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I've never understood some fans. I'm talking about those fans who like to blame only the coach and the QB.

I can understand that coming from kids but it amazes me that there are folks out there who have been watching football thier whole lives and they still blame the coach and the QB.

There are a lot of fans here who whine and cry about Brooks. Nevermind the fact that Brooks played behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league.

Those fans refuse to look at much else besides the QB and the coach.

Let me point out a few things that really hurt this team folks. And it ain't the QB and the coach.

1. Terrible offensive line. Couldn't pass block or run block this year.
2. Deuce McAllister was injuried. For most of the year we had no running game to speak of. Teams were ignoring the run and just pinning their ears back.

Those 2 things hurt our offense more than ANYTHING else. And believe it or not folks, even the best of QB's struggle when the have no blocking. Not to mention no running game.

Everyone in this forum shoud be screaming at the top of their lungs for a true left tackle. And for someone to replace Victor (false start) Riely.

I just have to believe some fans aren't interested in the real problems.

Laugh it off if you want to folks. I just don't understand some of you guys. And to think, I used to think some of you were much more knowledgeable than that.

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...funny
... I don\'t understand why some people defend only one player or one coach in an internet forum no matter what...

.. I would expect that from... oh wait... :rollinglaugh:

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I agree that the only problem wasnt the QB and Coach. The offensive line was terrible for most of the season, the d-line and lbs coulndt stop the run most of the season, and the corners couldnt cover anybody for the first part of the season. Penalties were a killer this season, play calling was horrible, and slow starts are all a part of coaching and getting your players ready to play. So I think the coach was a problem, not the only problem but a problem. Your QB has to be a leader on the field as well as in the locker room. AB hasnt proven to be that leader that all good teams have to have. I think on most teams the people that get the majority of the blame and reconginition are the coaches and the QB\'s. I dont see any reason why it should be different here.

[Edited on 6/1/2005 by whodatsaintsfan26]

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Both our offensive line and Deuce were fine last year, so what was their excuse then?

EDIT: And yes, Riley needed to be replaced, but I\'ve always thought he was overrated. I don\'t wear blinders, I see what I see and call them on it, regardless of who it is.


[Edited on 6/1/2005 by BlackandBlue]

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No the whole team and coaching staff needs to look in the mirror and try to understand why they only seem to get passionate about playing football until their backs were against the wall. Case in point -- with our offense being outscored the way we were in the 1st quarter should have been impossible. Not scoring on our first drive once (you cannot call the TD runback scoring on our 1st possession). We played the season the same way we played the games. Someone woke up and said -- wait we cannot lose again. Now whose fault would that be -- my guess is the guys who are supposed to step up and make sure the team is ready to play would be the coaches and the QB. This is the area I think both let us down.

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It sure seems to me that most everyone around here feels the same way these days about all issues concerning the Saints... except for a few fans who are unwilling to ever blame the coach or QB for ANYTHING.

C\'mon Billy, do you know how transparent that is? If you\'re going to call me out, call me out.

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How many years have to go by without us making it into the playoffs before we can start blaming the coach and the QB.
If Haslett was coach for any other team he would have been gone a long, long time ago. I, personally, don\'t have that much of a beef with Haz, other than the fact that he is joined at the hip with AB. I feel that if he can\'t bring himself to give someone else a look-see, then he should be let go and maybe the next guy will let someone else see if he can get it done.

AB is a whole different story. He is not a very likable guy....to the fans or to his teammates. Some of the statements he has made over the years amaze me, and it seems very clear that he only cares about himself and not the team, or he wouldn\'t have dug the hole he presently finds himself in. I know he is talented, but there are plenty of people around with talent. We need a leader who is a team guy and will accept responsiblity for losses whether he feels it is his fault or not. I know it has been said many times, but it warrants repeating. It is the nature of the job...if the team fails and you are the starting QB, you will receive a lion share of the blame, as well as the head coach. It is no different here than any other place. If you can\'t take the heat, which AB doesn\'t seem to be able to do, then maybe you should move on, or, get out of the kitchen.

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LB - I agree completely. You\'re absolutely right. What disappoints me is that when certain member of this forum say what you just said, myself included, we get jumped on by others, mainly just b/c we made similar statements a long time ago. Nonetheless, you\'re spot on.

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Bravo Gator! Best post in two months. I\'m even going to have to pull out one of those dumb smiley faces for that one!!

