Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Exactly, the only reason we ever had a shot at Drew was because the conventional wisdom was that he was damaged goods.

Maybe a quality back-up will hit FA, but not a stud starter.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

You are directly relating Brees' contract to the decline of the offensive line. I say that is completely wrongheaded.

- Stinchcomb - Retired due to injury problems, what are you gonna do about that. It's not like Strief has been a big disappointment as his replacement.

- Nicks - Left because Tampa gave him a contact way over market value. He's barely played since then and didn't make their offensive line any better when he did. You cannot say with any reasonable thought that the Saints made a bad decision in letting him go.

- Goodwin - We had him on the cheap. It possibly was a mistake to let him go, but by the last year of his three-year deal with the Niners he was washed up, as he has been this season with the Saints. We just would've been complaining about him in 2013 instead of 2014. DLP was a fine replacement for a while, then regressed. Brees' contract had nothing to do with the decline in his performance.

- Evans - Chronic injuries have diminished him as a player. Again, I fail to see how Brees' contract is responsible for that.

- Bushrod - Was above average for us, but never a great pass blocker. Went to the Bears and is barely average for them. Is this the kind of guy Brees should take less money in order to keep? And we ended up replacing him with Armstead, who is already a better player than Bushrod ever was and has potential to be an elite tackle.


Frankly, I think if we had Lelito playing center instead of Goodwin this year, and had Armstead not gotten hurt, we are probably talking about our playoff matchup with the Cardinals right now. It's easy to ***** and moan about everything under the sun, but how about using your common sense and understanding it's not as simple as all that.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Thanks for the very condescending reply. Here are some 'common sense' facts for you

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Before I would extend Brees I would fix the line and if that is the problem then go from there with possibly extending. At least this way you get an answer and at least have a great O-line for Brees or another qb.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

It's a little frustrating to continue to see comments about Brees' contract amount. Take a look here:

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Brees' contract isn't the top QB contract in any category. The guy played for the Saints for 6 years on a contract he probably outplayed in the first year and definitely after the SB year without complaint. In 2012 $100 was the going rate for top tier QBs and is actually a bargain now. Then the current contract was a 3 year cap friendly soft start.

So Brees isn't obligated to restructure. The Saints can of course cut him and free up $12 million in cap ($14 million in dead money as opposed to $26 million in cap). Note that according to the details of his contract:

Drew Brees Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

Half of the $18 million salary becomes guaranteed. Likely this is on the 3rd day of the league year which is in the first week of February. That puts another $9 million on the cap that cannot be deferred.

Everyone has an agenda when it comes to contract time. It's now time for the Saints to pay the piper. That's the price of having by any measure an elite QB in the NFL.

SFIAH

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Maybe so, but this still doesnt answer my question.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

You still haven't explained how Brees' contract is solely responsible for the decline of the offensive line, which was your original supposition.

It's especially stupid when you consider the fact (and this is an ACTUAL FACT, not some bull**** uninformed opinion like the half-witted ones you've been spouting) that 2 of our top 7 contracts and 3 of the top 11 ARE OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

Here's your sign....

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Please let me know specifically which facts I posted you deem as half-witted. It is one thing to be an opinionated ass and insult others for also voicing their views, and quite another to actually back up what you are saying.
To recap, I wrote that we have downgraded 3 OL positions since Brees' deal: Bushrod for Brown, Nicks for Grubbs, and Goodwin for DLP. Nowhere do I say he is solely responsible, but the fact remains our line has been in a steady decline since 2012. If we had the money, we would have kept those players. Period

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Completely Disagree.

A few points.

First, Nicks was an All-Pro Guard who had not missed a game as a Saint; so as one of the two best guards in the league he is the top of the food chain so he was going to get a max contract...

Second, Nicks was an unrestricted free agent at the same time Brees was; Brees Camp made it clear he was seeking a max contract - so something had to give

Source: Report: Carl Nicks “expected to leave” New Orleans in free agency | ProFootballTalk

Third, Loomis' failed logic then went out and signed Grubbs, who has grossely underwhelmed, at the number he sought to sign Nicks probably thinking he wouldn't affect the level of that unit and still get his numbers he wanted - fail.

