saints he roamed between safety, CB and LB watching runners blow past the d-line, then past the LB's into the secondary where he has to make the tackles. At the Eagles he can ball hawk!

I've ALWAYS said, draft LB early and often, as much as possible. Great LB's can not only be field general QB's on defense, some are great pass defenders as well as run stoppers. At this point, anything has to be an improvement, but LB may be a great starting point.
You're defending players who were part of the worst defense in NFL history two years ago. What makes you think they are the difference now? I think it's team complacency, from coaching schemes to players getting too high on themselves. I don't miss Harper or Jenkins one bit. How are the Panthers and Eagles defenses looking these days? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get caught up in the fact that a couple former players have made a few plays for other teams. They made a few of them for us too. But they were still bad the majority of the time.

I see guys missing tackles, which is an individual problem. And I see a very simple defensive game plan. We won't go anywhere if those things don't change fast. And offensively, it looks like guys are just feeling sorry for themselves. Colston and Graham botching play after play, bad line play and Brees, though he probably deserves the least blame given the crappy play around him, has still made some careless throws himself.

I do agree that we need better linebackers, but I don't see those two former players being gone as the reason why we suck.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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