:yourock:

[Edited on 7/1/2005 by WhoDat]

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Hay GumboBC,
as for your \"Terrible offensive line. Couldn\'t pass block or run block this year\" Duce was hurt early and was out most of the year. He came back and was out of shape. It happens after a layoff. D lines had nothing to respect at all. They just teed off. That\'s why your line was terrible. Yea a left tackle would be nice but a healthy Duce is better.

Now on to others:

\"Penalties were a killer this season, play calling was horrible, and slow starts are all a part of coaching and getting your players ready to play\" What a statement!!!! Wow he should be the next FOX star!!!! whodatsaintsfan26, That statment goes for the bottem half of the nfl. In short I think he means there\'s no leadreship on this team. This them needs leaders. And real leaders don\'t lead by example they lead peroid!

I agree changes need to happen. But I think it\'s more of the coaches that need to go. Ask most NFL anylist who has talent on ofence? New Orleans is up there. Where is our D? Not ranking. Rick V? Strong D? No D! N.O. has talent on D mostly on our D line but with MM it\'s getting better daily. All I can say is \"wait till next year\" yea right. Thanks for letting me waste your time. Oh by the way give me 1 dollar to pay for me being here. Whoops I\'m not Tom. Sorry I\'ll make it up on parking.

BTY
I\'m about half drunk so forget what I said. We\'ll just pay another tax to keep them here.

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Gumbo BC, I\'m guilty as charged! This is the first year that I bought season tickets, and driving an hour and a half 8 Sundays to see the garbage that I saw kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was venting, just as every other Saints fan has for years. I\'m still die hard and I will buy tickets for next year. To each his own.

P.S. Regarding Brooks, did you see who won second place in ESPN\'s top 20 worst plays of 2004? I think Brooks was robbed!

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Coming up short.... that seems to describe the Haslet era, IMO. The title of this post is: \"I just don\'t understand\". That\'s a great title, especially for this era of Saints football.

I just don\'t understand why there is any \"maybe\" in Haslet being replaced. It should be an absolute certainty. We\'re still sitting at .500 after all these years. I want better than .500 from my football club and I don\'t think that\'s an unreasonable expectation considering our players.

I just don\'t understand how some of the fans of the Saints think one good play makes up for a mediocre season. Last year, everyone crowed about the \"River City Relay\" as if that one play made the Saints 8-8 season something special. This year - we beat four losing teams down the stretch (including Atlanta\'s backups - I would call them a \"losing team\" if they played the rest of the league this year) after going 4-8. Why doesn\'t it occur to them that even with that streak, we JUST made it to .500 on the season?

I just don\'t understand why a \"Leon\" (from the Bud commercials) player who is the laughinstock among pro QBs in many profesional sportswriters\' stories and reports is still defended to the death - even when he makes regular bone-headed, rookie mistakes in his FOURTH year as full-time starter. This is doubly puzzling considering there has been NO QB controversy at the coaching staff\'s direction. At the very least, reality should assert itself and the obvious admitted. Is it so hard to accept that some other members of this board were right all along? How many PROFESSIONAL sport writers/commentators/former Superbowl QBs/etc have to call our QB out?

I just don\'t understand. That\'s a great title.

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Maybe we all misunderstood. Hey Billy, which fans were you talking about again?

Here\'s a list of THOSE fans so far in this thread alone.
Tobias-Reiper
whodatsaintsfan26
BlackandBlue
gatorman
4saintspirit
Saint_LB
BagHead
duece4pres
FrenzyFan

and, of course, me. In one of your other rants you said, as a cut at \"those\" fans - \"some people just never learn.\" I can think of only one or two people on this board who I now believe that statement accurately applies to. ;)

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WhoDat, I can\'t even get an honorable mention as one of \"those\" fans? Not cool. :weepy:

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We can sit here and blame EVERYTHING on coachnig and justify it. Afterall, it\'s the coach who put the players on the field ... it\'s the coach who hired the coordinators, and it\'s the coach who calls the plays. So... let\'s blame the coach for EVERYTHING.

Look guys, the coach deserves plenty of blame.

My point is that there\'s plenty of blame to go around. But there\'s a few select folks on here who talk only about the QB and the coach.

That\'s ignorant if ya ask me.

The refusal by some to hold the offensive line accountable and blame everything on Brooks is ignorant. Brooks deserves his fair share of blame. But not nearly to the extent that some want to pin on him. I just don\'t get some of you guys.

I really don\'t believe some of you want to talk about what the real problems are.

