Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Our offense is old and any window for another super bowl win is all about shut now. :brood:

I guess it is time to accept the fact and get ready to start rebuilding ASAP.:confused:

I hope this angers all saint fans! :twisted:

Lambast away I can handle it.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I think the Saints offense could be dominating in all facets of attack if Brees didn't turn it over so much.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Despite our offense struggling at times... I don't think that is so much the issue as our Defense is.

Looks like the D turned the corner and then this past week they started getting a bit fancy on us and I wasn't to happy with what was going on with the play of our D and giving up to many running plays.

I am all for rebuilding and I think in a way we have started the process. We have no real leaders on D because of it and that is lacking in our play. They need to find themselves.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Mistakes.

We make more of them now than we ever did.

Is that a function of age? coaching? desire? ability?

Or all of them?

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We definitely need to look at getting younger and we need some leaders on D

Lord knows Vaccaro is not a leader on D, who would want to follow that example? Missing tackles and blowing coverages

We need some speed at LB, I'd love it if we could sign lavonte David from Tampa, that guy is a beast.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I found myself watching the Philly game last night, & I hate to admit but I started to get mad at Drew Brees. Not b/c of his poor play of late, but because of his contract. I know, it's a business and he deserved what he got. But everyone knows this is a team sport. People flourish or fail, in large part, because of their surroundings. Drew Brees was great (& still is) but the people and players around him helped catapult this team to the next level. Sean Payton no doubt helped elevate Drew Brees' game, as did so many others both offensively and defensively; and so many of those Key players are gone now, because we essentially cannot afford to keep them. I realize some are in decline so better to release now than later. But you can't tell me leadership and locker room presence don't play a major role in team success. I think we are seeing a product of that now. Good or bad, right or wrong.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Not the contract crap again. :rolleyes: If you compare Brees' contract to those around the league and those about to come about in the next couple of years for FAR lessor QB's you would see that the Saints got a good deal out of it. By 2016 the salary cap is going to be more than $30 million higher than it was when Brees got his deal. His salary is counting LESS percentage-wise against the cap and that is even before the very likely restructuring which will take place next off-season. Blaming Brees' pay is a totally misguided reaction to simple bad luck and frustration as a fan.

Personally, I feel very fortunate that the Saints are still in the position they are in. The division is theirs to win now and anything can happen in the playoffs.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Not so much that the offense is getting old but the same old stubbornness to come out throwing to start a game when we have been running the ball well. Again the first 7 plays called against SF were pass plays and the 3rd play was an INT that set up a TD. You can't start a game with consecutive 3 and outs.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

In today's NFL windows open faster than they close.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

*yawn*
GTFO...

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I never understood the Saints fans who constantly want to jump up every twenty minutes and declare

"that's it, the window is closed."



As if the whole world isn't waiting for it to happen?

The folks who are always going on about the window closing -- I have to ask, what else do you people do the rest of the time?

Do you sit around in hospitals, and wait for them to stop pounding on the chest, and declare the patient is dead, so you can jump in with your watch and declare the time of death? Do you stay up all night waiting for the last election results, so you can run past the winner's podium and go declare who is the loser? Do you sit around at airports and wait for people who missed their planes, so you can run up to them and taunt them about it?

What kind of person lives day to day, waiting for "the window to close" so they can jump up and be the first one to announce it?

I just don't understand the mentality of it. I don't understand the psychology of it.

The window is NOT closed, and when the day eventually comes and it finally IS closed, trust me, EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMOTHER WILL KNOW IT. There will come a Sunday, something will happen, it will be universal, and we will know it and it will be so intuitively obvious to every living soul, that WE WON'T NEED ANYONE TO TELL US.

So the very fact that someone actually wants to DEBATE that the window is closed, shows me that it clearly isn't.

I've noticed over the years that some Saints fans act like winning is all a crazy dream, and they subconsciously can't wait to wake up from it and go back to losing and being miserable again. Well, that's not reality, and that's not going to happen for a while yet. There are A LOT of things still left to fall apart, implode or turn sour, before the window actually closes.

