I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

I wanted to be leading the "Fire Haslett" crowd. I wanted to be leading the charge. I wanted him GONE GONE GONE!!

But after seeing all the heart and fight in this team, I just can't go there anymore.

Does winnning the last 4 games mean nothing.

Well, it means it wasn't good enough to make the playoffs.

I suppose that's all that matters to some fans. They really don't care if Haslett is a good coach or not. We didn't make the playoffs and the hell with everything else.

I was sceptical until the Panthers game. I didn't give the Saints much of a chance going up against the Panthers in their house. Afterall, the Panthers were the HOTTEST team in the NFL. They were kicking everyone's ass.

I thought they were going to make short work of us. But, they didn't. We punched them in the mouth from the begginning and never looked back. The Saints left it all on the field.

To be honest, we could have won the game and would have still wanted Haslett fired if we would have played poorly.

My hat is off to the coaches and players. They did something no one thought they could do. And did it in a way that left no doubt. There wasn't any luck in what they did.

It was all about heart, baby!!

And my heart tells me to believe my eyes and not listen some fans who wanted Haz gone anyway and refuse to listen to anything other than what they want to hear.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

There is something I\'ve always liked about Haslet so I have supported him in hopes that he would do great things with our team. Unfortunately, he hasn\'t gotten it done. If the contract situation were different, I would be all in favor of firing him. 4 years without a playoff appearance is too many to justify him keeping his job regardless of what the team did in the last 4 games.

Since the contract situation is not otherwise, then we might as well keep him. I\'ll continue to root for his success and hope that he makes the appropriate changes to his staff this offseason.

Regardless, I hope the 4 game winning streak is a sign of things to come and not a mirage born from playing lesser competition.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

I see it\'s been the same ole same ole around here, while i was gone.

After three dismal seasons in a row, I don\'t see how you can justify that statement. But if you\'re perfectly happy with a mediocre team, by all means, keep whistlin dixie.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Again, the only victory of merit in the \"streak\" is Carolina.
Dallas 6-10
TB 5-11
Falcons - don\'t hurt me, I\'m in the playoffs and seeded.

so no, was not convinced the past 5 years, I\'m not convinced now, and honestly I don\'t think I\'m going to be conviinced next year... but again, the law of averages...

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

By \"some fans\" who \"refuse to listen to anything other than what they want to hear\" were you talking about me, or did you mean every member who has responded to your thread?


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4 years without a playoff appearance is too many to justify him keeping his job regardless of what the team did in the last 4 games.
-ScottyRO

I see it\'s been the same ole same ole around here, while i was gone.After three dismal seasons in a row, I don\'t see how you can justify that statement. But if you\'re perfectly happy with a mediocre team, by all means, keep whistlin dixie.
-BnB

I\'m not for more of the same and nothing that Jim Haslett has done over the last FIVE years makes me believe YEAR 6 will be any different....But hey....maybe YEAR 6 is the charm....if not YEAR 7 or 8 or 9 through 20. Lets just trust Haslett.
-Gator

so no, was not convinced the past 5 years, I\'m not convinced now, and honestly I don\'t think I\'m going to be conviinced next year...
-Tobias
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I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

It\'s hard to agrue for Haslett keeping his job. Missing the playoffs the past 4 seasons is certainly enough evidence for his firing.

It really all comes down to how much stock you put in the last 4 games. Was it a mirage? Was it luck?

Or was it a sign of things to come?

If you think it was a mirage, then Haslett should be fired.

But, if you think they showed real progress, then maybe Haslett should stay.

I believe they showed real signs of progress.

Am I satisfied with a mediocre team?

Of course not. But that doesn\'t necessairly fall all on Haslett\'s shoulders.

Mike Holmgren and Shanahan have both had mediocre teams over the same time period and I think most of us would be glad to have them as a head coach. Or did they just forget how to coach? If we held both of those coaches to the same standards .... all you of guys would have to vote in favor of firing them.

Again, it\'s hard to ignore the last 4-games of the season. I think even Haslett\'s harshest critics could see the team respond in a way that was very surprising.

Who thought we would dominate the Panthers in thier house?

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

I think Billy did...

As for the optimism:

I don\'t see that we\'ve turned a corner or made any significant change that merits any major optimism.

Unlike other seasons, we didn\'t have more than 2 decisive wins. But we had a lot of decisive losses. Our most consistent and only elite player (Horn), has played through nagging injuries for the past 2 seasons, has gotten on Haz\'s bad side, has a big cap number and is getting no younger.

1. What we see instead is that the good offensive line Haslett inherited has been allowed to atrophy into utter ineffecitveness whether we run or pass.

2. The defensive line which has gotten more free agents and draft picks than any other area of the team over 5 years gave up more rushing yards than anyone else in the league and it looks like we still need to sign a NT to even begin to fix this area.

3. Linebackers--we have said so much about this and still it hasn\'t really been fixed. Watson has me cautiously optimistic, but the kid can\'t do it all on his own.

4. If we play man, I feel OK about the secondary. With MM, I\'m no longer convinced that we are abysmal at the CB position, but I don\'t think we have the personnel to play zone.