The refusal to talk about the terrible O-line and make excuses for them is clearly an attempt to place the blame on the QB.

Why not hold EVERYONE accountable?

Deuce played poorly for several games. Fumbled the ball away and played hurt.

The O-line led the league in false starts and couldn\'t block.

The defense was horrible for most of the season.

And Brooks played poorly in some games.

I don\'t blame Deuce entirely for his poor games and I don\'t blame Brooks entirely for his poor games.

Football, more than any other sport, is a TEAM game.

I can\'t say Haslett shouldn\'t be fired. You guys aren\'t wrong for wanting him fired. There\'s enough that\'s happen to justify his firing.

I just like what I saw the last 4 games and I want him back.

That doesn\'t make me wrong. It just puts me in the minority here.

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Billy,

I agree with you that ALL the blame should not fall on the coach and QB. However, I don\'t agree that the \"blame\" should be distributed evenly across the team - in fact, it appears no one here, yourself included, agrees with that.

There have been many good discussions on the board in the few weeks leading up to our last game regarding what the problem areas are.

So, instead of making these odd all or nothing claims, I\'m sure it would be better to assign blame in degrees. Here\'s my sample list, off the top of my head, but I\'m sure we can hash it out over the next few months:

1. O-Coordinator (Play calling and discipline) - 15%
2. D-Coordinator (Play calling) - 13%
3. Run stopping - 12%
4. Pass blocking - 11%
5. Run blocking - 10%
6. Head Coach (Discipline and Motivation) - 9%
7. Intermedate pass defense - 8%
8. Short passing game - 7%
9. Line backers - 6%
10. Offensive Line - 5%
11. Defensive Tackles - 4%
12. Front Office - 4%
13. Corners (until we got MM) - 3%
14. TEs - 2%
15. QB - 1%
16. Everyone else - 1%

I\'m sure this list needs some work, but it puts at least one point in perspective: when someone says that x or y is the biggest problem, they\'re not really making that big a claim. E.g. if my list is anywhere near close to correct, for the O-Coordinator (and his related duties) to be the biggest problem, he only needs to be 15% of the problem. If Haz is 10% of the problem, that is a BIG problem.

My current view on Haz is this: he seems to have shown that he is best suited to being a \"come from behind\" coach. We want to have a team (and perhaps do have a team) that is not an under-dog team - that, Haz, is not suited for yet. The last four games give us reason to understand HOW we won, given my thesis on Haz, but NO reason to be optimistic about his performance next year.

I think I agree with Gator\'s suggestion that we need a \"new face\" I believe is right. I do think Haz should step down. I don\'t think that the QB is a big problem at all - he is just the focus of peoples\' frustration, but on the whole is a serviceable QB for our team IMO.

Just so I can get this in there: all you guys who for the last two or three years who were saying that it is a FACT that Haz can\'t win in December need to rethink those kind of claims.

[Edited on 7/1/2005 by JKool]

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Put me at the head of the line. I am not shy about my disdain for Brooks, his inability to lead, to inspire, or to execute this team\'s game plan on any Sunday. He is inconsistent, sloppy, and generally lazy in getting it done. He had to \"get mad\" to be able to play at Charlotte. That is like dealing with a tired two-year old. This guy is supposed to be a Professional, for Gos sake. Coulda fooled me. All this crap about the O-line, the Coordinator, the this, the that, doesn\'t excuse Brooks from the fact that he appears to care for only one thing, himself. He, Randy Moss, Michael Vick (I\'m not really surprized that they are related), Rickey Williams, and others of that ilk are all about one thing: THEMSELVES!!! Yet, when anything like this is brought up on these forums you know that you will be jumped because of stupidity like: He\'s got great \"STATS.\"

I am vocal in wanting a number of changes made. First, get rid of Loomis, Mueller, McCarthy, Sheppard and Brooks. Second move Venturi to LB coach and hire either Singletary or Mills to D-Coordinator. Hire someone with an idea of randomness for an O-Coordinator, and get a QB who may be less talented, but more interested in what the TEAM does than how much he\'s going to make.

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Whoodi - No offense man, I know where you stand, I was just referring to the people who had responded to this thread.


Gator - Another great post from you - right on target again.


And on to Billy - I\'m going to ask you some simple questions based on your last post.