Source: New Orleans Saints replace Carl Nicks with OG Ben Grubbs - ESPN

Concession: the Nicks signing was a completely bust for the Bucs as Nicks contracted a staph infection while there which the Bucs ended up agreeing to a settlement - but that's on the Bucs for not maintaining a healthy environment for the invested athletes they've got under contract.

Source: Third Tampa Bay Buccaneers player tests positive for MRSA staph infection - ESPN

So to say that Brees contract has nothing to do with the decline in the roster quality, whether maintaining an elite unit or being able to improve it is naive, even foolhardy...

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

You are neglecting to mention that Nicks already had the bad foot before he even left. He got the MSRA as result a foot surgery, which was needed because he had a history of chronic injury history there. That was no secret. There were also rumors that he was not the best guy in the locker room even then - not totally farfetched considering we got him in the fourth round of the draft on similar concerns.

You are also neglecting to mention that we had plenty of space to sign Nicks if we had wanted to. Loomis/Payton/whoever makes these decisions decided he wasn't worth what he was demanding. You are also neglecting to mention that Brees cap hit in 2012 was only 10.4 million, and you are also neglecting to mention that the Saints had well more than the $3 million cap space that would have been needed to re-sign Nicks instead of going out and getting Grubbs. And in that scenario, you would kiss any chance of getting Curtis Lofton goodbye. IIRC we also had to sign Colston that year and an extension for Greer.

You can call that a mistake if you want but it has nothing whatsoever to do with being handcuffed by Brees salary. Those are personnel decisions, plain and simple. Blaming Brees contract for the offensive line's decline in performance 3 years later is just flat out simplistic thinking and quite frankly, kind of retarded.

I am kind of disgusted by people calling out Brees for being selfish. He has done more for the Saints and the town than any other player and perhaps any other person in franchise history. He deserves every penny he has gotten and more. Going after him for being selfish is just childish and shows a severe lack of brainpower, for all the reasons I have pointed out in this thread and many more which I'm sure we are not privy to because we are not in the front office and locker room every day.

I need to step away from this board for a while because people are just getting absolutely ridiculous with all this crap. I'm embarrassed for some of you, I really am.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

I really figure we are going to have to do this in the draft where their rookie contracts are much cheaper. Our Tackles are good enough although Strief is getting up there in age but Armstead is good to go. We could go after 2 gaurds and go with Lelito between 2 young studs or keep Grubbs and go with a 1 stud C and 1 stud G in the draft. I love Evans but I do feel he's done. There are a few ways to build this line to be strong like we are use to seeing but it might get done in a year but with Grubbs contract being up next year I figure 2 years to be honest. It's a possibility Grubbs takes a paycut but he has played well so there is no gaurrantee he would. We do need at least 2 O-lineman drafted this year. Why the he!! Loomis and Payton have neglected drafting for the O-line I will never know. Brees contract doen't bother me as much as the Graham contract, we could be sitting good on the O-line with his money going into it and he is injury prone to boot. I think it was a terrible contract to begin with.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Don't feel embarrassed for me.
You have used the words "half-witted", "stupid, "retarded", and "simple" in your posts, and suggested I use my common sense.

You should step away and look up the words "decorum", "appropriate" and "etiquette".

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

I call 'em like I see 'em. Deal with it. Or keep *****ing and moaning about Brees contract like a 12-year-old girl on her first bout of PMS. Makes no difference to me, but you're only making yourself look simple-minded.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

That's totally wrong, why would Tampa have agreed to an injury settlement regarding the MRSA and injury?!?

Read post and sources.

And in so far as rumors, cite sources. Because what I've read, that's totally wrong.

Source: Saints to face former teammate Carl Nicks - FOX 8 WVUE New Orleans News, Weather, Sports, Social

Now Nicks had a bad rap out of college and that's why he fell to the fifth, but he got right with the Saints.