WE ARE FIRST IN THE DIVISION. There is plenty of rebuilding and reloading already going on, and plenty more that needs to happen still.

After winning 19 or twenty-something games in a row (not counting 2012), we were actually waaaay overdue for a home loss under Sean Payton. Not the end of the world.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I think the offense could be dominating if the defense was playing halfway decent and Brees didn't feel like he had to put the whole team on his back... Anyone with an open mind can see that he starts taking big chances when he starts feeling the pressure from a struggling defense

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We went all-in to win now. Where's the rebuilding money going to come from?

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

In my opinion the Linebacker position is our Achilles Heel along with a true leader on Defense that hold players accountable. I don't see rebuilding didn't we just trade off a bunch of old veterans.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Ummm No. I will not face any facts except the one that states we, the NEW ORLEANS SAINTS, are in 1ST PLACE in the NFC SOUTH. That's the only one that matters. All other facts are useless.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Blah blah blah. Somehow I knew you would come out of the woodwork when I posted this. I don't care how it compares to other contracts. That wasn't my point at all. All I know is there are those QBs (& other highly sought out players) that have a much more humble approach. When he went to Denver, didn't Manning (or maybe it was Brady) mention he wasn't as concerned w his contract ($$) as he was with keeping the right people around him? I am not a Brees hater, and certainly not one of the ones saying he's in decline. I just know it takes more than one person and we have lost key players and leaders in our locker room because of several massive contracts. And you can't tell me that doesn't have something to do with our issues.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We need to get younger on the o-line and draft first or second round prospects not six round to undrafted players and pray they pan out. Same for a good lb. Weed Evans, Strief, and Grubbs out and that will be a ton a cap money back in the hat.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Dude. This is dumb. If we make the playoffs we have a shot. This team isn't THAT bad. It's certainly not worse than either one of those Giants teams that won Super Bowls the last few years. Those teams were hot garbage, snuck into the playoffs in a bad division and won the whole stupid thing. If they can do it the Saints surely can.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Nope, we're not BAD. The rest of the NFC South is bad. I'm sure we're more feared than any other NFCS team. But, we're certainly not very good either. Not at this point anyway.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

My first question to that is:
Do we sign Brees to another major money contract or trade him for draft picks like the Colts did Manning?
2: What side of the ball(offense or defense) do we invest heavily in?
3: How do we get out of the crazy money contracts(Grubbs, Lofton, Graham type) and make it work in our favor.
4.Who do we keep and who do we let go?
Rebuilding is going to happen sooner or later, it has to. No bashing here, we do need to look at the future!!

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We could really do with a draft like we had in 2006

Reggie Bush, Roman Harper, Jahri evans, colston, PT as an UDFA
All gave us at least 5 or more solid years as a saint.

We tend to strike out on draft picks more than land successful players nowadays

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

The point that 73Saint made is a valid point, a lot of money was eaten up with that contract. And you have to figure there is that much less across
the boards. Brees has made us an instant contender since he got here.
I guess that is why our GM makes the big bucks to put all this into
perspective. Money or not I still don't see many QB's out there that
I would have the same faith in.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

No. I don't think it has anything to do with "our issues". As I pointed out, cap is not an issue with the current and future trend. There is a 53 man roster that needs to be filled. The cap did not keep the Saints from making major moves. Losing Jarius Byrd has something very real to do with our issues. Having Keenan Lewis go down with the leg injury has something to do with the issues Sunday. Graham suffering a shoulder injury had something to do with our issues. Untimely drops have something to do with our issues.

Brees is going to restructure along the same lines as Brady did a few years back and get more guaranteed money over a longer period ... just like Brady so famously did.