First of all, I wouldn\'t go calling people ignorant. More importantly, name one person who is doing this right now. Even I, the guy you have openly claimed is the biggest and most biased Brooks basher on this board listed the tackle positions as one of our biggest areas of need. The tackles are bad, and it\'s no surprise to some of us. Go read what was posted about Wayne Gandy after last season, and tell me wo posted it. Aaron Brooks DOES make it harder for a line to protect him. That\'s not to say that the line isn\'t bad, but Brooks DOES complicate things by holding the ball too long, rolling into blitzes, failing to read blitzes and find the hot route, etc. But NO ONE is blaming solely AB. Maybe the problem isn\'t the people who blame Brooks for his poor play - maybe the problem is the people who refuse to blame him for anything.

Again, who are these people? I\'ve been ranting about the GM, Scouting, Coach, DC, LBs, DT situation, safeties, O-line, TEs, and QB for weeks. What are the \"real\" problems Billy? Please tell us all, we\'re all interested in hearing how the expert thinks we should fix things again.

That\'s EXACTLY what you\'ve implied, suggested, insinuated, and flat out said numerous times. Shall I dig up quotes from the last WEEK?


Gator is absolutely right. You start these things by making bold statements and back-handed comments about others based on little more than a skewed opinion of what you think other people might be thinking. Then, when you\'re called out, you only argue your position more fiercely. If people agree with you, you polarize things. When no one agrees, you crawfish... just like you did in this thread. Think before you post.

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Chill out boys!

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You know, I\'m not really interested in what the majority of fans think. Listening to fans when it comes to making football decisions isn\'t always the smartest thing to do.

Fans let their emotions get in the way of their better judgement a lot of times.

First -- fans think they know more about the inner-workings of a football team than what they do. As opposed to the coaches and players who ACTUALLY KNOW what\'s really going on. I\'ll take my cues from the folks who actually play and coach.

Second -- Some of you guys have your own personal timetable for certain things to happen and when they\'re not met... it\'s hey, lets fire eveyone and start over. And you could be right. On the other hand, that might not be in the best interest of the team right now.

It\'s always BLAME THE COACH with some of you guys. You guys give all the credit to the coach when a team has a good season.

But when that same coach has a bad season. IT\'S NEVER THE COACHES FAULT!!!

Mike Holmgren led the Packers to TWO SUPERBOWLS. According to you guys, that makes Holmgren a GREAT coach.

Yet, in Seattle Holmgren can\'t win ONE SINGLE playoff game.

Why is that?

Is it....???

A. He forgot how to coach?
B. He doesn\'t want to win?
C. Just bad luck?

Or just maybe it\'s not his fault!!!

You guys are nuts if you think Holmgren is a bad coach. Or expalin to me how he got to the Superbowl TWICE!!??!!

Or explain how Shannahan has done very poorly after WINNING a superbowl!!??!!

I suppose Shannahan sucks too?

Or maybe it justs takes a while to get all the \"pieces\" in place.

Listen up folks -- Holmgren and Shannahan are both very good coaches. And guess what? They will both be back with their teams next season. And it\'s not because their owners are stupid.

It\'s because their owners are smarter than a lot of KNOW IT ALL FANSs who THINK they know the best way to run a football team!

Haslett is not alone in taking longer than what some fans want.

And you know what? That doesn\'t mean he\'s a bad coach.

I don\'t know what\'s going to happen next year, but it might just be the year. I can\'t guarantee anything.

But then again, neither can any of you.


Obviously Benson agrees with me. And that\'s all that really matters. NO?????

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Billy, point taken with respect to simply arguing a coach sucks on the grounds that he is not meeting certain fans\' timetables. However, good arguments have been presented, and they need to be considered.

I don\'t understand why you\'d participate on a fan page IF you think the only people who have anything to say are the coaches, owners, and players. Why bother with us?

Also, I don\'t think Benson\'s opinion is the only one that maters. That is like saying a CEO shouldn\'t listen to his senior staff or his customers! Yikes. That would be a sucky CEO.

Benson can get wrapped up in a personal timetable just as easily as fans. He can get just as confused by personal biases as the next guy. I don\'t see why you\'d think what he thinks matters so much?

As for Shannahan and Holmgren - yes, they are good coaches, but even good coaches can get in a rut and need a change of sceenery.

Don\'t take this the wrong way, since I often agree with you and I enjoy your posts (more than most it would seem), but I think you\'re letting yourself get sucked into something here on terms you wouldn\'t normally agree to.

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Jkool--

It\'s not that I think folks are wrong for wanting Haslett gone. Not at all.