Source: Wikipedia - Carl Nicks

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Its 2012 you have just broke one of the longest standing records in the NFL on one of tge best offenses the league has seen. Not to meantion winning a superbowl three years before. Your agent has just got Peyton Manning who has never threw for more yards and has the same number of rings and is coming of a injury that meant he could easily never play again a $19.2ml a year deal. Who wouldn't expect the biggest deal in league history?.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

You may be completely right about the foot injury and I may be completely wrong and misremembering things. I was sure he had a history of turf toe.

The point is, regardless, that it's reasonable to assume Nicks had some red flags at the time that made Loomis hesitant to give him the huge contract. With Brees' cap hit that year only being 10.4 million it would've been a cake walk for Loomis to give Nicks a front-loaded contract worth big dollars, but he decided not to.

We can speculate why not until the world ends, but we had plenty of cap space at the time so you can't blame it on Brees and his "selfish contract" no matter how you slice it.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Well is so far as the comments of "retarded", "severe lack of brainpower" that's pretty funny considering you are unable to substantiate or produce one link to corroborate your arguments, especially those rumors you alleged...

Before you start trying to personalize and insult which usually hasn't been characteristic of your posts, you may want to pause and look at the thread...

In so much as blaming Brees, it's naive to say his salary and the percentage of the salary cap it consumes has no bearing on other personnel decisions...

No one has questioned his contributions to the Saints success and it's impact on the city's morale - some simply question why a max deal that takes away from the team's ability to maintain or improve the roster which counteracts the very success Brees has been a part of building to this point...

And if he wanted to maximize his monetary gain, there are other revenue streams outside of the Salary/Salary Cap domain, namely Endorsements, that are even more lucrative (especially for SuperBowl Winning Quarterbacks)...

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

The team could easily havr kept Nick with a back loaded deal or let Colston walk etc.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

I will cop to being kind of an ******* in this thread, it's not the first time and it won't be the last.

But I stand by my points. Remember we were talking about the offensive line in an isolated sense here. I still point out that 3 of the biggest contracts on the team are offensive linemen. You can't look at that fact and then say we haven't devoted significant dollars to the offensive line.

You can certainly argue those dollars weren't spend as efficiently as you might hope, but that has nothing to do with Brees contact, it has to do with personnel decisions being made by SP, Loomis, scouts, etc. That is why I say blaming Brees' contract is simple-minded. There are far too many other variables to consider. Will Smith was overpaid and underproduced for years. Ditto for Harper and even guys like Colston and Moore to a smaller degree. I don't see anybody bringing that up, but it surely affected spending in other areas which brings us to the present day. I would certainly rather have Brees performing at an elite QB level for $20 million a year than I would watching fat lazy Will Smith get 5 sacks a year for $10 million or watching Harper trying to cover tight ends for $5 million, or Moore to be injury-prone for another $5 million. We got to watch Brees punch his Hall of Fame ticket for a market-level contract and only now after a kind of bad year can we consider him "overpaid." I'll take that trade-off over a lot of the alternatives.

Apologies to all for the unkind words, I been having a crap week. That doesn't mean I'm not right though.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

I agree with your sentiment. Blaming Brees and his contract for the decline of the Saints is an easy way to absolve the front office for its lack of foresight. Brees's contract was a looming issue for three seasons before he became a free agent. Either the front office didn't care or they were naive in their belief that Brees would not seek market value. Even in seeking that value, Brees gave them a very flexible deal in the first three years. These last two are the paying of the piper.

What the front office should have done was in the season following the Super Bowl, they should have offered to renegotiate with Brees and pay him more in the final years of his previous deal in exchange for some guaranteed years at a lower cost in the future. They chose to ride out the deal he signed when he first came to New Orleans and in return have to deal with that now and in the future. That isn't Drew's fault, it's on the front office for its lack of either foresight (which I doubt) or concern.

Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees
 

Thr front office approached Brees about a new contract in 2011. Bress and his agent said no, they'd rather wait until 2012.