I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I make no bones about it.... I hate Jake Delhomme and the Panthers. Hey, at least I'm honest....

Aaron will outplay Jake and the Saints will win. Remember I told ya!!!

Without a running game and a defense for most of the year Brooks has done better than most NFL QBs. Say what you will, but I understand what's really going on as opposed to some folks who just want Brooks gone. Sure he's made some mistakes but who hasn't?

This game won't be close..... Saints 28 Panthers 10

Why? Because I said so.,..... ;)

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Doesn\'t matter who\'s name you put at the end of that statement, 75% of the time you will be wrong. Maybe this week the other 25% of AB will show up and the team will win with him, instead of despite him. That would be something positive going into the playoffs. How a qb with a 78 passer rating gets so much love is beyond me. And passer rating doesn\'t take into account fumbles, just plain dumb plays, whether an INT is in the red zone or at the 50, and if that turnover results in a defensive td. Imagine what it would be then.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

That \"passer rating\" also doesn\'t account for dropped passes, poor route running, or a QB running for his life either. ;)

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

It also doesn\'t count for the qb not having the mental capacity to call audibles. But hey, he\'s ours!!! lol

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Saintswhodi, you sure have a raging boner for Brooks. Ease the tension fella.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Not that. Bu tI am not gonna be blinded to his obvious faults when he has done jack for this team the last 4 years, same as Haslett. If you can forget the fumbles that cost us games last year and the INTS that cost us games the two years before that, not to mention the embarassment of boneheaded plays that could probably fill a DVD, have at it. I want better for the team I love.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Did ya\'ll miss Halo\'s statement about the Brooks Delhomme debate? Talk about the game, fine but please leave out the same old tired debate about the QB\'s.For those of you who missed it, I\'ll post the quote.

Guys, everyone\'s tired of the Brooks vs. Delhomme debate. Members need to be extra careful where they tread here, if I find that it\'s starting up just to be an annoyance I will have to start pressing buttons again.

[Edited on 29/12/2004 by JOESAM2002]

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Hey JoeSam, are we not allowed to discuss Brooks also? Noone here is talking about Delhomme, I think we all got the message. This is strictly about Brooks. Is that wrong? We can\'t talk about our starting qb now? Seriously? The only person who said anything about Delhomme was Gumbo and that was the first post and that\'s it. Everything else has been strictly Brooks.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I didn\'t know Brooks vs. Delhomme was off limits.

I can understand Halo\'s point. And will honor that request.

However..... ;)

Halo/JoeSam --

Seeing how this is the last game of the regular season and it is Aaron vs. Jake, I ask that it be allowed as long as it is kept civil. While some of us have debated this topic many times, some have not. And I\'d like to hear from some of those folks on that very subject.

What if those of us who want to discuss it promise to keep it on one thread and not all over the board? Seems fair to me...

How bout it? :D

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Gator,

What\'s up bud? Good to see you\'re still here.

Now on to the topic at hand... ;)

I predicted this team to be 8-8. Go look it up if ya don\'t believe me. Also, I said many times I wasn\'t sold on this team.

Was I optimistic? You betcha I was. Just like every year.

And you know what? I\'m still optimistic. And it\'s fun. It\'s fun that we have a great shot of reaching the playoffs. It\'s what I live for on Sundays.

Now, I\'m not patting Haz on the back and saying good job. No sir. Instead I\'m taking a wait and see approach.

My predictions were just as accurate as yours or most other folks. BTW... What were your predicitons again?

I believe you told me the Panthers were going to be great this year? What\'s their record? And don\'t use the injury thing. It was you who preached over and over that injuries were NO EXCUSE.

I\'ll be waiting... Peace :cool:

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Gator --

You are using injuries as an excuse for the Panthers? You? C\'mon man?! The guy who told me 1000 times that injuries were no excuse. I guess that only applies to the Saints. Hmm.

Nick Goins is averaging over 100 yards per game. And that, my friend, is all that matters. What difference does it make what round he was drafted in? I believe Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. And??

Our Saints have underachieved for most of the season. Especially Deuce. That\'s right, D-E-U-C-E !!!! That was the guy who was suppose to carry the offense. Well, our 0-line F\'d that up. They also can\'t pass block at all.

Then we our defense gave up more yards than any defense over the past 25-years.

My expectations haven\'t been met. But, it aint over with yet. We\'ll see....