It\'s that they refuse to be \"open\" to the notion that coaching might not be the problem. Maybe some of the personnel decisions weren\'t Hasletts. That sure seems to be a distinct possibility.

The bottom line is there could be things going on higher up in the organization that have caused problems.

And none of us really know what\'s been going on.

I don\'t like being told that firing Haslett is the only option that\'s going to work.

And I don\'t like close minded folks. There\'s no debating those guys.

They get a majority of folks who believe one way and it\'s pretty much closed for discussion!!!

I think you know how some folks on here will try to conience folks of anything.

Like... Haslett can\'t win in December. There was a majority on here trying to convience me of that too. And I couldn\'t prove them wrong then. But nevertheless it was silly!!

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I can think of one off the top of my head - a few others who let the pride of 4 wins at the end of another mediocre season overrule any sense of the bigger picture.

Nobody suggested that. I don\'t care if every player loves Jim Haslett. I know what I\'ve seen 16 weeks a year for the last 4, and that\'s not a good team. Joe Horn was outraged last year when his position coach was let go, wasn\'t he? Was his season this year better or worse than last year\'s? How about the defensive line - were they better or worse when a better coach was brought in?

You\'ve done that a few times before if I remember correctly. How has that worked out for you? I believe their propoganda prompted you to suggest that they would be 12-4 last year, with a top ten offense and a defense that got close to the top ten or even finished the season in the top ten.

Your logic is so circular. It\'s not Haslett\'s fault, it\'s the players. Those darn players (that Haslett brought in here, but nevermind that) just don\'t know what they\'re doing, or how to win, or whatever. But you know what, when it comes to this team, I\'m going to listen to those players! Did you listen to Enron executives too, b/c they knew more about what was going on than the average investor... right?

Personal timetable? You\'re damn right. I wanted to see this team start winning two years ago. I want change now, b/c the sooner the change is made, the sooner I can rekindle hope for something better than 8-8 and one game out of the playoffs. I guess I\'m just greedy... PS - can you name another active NFL head coach who hasn\'t made the playoffs in 4 years? You can\'t, b/c THERE AREN\'T ANY.

Well which is it? Do \"some of us\" always blame the coach, or the quarterback? It\'s the players? There have probably been 200 players to come and go in New Orleans over the last 5 years, and the team is still generally regarded as one of the most talented in the NFC, but they can\'t make the playoffs. You\'re right, Loomis and the Muellers brought in a bunch of bums, Haslett had no input on any of them, and he calls all the right plays every week, his team just doesn\'t execute.... oh, and it\'s not his responsibility to ensure that they execute properly either - that\'s not what head coaches do. Right.

You\'re still missing the point. I don\'t care if it\'s Haslett\'s fault or not. I personally think he deserves a decent amount of the fault and has to assume even more of it for not fixing other problems. Regardless, this team is mired in mediocrity - they remain undisciplined underachievers, wasting away talent with holes at the same positions that existed 4 and 5 years ago. That\'s not progress. Name one sign of progress on this team. The offense ranked in the top ten Haslett\'s first couple of years - this year was the worst during his tenure. The defense was nasty when he got here and led the league in stats like sacks and take-aways. This year they were dead last. Most importantly, year one - 10 wins, 2 playoff games, one playoff win. Last four years - no more than 9 wins, 0 playoff appearances. It\'s time for a change.

Sure it is. Who is saying it\'s not the coaches fault? I said Holmgren and Shannahan both deserve to get the boot. If they get slightly more slack, it\'s only b/c they\'ve proven they can win it all in the past, but I think both need to go. As did Wannstadt, probably two years ago, and Butchie up in Cleveland, and Ericson.

You keep generalizing, but you never point to any specific comments or name names, do you?

Really? Are fans happy in Seattle? In Denver? In New Orleans? Who are those owners\' customers? Who do they serve? The FANS!!! If the fans aren\'t happy the owners are failing. PS - Seattle and Denver both played in the playoffs this year - maybe that\'s why their coaches will be back.

Nobody is closed minded. All \"some fans\" ask for is proof. Faith is fine sometimes, but at some point you just have to prove it - to put your money where your mouth is. Haslett has only proven he CAN\'T get it done in the last 4 years. He\'s had 64 games to prove he can win - and he is exactly 32-32.



I don\'t understand how you can expect so little. If you bought a stock at 50, and it immediately dropped to 35, would you keep it? Maybe, if you believed it would rebound, that\'s not crazy. Especially if you listened to the CEO and other executives who laid out a good business plan for the company. But if 4 years later the company had tried 3 different business plans, and the stock was still exactly at 35, would you still hang on to it, or just cut your losses and look for a better investment? Most people I know would put there money somewhere else.