5. Wasn\'t this supposed to be Boo\'s breakout year? Will we ever be able to use the TE in this offense?

6. QB--the same mistakes as last year and the year before and the year before and the year before. If the guy is going to develop, when will it be? Can a guy with such a nutty, out of control ego even be persuaded that he still needs work?

7. I feel OK about the backfield with Karney and Stecker. Deuce needs to get back to form--but Haz and company also need to figure out whether Deuce needs to gain or lose weight and stick with it--quit making your franchise RB an offseason yo-yo.

8. The WR\'s are a huge question mark. If we keep all 3, and Henderson can learn to run a friggin route, then we should be alright. I don\'t have a lot of confidence in the front office to keep the unit together.

I just don\'t see this team \"putting it all together\". But even if we were, I think we\'re 4-8 starters away from being more than an 8-8 team.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

The common trend for those coaches you mentioned Gumbo seems to be one thing, inconsistent quarterbacking. Holmgren went from Favre to Hasselbeck, who couldn\'t beat out Dilfer at first, lit the world on fire last year, and was up and down all this season. Shanahan went from Elway to Griese(nuff said) and Plummer, who is way up and then way down as well. So maybe their good coaching was tied to having hall of fame qbs. And maybe, Haslett\'s coaching tenure is marked by inconsistent quarterbacking also. He certainly has never had a hall of fame qb to coach. But in all fairness, Haslett has had opportunities to do something about it, and he hasn\'t. So maybe all three should be fired. Shanahan and Holmgren should be out for not remaining elite after losing hall of fame qbs, and Haslett should be out for backing an inconsistent qb and eliminating all his competition year in and year out. If either were to come here, they would be in the same situation, so they probably could not improve upon what we have. I will agree with you on that. Denver always has a top rated defense, but their qbs have been inconsistent since Elway left so defense doesn\'t seem to be the only answer either to solving the coaching problem.

But along with everyone else, I agree it is time for Haslett to go. I am glad he tried, but come on, 5 years to get this thing right? 5? That\'s half a decade. But seems he is staying. We all have to live with it. Here\'s hoping that maybe, just maybe, consistency will come out of the number one position, and he will justify the faith you still have in him. I am gonna be as positive as I can about the next season.

[Edited on 6/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Couldn\'t disagree more.
We have more than enough talent here to be a perinneal playoff contender. If its true we\'re still 4-8 starters away from being more than an 8-8 team then Haz and company must have coached their asses off this year.
I am not about to give them that excuse.
Haz has already implied he wants some more input into the players we pick, meaning its not exactly Haz\'s players.

If personnel is the problem then point the finger at Meuller (Randy as well as Rick) and Loomis, not Haz.
My own personal opinion is that coaching is the MAIN problem. ALL the other problems are a distant second.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Amazingly, I agree with Danno. Haslett has had more than enough talent to succeed. Give Jim Mora this kind of talent and we\'re in the NFC Championship. Haslett and his staff can\'t coach. That\'s the problem.

I do see BMG\'s point though, and he has a good one. He\'s talking about one of my biggest fears - how long can we keep this talent together? Three years ago this team was a MLB, DT, CB, and consistent QB away. Now we have o-line problems, our WRs are iffy... this is what happens in the NFL. Players leave, teams raid others rosters, you cannot keep everyone together forever. Not only have Haz and co. failed to fix the problems at MLB, DT, or QB, other problems like the o-line and WRs have popped up. This team isn\'t making forward progress, and that\'s the problem. Every year they find a new way to f--- up...

As for Holmgren and Shanahan, I think both deserve to be fired. There are two important differences between those two and Haslett. They\'re called Super Bowl wins. Both have PROVEN they can succeed. But sometimes, people have to move on. Sometimes things change and the environment is no longer right. Whether it\'s players, management, cap trouble, or just plain bad luck (ha ha), sometimes coaches need to move on. It may not be all Shanahan\'s fault that the Broncos are poo, just like it may not be all Haslett\'s fault in NO, but both need to go, IMO.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

I agree WhoDat. Haslett has not earned the free pass that the other two coaches mentioned are getting. He has had his chance repeatedly to get it right, and he hasn\'t. It\'s just time for a new identity.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Haslett is not the problem nor are any of the coaches.
Not one person has put the blame on the players.
Yes the players are athletically gifted. Tebucky Jones is a prime example of this.
Guess what? Athletes don\'t win football games. If they did then we would have a bunch of track and field stars out there playing.
Football players win football games. In particular smart football players. And to be even more specific unselfish, smart football players win Championships.
Look at the Patriots. They don\'t win because Belicheck is such a great coach. They win because he is a great talent evaluator and he dumps players that start in with that me first menatilty. Look at Lawyer Milloy last year. Everyone was screaming for them for releasing him. Has anyone seen him since? Did the Patriots miss a beat? Did anyone see how fast Ty Law changed his selfish tune this summer when Belichick put him in his place. He was calling his coach a liar for God sake and said he would never play in a Patriot uniform again. Funny, on Week 1 he was practically singing the Patriot fight song.
I feel the Saints main and only problem is that they scout too much by the numbers. They draft very poorly (Stinchcomb I\'m talking about you) and they put up with too much crap from their star players (Victor Riley I\'m talking about you). i.e. no reprocussions for poor play.
Just look at the string of rif raf that has come and go the past 5 years here:

Ricky \"Pot Head\" Williams
Kyle \"Crazy Helmet Tosser\" Turley
Willie \"Joe Horn slept with my wife\" Roaf
Albert \"Sticky Fingers\" Connell
Norman \"Needs a hamburger\" Hand
Grady \"Needs two hamburgers\" Jackson
Dale \"Needs some crack\" Carter
and my favorite
Jonathan \"Needs three hamburgers\" Sullivan

Do I need to go on? Someone brought these players in and they have corrupted our team for the past 5 years. People are amazed we haven\'t made the playoffs since 2000. I\'m amazed we haven\'t been picking first every year.
If it wasn\'t for the strenght of Haslett\'s personality (he looks like he\'s aged 20 years by the way) we probably would have.
The blame for 4 years of futility falls on the scouts for the team, the G.M. picking the players, and the players lack of character and discipline. If Haslett helps to pick the players then he is not blameless, but I have a feeling he has less control than most coaches over who walks in and out of the lockerroom.

[Edited on 6/1/2005 by stockman311]

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Wow so, a coach who has had the consensus most talent in at least the NFC South (voted on by media and other NFC South coaches) if not the NFC yet can\'t make the playoffs is not responsible? Well, maybe a coach who kept a d-coordinator who everyone who is a fan of the team knows is no better than a position coach and who has steadily worsened the d each year is to blame? No? Okay, maybe a coach who repeatedly says after losses \"I have no idea how to fix what the problem is.\" No? Okay, maybe a coach who decides they needed to get fat up front, so gets rid of La\'Roi glover, then subsequently fat was too fat and they get rid of Grady Jackson and so conditioning won\'t be a problem, drafts fat Jonathon Sullivan? No? Or a coach who decides they need to get faster on D so jettisons Sammy Knight(who now has the most INTS by a safety the past 4 years in the NFL) for Tebucky Jones? No? Or a coach who changes the formula for winning EVERY offseason? No?

Actually, they do. And it is recognized league wide.

One guess who that someone is, the same someone who changes philosophies more than his underwear.

The first part is right, the second I feel is wrong.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Give me a break. If you feel Haslett brought all these players in then you have lost it. Mueller/Loomis. Enough said. One is gone. One should be gone.
Haslett is a good coach with a very bad personel department.

Funny Bill Parcells was considered the best coach in the league for a good long time. A few crazy non character players later and he looks pretty bad this year.
Coaching is about putting a game plan together that takes advantage of the other teams weaknesses and has the ability to be flexible when unexpected things happen during the course of the game. The main problem that I have with Haslett is that he didn\'t bench starters for making bonehead penalties that just killed us early in the year. Would you rather have a guy like Mike Martz?

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

Well, Mike Martz has been to a Superbowl in the last 4 years, so.......

Here\'s a nice article for you from 2002 after the Mueller firing:

http://clarionherald.org/20020731/buddyd.htm

And he wants more control over personnel.

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

..you just killed your own argument, like... really dead...
Parcells is still considered one of the great coaches of all time.. one bad season is not going to tarnish his achievements in the NFL.. he\'s also almost 70 years old...

...Mike Martz, while being an egotistical loony job, was the OC of the 1999 Rams, and since he took the HC position:
2000- 10-6 - reached playoffs
2001 - 12-4 - won division - reached SB
2002 - 7-9 - went through QB controversy
2003 - 12-4 - won division - went to playoffs
2004 8-8 - won division - going to playoffs

I don\'t know.. you tell me which results you would\'ve preferred the past 5 years...

I wanted Haslett gone. But...
 

While I won\'t argue that Loomis is not a good football GM and the younger Mueller needs to be put on the first train outta here, to suggest that Haslett and especially Venturi are free of blame is ridiculous.

This is the players\' fault? Name one team other than the 1991 Saints with more talent in the history of the franchise. One.

You think Loomis is calling the shots on player personnel? Who wanted Tebucky Jones? Haslett. Who bragged about his big coup to move up and draft Sullivan b/c that\'s the player they really wanted all along? Haslett. Who couldn\'t stop talking about Mel Mitchell? Haslett!! This isn\'t Loomis\' team. You don\'t hear Loomis saying, \"now we\'ve got the players I think we need to be successful.\" Haslett said before the 2003 season that he finally had HIS team. If the players such then either he\'s not coaching \'em or he picked the wrong guys.

In the real world, when a company underperforms, the CEO gets canned. He can\'t point at his middle managers and say, \"well those guys aren\'t performing.\" It\'s his job to MAKE them, and Haslett hasn\'t excelled at doing much of anything except fattening up Defensive Tackles and ensuring the people of New Orleans get ANOTHER average season.