Good to hear from ya Gator. :)

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I don\'t care what anyone says, but when a team has as many injuries to key starters at the skill positions or on defense, there is going to be a struggle to win games. The Panthers lose their starting tailback, their back-up tailback (who could be a starter anywhere), and their #1 wide receiver. A couple of losses on defense with Kris Jenkins for the season and not having Dan Morgan for several games is no help either. A make-shift offensive line due to retirements, players leaving via free agency, or injury all contribute to a 1-7 start.

On the flip side to this, when you have a bunch of back-ups or rookies playing, one of two things will happen. They will improve and show they are worthy of playing time, or they will show that they are no more than back-ups. John Fox has gotten his players to play above and beyond expectations on their run for the playoffs. Mushin Muhammed really stepped up to have an unbelievable season. Keary Colbert has played very well as a rookie. The offensive line improved week to week to allow the likes of Brad Hoover and Nick Goings to have career seasons. Julius Peppers has been doing nothing but making plays on defense, and their defense leads the NFC (or maybe the entire NFL), in total interceptions. Things have definitely seemed to be going their way.

However, all good things must come to an end. With the strength of the Saints defense the last few weeks, the gradual improvement and utilization of Deuce in the offense, Brooks coming through in the clutch (see Tampa Bay), and the exceptional play of the special teams, I predict the Saints to take a victory (I can\'t believe I\'m saying this) in Carolina.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Sup D?
Please post more.
We could use a few more realists around here. ;)
Injuries do matter and I take my hats off to the Panthers. They sucked it up and are now playing like champions.
Of course I hope they play like crap Sunday.
I\'ll take a gift win anyday.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Gator--

Well, ok then, lets rock-n-roll.

You give the Panthers a free ride because of their injuries but the fact is they only have about 3 STARTERS on I.R. The rest are mainly backups.

Heck, Mel Mitchel was lost in preseason and Darren Howard hardly played last year. We had more starters out on defense last year than what the Panthers have this year.

Last year half of our defense was out for the majority of the season. Darren Howard hardly played the whole year. Along with many more.

Honesty? You want to talk about honest? Honesty?!

You honestly hold the Saints to a different standard than other teams. I said last yeat the Saints were hurt because of injuries.

And the Panthers were hurt this year because of injuries. I give them credit for that. But we won as many games last year as the Panthers have this year with just as many injuries. You want to dispute that?

Give me the truth Gator. How many starters have the Panthers lost this year. Tell me and then let\'s talk... Okay>?

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I got no problem with it. Halo might, but if you don\'t make it personal like ya\'ll have been know to do, :thumbup: it\'s ok by me.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

And to think, I actually missed these discussions...LMAO!!

Let\'s cut to the chase, Gator.

Fact: The Saints lost Darren Howard in the 1st game.
Fact: The Saints lost Mel Mitchell (starter) in preseason.

That\'s 2 starters out right there.

Fact: Dale Carter ( Injured most of the season)
Fact: Joe Horn ( Played injured for many games and it affected his play greatly.

I could go on and on but it makes no difference to you.

If you apply your logic fairly to both teams then you\'d see what I\'m talking about.

But that\'s not your game, Gator. Your game is to do EVERYthing in your power to apply a different set of rules to the Saints.

A three legged mule is a three legged mule. They just don\'t have the same gittyup as a 4 legged mule. Get it?

Our 3-legged mule won 8 games last year. How many games has the Panthers 3-legged mule won this year.

Gittyup Gator!! :o

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Gator...

I said STARTERS. Not bench warmers.

Really the only impact players the Panthers have out are

Steve Smith, Jenkins, and Davis.

Remember when you pointed to the Patriots last year and all their injuries? You said they won the super bowl and that was NUFF SAID.

NUFF SAID.... :P

It\'s a bitter pill to be sure. Just hold your nose and swallow quickly. :D

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I was going to post the list of players Carolina had on IR, but Gator beat me to it. Way to be on the ball, bro. ;)

13 players on IR is a ton whether they are starters, 2nd string, or practice squad. That\'s a lot of adversity to overcome. The Saints last year didn\'t lose Howard for the entire season. Mitchell was lost, but he was only the projected starter and Bellamy went on to have a pretty darn good year because he was playing his true position, even though he was one of the few bright spots. It\'s correct to say that Horn played injured for most of the season last year and it cut his production, but he did play. The Panthers didn\'t have that luxury with Steve Smith, Stephen Davis, or DeShaun Foster. Their seasons ended before they really began.

I guess what I\'m trying to say is that the Saints last year weren\'t good at 8-8 and had far less injuries than the Panthers have had this year. The fact that the Panthers have won 7 games this year with all those injuries just astounds me.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Gator --

This is what I know.