JKool - great post. You\'re right on.

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Do you hear that folks?

WhoDat doesn\'t care if Haslett\'s fault or not. WhoDat just wants Haslett gone and the hell with everything else.

Sorry, Whodat, that\'s just not good enough for me.

At least you admitted it, though.

There\'s really no use in debating your personal likes or dislikes. Huh??

And as far as Jake goes..

Hmmm.. Well, Jake had one of the best defenses in the NFL, a probowl reciever, a running back (Goings) who rushed for over 100-yards in every game except one.

Yet Jake could only muster 7 wins. Count \'em --- 1-2-3-4-5-6-7!!

Jake had everything he needed and couldn\'t get it done. His leadership didn\'t mean a thing --- BABY!!

It\'s hard for me to listen to WhoDat very much and put a lot of stock in it.

He\'s the same guy who tried to tell me that penalties did NOT kill drives !! How can you take things like that serious?

Now, he\'s the same guy who\'s telling me Haslett needs to go whether its his fault or not.

Instead of changing one of the cooridinators, he just wants Haslett gone. The hell with everything else. You heard WhoDat say it.

He\'s also the one who wanted the Saints to lose out the rest of the games.

How can you take him seriously?

He also said a while back that Donte\' was a bust and should be cut!!

He also wanted to cut Jay Bellamy!!

As a matter of fact, WhoDat has criticised every player on the team except for Deuce, Howard, and Grant.

WhoDat has never seen a potential cut he didn\'t like.

Seriously folks, how can you take that stuff seriously.

Coahing is VERY IMPORTANT. But it takes much more than coaching.

It starts with the front office making a commitment to win. I haven\'t seen that out of our front office.

We need to spend more $$$ in free-agency.

Now if you listen to WhoDat -- he\'ll lead you to believe Haslett doesn\'t want to go after some of the big name free agents.

According to WhoDat, Jim Haslett needs to go whether its his fault or not.

Don\'t make me take you out behind the woodshed again WhoDat!! ;)
If it were up to

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That\'s right Billy - Haslett should go. It IS Haslett\'s fault, but as I told Saintfan last year during the \"bad luck\" excuse debate, it really doesn\'t matter at this point. The guy isn\'t getting it done and it\'s time to go.

Here\'s what I find interesting. With Jake it\'s about wins b/c his stats are better. With Brooks, in the past, wins were irrelevant. It was about yards and TDs when his QB rating sucked. When his yards and TDs were down, you made it about his QB rating, which had been irrelevant the year before. And with Brooks, it\'s never been about wins and losses - it\'s a TEAM game, remember? But now, with Jake, it\'s about wins. LOL. You\'re about as consistent as the Saints.

They ranked 20th in total defense. TWENTIETH. Brooks hasn\'t had a Pro Bowl WR for 4 years in Horn or a much much better RB in Deuce, who rushed for 100+ in 9 straight games last year? Sure Billy - bottom line - Jake was a better QB this year in only his second year as a starter and in a new system than Brooks was after 4.5 years as a starter and 5 years in the system.

Typical misquotes - you know why you do that, b/c you can\'t find a complete quote of mine in context to prove anything. Shall I remind you that in that same debate you suggested that penalties hurt more than turnovers? Shall I just go get a quote to prove it?

Again, you just plain change my statements to try your best not to look foolish. I want them all gone - Loomis, Haslett, Venturi, and possibly McCarthy. Mike is the only guy who I think deserves further consideration.

Absolutely false. If anything, I\'ve said Stallworth\'s play needs to improve but under no circumstances should he be cut. But if I\'m wrong, find a quote and prove it. I dare you.

Really Billy, last week you said:

and earlier this season you said:

and before the season you said:

and after last season you said:


And you have the gaul to ask people how they can listen to me? Hang on BnGers... waint ten minutes and Billy\'s opinion will change again. By early next season he\'ll have Haslett pegged for coach of the year and suggested that he was always right about the guy. It\'s not hard to be able to say you\'re right when you take EVERY stance on something. LOL

LMAO!!! You\'ve argued with me about the draft and FA EVERY YEAR. After the Saints signed Orlando Ruff and Tebucky Jones in FA and drafted Sullivan you said this team would be a top ten defense!! Now you want to criticize my analysis? That\'s truly laughable.