No, we lost key leaders from our locker room because they were old and could no longer produce. Does that create a leadership vacuum? Hell yes it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with an extremely fair contract awarded to Drew Brees.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

The Colts did not trade Manning. They cut him. There is no way the Saints would cut Brees (or trade Brees) when they can restructure. They "crazy money contracts" will work easily under the rapidly rising cap.

Rebuilding is already happening. Successful programs are constantly rebuilding. That's why the Saints have only a handful of players left from the Super Bowl roster. There are extremely young players on both sides of the ball.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I didn't say Brees' contract was unfair. I referenced Brees' (& other massive contracts, didn't I?), and made no mention of them being unfair. But they do "hamstring" us. And I can't name them all but there are at least 3 to 5 of our old-and-no-longer-producing leaders, on other teams right now and thriving...and it's because we didn't have the cap space to keep them.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

And which old leaders would those be? Harper and Jenkins have been looking just as poor the last few games as they had in NO. Jabari Greer has retired. Vilma has given up looking for work. Will Smith got cut by the Patriots. Lance Moore has failed to catch more than two passes in a game since leaving. Sproles is the ONLY player that has had any success and he was at a position that was five players deep on the Saints.

Maybe you are talking about before then, huh? Who is thriving elsewhere? Carl Nicks? No. Jonathon Goodwin? Oh, wait. He's back. De a Puente? He's really helping those Bears, huh?

There are not any players cut or not re-signed by the Saints since Brees' contract that I can think of that could be classified as "thriving" elsewhere.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

I was thinking Sproles & Jenkins. I thought Jenkins was doing extremely well in Philly. If not, my bad. I also thought we had several players thriving in Detroit.

But, whatever. I Still love the Saints, and this forum (for the most part). Except when people express a thought and get lambasted for being a bandwagon fan or having no clue.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

keep them coming boy we got more than a few people to pop out of the wood work on this one.

if you have read every response up to this point you should be feeling better about the saints.

but also some great points made to get some heads out of the sand at the same time.

My sides are killing me from LMAO at some of the funny responses that made valid points at my expense. ;)

good god i love this site.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We are already well into the rebuilding process.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

We aren't rebuilding, we're upgrading, re-loading, re-tooling, adjusting etc...

1-15 teams rebuild. We're one of the winningest teams in the NFL over the last 8 years.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Good thread lots of good banter. Sproles & Jenkins in my opinion are good players and helping the Eagles to a very good season. Jenkins is 26 and Sproles is 31 so actually he is definitely in the twilight of his career. One guy I don't miss is Bushrod, watched him get owned the other night something terrible. I'm sure Drew didn't shed a tear either.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Look at Arizona, Detroit, and even Buffalo. Also the Eagles rebuilt in about a year after they fired Reid. Then there are the Jacksonville and the Raiders of the league that never seem to do squat in spite of high draft picks.
It all starts with a good FO and an owner willing to spend what it takes.
We have both.

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Even after those 1st half picks he brought us back to take the lead so how did he lose the game Our OT got beat like a drum on that sack fumble and the defense gave up a 50 yarder on 4th/10 did he make it more difficult for us yes no question but he didn't lose the game he gave us the lead back once that happen the picks don't matter there wasn't no coming back from a blown coverage on 4th down with a minute to go our Team is on Suicide watch because we kill ourselves WE LOST 4 Games in the last 2min w/ the lead execution and communication is the problem

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

The worse best thing to happen to this offense is Jimmy Graham Drew doesn't care who's around him he'll throw him the ball regardless in any situation

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

Lol wait aren't we top 10 in rushing and passing??? And the offense is to blame.....I'm seeing a lot of spoiled fans in here...the problem lies in the defense...it's no leadership out there and coaching takes some blame too...how the hell does SP keep bums like Meachem,toon and White on the roster?? I agree rebuilding needs to start...the o line and the secondary ASAP

Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts
 

The O line is less than marginal we all know if Drew has the time he will pick any team apart. On D the LB's are marginal at best and we don't have
a strong Field General. The one thing I do notice on this forum not many are beating up on Rob Ryan.