Last year you said injuries were no excuse for a teams losing. You pointed to the Patriots and said they won the super bowl despite their injuries. Did you forget that? Well, you don\'t get off the hook that easy, Gator.

Own up to your statements.

How did the Pats do it? They led the league in injuries. And you reminded me of that SO many times. Is it coming back to you yet? KNOCK KNOCK!!

Jarring your memory yet?

The Pats didn\'t use injuries as an excuse. The Panthers just suck and it because of a lack of leadership. Tom Brady is a winner and Jake is a loser...

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I\'m sorry to hear you have the flu, Gator.

Look, either injuries responsible for a teams wins and losses or they are not.

You can\'t have it both ways. If key players go down it hurts their teams no matter when they happen. If they are losing when they happen they can\'t bulid monmentum to get back on a winning track. They just keep losing. Who\'s to say we could have turned it around last year if we didn\'t have so many injuries?

Hell, maybe our injuries didn\'t cost us any games. It\'s impossible to know for sure because it can\'t be proven. However, that\'s a big reach.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Carolina has rose up in the face of adversity. I remember someone saying last year that injuires were part of the game and should not be used as an excuse for the Saints. Carolina has not used any excuse. When your 3rd string RB has stepped up and helped a team win, my hats off to him. Which concerns me, considering until the past three weeks we had made every bench warming RB look like a Pro Bowler. Two teams playing with adversity. One team who was imploding the other riddled with injuries. I find it amazing how the prophets awaken only when their prophecies have a fighting chance to come true. Also notice how I did not one time mention Brooks sucks in this post. :doh: I wish the Saints good luck, Carolina is not going to roll over in this game. Watching Gator and Billy reminds me of the old SNL skit with Jane Curtain and Chevy Chase...hmmmm I think it was Point/Counter Point. I am just waiting for Gator to say ...Billy you ignorant slut.


[Edited on 30/12/2004 by subguy]

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

I was just using your own arguement against you. That\'s notg what I believe.

I give the entire Panthers organization credit. I thought they were done. They pulled together and have made a run.

However, they haven\'t beat ONE team with a winning record.

So, how good are they really?

One last thing... I don\'t like Jake because of all the love he gets from Saints fans. Jake is not a Saint anymore. He is the enemy. I\'m sure he\'s a nice fella in person. I bet Aaron is too.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

You just had to get the J and the A words in again. This is not about being nice people. It is about football and performance and winning. JD can be an enemy for one week just as I am sure AB looks at Vick as the enemy when we play Atlanta. If it is not fair to blame losses on one guy, then it is not fair to give credit for wins to one guy. ALL that matters Sunday is what the final scoreboard reflects. Also I really do think you dislike Delhomme, not necessarily because of the love Saints fans give him. But because lots of Saints fans give him more love than Brooks.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

So you notice Delhomme gets more love than the starting QB for the Saints. Good, I thought I was crazy.

Thanks subguy for backing me up. Nice job, bud.. :o

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Ding ding ding ding. I think subguy wins the prize. Good call.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

The week before the regular season started in 2003, you had the defensive coordinator (Venturi) saying in a \"eve-of-opening-day\" interview that the defense for the season would be (and I paraphrase) \"as good as Darren Howard can make it, because we\'ve designed everything we\'ve installed based on using his versitility. Our defenses will be set up to free Darren to make the plays.\"

In the first series of the first game of the year, Darren Howard dislocated his wrist and was lost for half the season.

The Saints defense played really badly at the beginning of the year (actually, for most of the year) partly because all of the schemes that were to focus on Howard went right out the window. Was it a mistake to base everything around one player for whom you don\'t have a legitimate replacement? Probably.

Why, when things don\'t turn out as they\'d wanted, do so many people think \"excuse\" when what they\'re really hearing is a \"reason\"? There\'s a difference.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

We will.

I'm fired up and can't wait
 

Please ... don\'t want this to start another JD/AB debate, but Jake\'s EARNED more love, even with another team...

Enough about that. Given Haslett\'s post-game press conferences earlier this year (before the 3-game streak), it\'s almost impossible to glean either REASONS or EXCUSES for what happened to the team this season. When asked, Haslett has repeatedly admitted he \"doesn\'t know what the problem is,\" a comment so ambiguous it\'s almost impossible to label it as either. Now, I can\'t argue with the logic that the bloody HEAD COACH ought to know what the heck the problem is, but SOMEONE should to know and take responsibility. In my opinion, that falls on Haz, for lack of a better person to blame. And I\'m one of the pathetic few Haslett supporters!