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:whip:

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WhoDat--

Deny it if you want, but you specifically said penalties are not drive killers. There\'s plenty of folks here who will back me up on that!!

I don\'t blame Jake for the Panthers not making the playoffs. And I don\'t blame John Fox either. Unlike YOU, who blames everything on the QB and Coach.

And you blame the Panthers 20th ranked defense for their shortcoming? The Saints defense has never ranked as high as 20th!!

Brooks had a subpar season due in large part to a awful offensive line and no running game. And then there were the league high penalties our offensive line commited.

You don\'t think the increase in Brooks\' interceptions were largely due to having no time to throw? i.e. (poor blocking by the offensive line)

Brooks put up probowl numbers last year. 24TDs and only 7ints. And has put up good numbers every year. Even this year Brooks numbers weren\'t bad and he\'s not the reason we didn\'t make the playoffs.

You or anyone else will ever pull the wool over my eyes..

But, by all means, keep on trying!!

Brooks was partly right... He\'s played on bad teams!!!

This year he played behind the WORST offensive line in the league!!

I want to retool the offensive line WhoDat. How \'bout you??

Oh, and I told you last year our offensive line sucked at pass blocking. And they did!!

You have blamed Brooks for the poor play of the offensive line. And even blamed Brooks lack of leadership for the penalties by the O-line.

You see a pattern there, WhoDat? You blame everything on Brooks.

Penalites -- Lack of leadership from Brooks.

Dropped passes -- Brooks fault for leading the recievers into defenders.

Poor Blocking -- Brooks makes the O-line look worse then what they actually are!!

Poor Defense -- Brooks fault for not putting together drives!!

But, hey, WhoDat, let\'s cut Brooks!! That\'s the answer!!

If I listed all the guys you wanted to cut, we\'d only have 3 players left on this team.

You do see a pattern in your posts, right?

I just don't inderstand
 

Actually the Saints were 18th in the league last year. Something like 7th or 8th against the pass.

Actually it was 8 INTs and lest we forget the 14 fumbles and leading the league in turnovers. Just straightening out your \"facts.\"

I just don't inderstand
 

Actually Brooks didn\'t lead the NFL in turnovers. The QB for the Panthers had more last year.

Thanks for trying to straighten out the facts. Hey, at least you tried and I give you credit for that.

Thanks a bunch... :P

I just don't inderstand
 

Correct. 22 turnovers and a Superbowl trip for that guy in Carolina. 19 turnovers and bubkus for that guy in New Orleans last year. I have a hard time deciding whose hurt their team more. I stand corrected.

I just don't inderstand
 

Did you doubt he had more turnovers than Brooks? Hey,dude, if I tell you a rooster can pull a wagon.. Hitch that sucker up... :P

Yes, the Panthers went to the SuperBowl despite their QB leading the NFL in turnovers.

Just goes to show you how important the supporting cast is.

Hey, suppose Brooks might need a better supporting cast.

Umm.. hey, we didn\'t even lose one game after our defense started playing better. Imagine that!!

I just don't inderstand
 

Hi folks...

I just wanted to tell you guys that I\'m only messin\' around with WhoDat.

I\'m not really serious with WhoDat. Well, not nearly to the extent that it must sound.

He knows I\'m only playing ....

Anyway, I am breaking the rules.

I admit, it\'s VERY HARD for me to follow the rules when talking to WhoDat. He\'s my favorite member on here. Him and Gator. I suppose it\'s because we all know each other so well ..

But, it\'s been brought to my attention that I need to follow the rules with everyone. And I agree.

So, I apolojize for getting off track.

I\'m not going to bring up old topics just to prove a point. So, WhoDat, it ain\'t over, it\'s just changing a lil\' bit!!

I just don't inderstand
 

Ok, I don\'t get this thread anymore.

Billy wants to poop on the carpet and rub WhoDat\'s nose it.
WhoDat documents a lot of previous statements to rub Billy\'s nose in.

That part I get.

I don\'t understand why Billy keeps bringing the Carolina QB into the discussion? He\'s been gone 2 years and been to the superbowl, I\'m not sure why we are comparing him? It also seems that if the basic argument is: \"missing the playoffs, again, isn\'t Leon\'s fault\", then why are we being treated to a long discussion of Leon\'s statistics as compared to the Carolina QB?

I\'m confused. If Leon isn\'t the problem, then why are we talking at length about NOTHING but Leon?

I don\'t think that anyone on this board has decided to blame ONLY Leon and Haslett for finishing 8-8 this year. Quite a few areas of this team are troubled. But at the same time, I\'m not sure that, since it\'s a team sport (as so many like to mention so often to support this or that arugment), that Leon and Haslett can be absolved from any responsibility.

My biggest concern with Leon at present is simply this: his cap number and his future contract demands.

Looking at the other members of his QB class and cousin Mikey, we see.

1. McNabb gets a blockbuster contract for 10 years. Mucho dinero and prestige for Donovan.

2. Culpepper gets a blockbuster contract for 10 years. Mucho dinero and prestige for Daunte.

3. Vick gets a blockbuster contract for 10 years. Mucho dinero and prestige for Vick.

4. Leon--thinks he\'s a great QB, came out with 2 of those guys, is related to the other, has thrown for 3,000 yards and 20 TDs a year. Based on his last few interviews it almost sounds like Leon thinks he deserved a blockbuster deal of his own. If you want to talk about Leon, let\'s talk about that. I think we\'re going to get another holdout from him this summer.

We can analyze the postmortem of this season for the next several months, but honestly I\'d be quite happy not to discuss the Carolina QB as we try and figure out how to fix this team.

I just don't inderstand
 

What\'s funy to me, is that you still don\'t get the comparison I was making. You were trying to take pressure off of your boy Brooks for all his fumbles and shift it to the WRs and O-line. I said turnovers were worse, and you argued. On first down, if AB fumbles an airball pass and the defense recovers, the drive is over. If Wayne Gandy starts early on 1st down, making it 1st and 15, is the drive OVER? Is it impossible for the Saints to convert and keep the drive alive? DO you get it yet?

Thanks Billy, for putting words in my mouth again. Let\'s see if I can succeed at doing the same polarizing that you are an expert at. Of course you don\'t blame Delhomme or Fox, you never blame the COACH or QB for ANYTHING!!! Is that good? Oh, PS - you blamed Delhomme for the Panthers only having 7 wins in YOUR LAST POST.

Flippity Flop, Flippity Flop. LMAO.

Yes Billy, I know that. That\'s why I want Venturi gone more than anyone else, followed closely by Haslett - the defensive minded tough-love coach. Maybe if you read my posts instead of just telling me what you think I said, then you would realize that. I said the defense was the problem 3 years ago - you, on the other hand, suggested we\'d be top-ten last season.

Wait - wasn\'t this your excuse last year too? Last year he had no blocking and his WRs dropped everything. What changed this year? If anything, his WRs caught MORE balls.

Well this explains a lot. I cannot believe that you would even begin to defend his \"I\'m great, my team sucks\" comments. Congratulations, you are the ONLY person I\'ve seen ANYWHERE defend him for that - yeah Billy, looks like you know football.

Name ONE person other than Sullivan, and provide a quote. Don\'t just say I said something, b/c you either lie, have a skewed view of reality, or simply forget. Show me a quote.

That\'s not to say that there aren\'t players I think should be cut - but this is a little exercise to prove just how you say something once, then it becomes fact, then you polarize it to the point where there are only 3 players on this team I think are worthy of keeping. That is simply fiction - but if I\'m wrong, show me a quote.

In every one of my last few posts, I\'ve used YOUR OWN WORDS to show how you really feel. You have not used my posts b/c you can\'t. All you can do is make things up and claim that\'s what I said. As usual, you\'re wrong.



Oh... wait... it\'s been ten minutes... right. Hey guys, Billy and I are just joking around. We really agree on everything. LOL.

I just don't inderstand
 

Gator - yeah, I pointed that out earlier too. It\'s just funny.

It\'s not the coach or the QB, it\'s the PLAYERS. (Isn\'t the QB a player?)

Haslett can\'t MAKE them execute. (Isn\'t that his job?)

But WhoDat wants to cut all but 3 of them! (Well if it\'s their fault, then why is that bad?)

Clearly WhoDat doesn\'t know what he\'s talking about. The PLAYERS like Haslett and I\'m going to listen to them. (Wait, I thought it was their fault???)

Plus, coaching doesn\'t matter anyway. Like I said, it\'s the players! (Then why do you care is Haslett is fired?)


It\'s like Bizzaro world. It reminds me of the Iraqi Minister of Intelligence who claimed that there were no Americans in Iraq and that the Iraqis had driven them out of the country as the American tanks rolled into Baghdad behind him.

I just don't inderstand
 

:xxrotflmao: This is getting too good.