Argument against this?

halloween 65 · 04-13-2015, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

Under Loomis/Peyton the Saints seldom trade down, most times they trade up

And that has been the problem, trading out of 13 statigically could net us another player in the mid 2nd to early 3rd where there will still be value players to be had. Each year it is like a feeding frensy at certain positions then another and so on. If we are in a position in the top 3 rounds with two 1st say 25 and 31 and now sitting on two 2nd and two thirds with multiple picks in the 5th thru 7th we will be able to manuever to whatever player we choose or set up multiple picks for next season, thats how the Patriots do each year to fill needs. Even at 44 a team wanting a player will give their 1st next year repeat the process next season and so on. The Patriots are smart and in contintion every year because of solid players using the draft to their advantage.

ChrisXVI · 04-12-2015, 09:58 PM

You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44.

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44.

That's a good possibility too

SmashMouth · 04-13-2015, 08:38 AM

As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft.

So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick.

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft.

So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick.

How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

SmashMouth · 04-13-2015, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

In reverse order:
SP
Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out
Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust
Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust
Hazbeen
Jammal Brown - Did not get value
Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust
Charles Grant - Did not get value
Mike Ditka
Ricky Williams - Did not get value
Chris Naole - Did not get value

Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plenty of head scratchers in that list...

blackangold · 04-13-2015, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

In reverse order:
SP
Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out
Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust
Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust
Hazbeen
Jammal Brown - Did not get value
Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust
Charles Grant - Did not get value
Mike Ditka
Ricky Williams - Did not get value
Chris Naole - Did not get value

The sad part is we didn't need to trade up for any of the Payton picks.

Cooks would have fell to us, Ingram would have dropped to the second round and Ellis may have fallen to us as well.

I don't mind that they trade up for players, but they have done a piss poor job at scouting players which has forced them to make piss poor picks overall including the trades.

Ingram and Cooks could still pan out to be great, but the point is we could have had them without moving up.

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

In reverse order:
SP
Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out
Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust
Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust
Hazbeen
Jammal Brown - Did not get value
Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust
Charles Grant - Did not get value
Mike Ditka
Ricky Williams - Did not get value
Chris Naole - Did not get value

Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plenty of head scratchers in that list...

Oh dude I don't care about past coaches. I am talking about SP.

Cooks the jury is out on, and how many spots did we move for that? Couple???

Ellis, ub yeah, dude was terrible.

MI would feel better had we got him in second, unless this season matches last season

So really ellis is the comparable to this year. Cause that is what we'd be doing, moving to like 6 or 7. I guess I am thinking Scherrf won't be there when we select and i'd like to get that dude

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

In reverse order:
SP
Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out
Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust
Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust
Hazbeen
Jammal Brown - Did not get value
Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust
Charles Grant - Did not get value
Mike Ditka
Ricky Williams - Did not get value
Chris Naole - Did not get value

Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plenty of head scratchers in that list...

Brown was good for us. I hav no probs with that pick, and grant was too.

hagan714 · 04-13-2015, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

In reverse order:
Mike Ditka
Chris Naole - Did not get value

Naeole missed only one game in his 11 years as a pro, started 150 of 154. till his career ending injury.

Stupidest thing we ever did at the guard position back then was letting him walk in 2002. LeCharles Bentley was drafted in round 2 to fill his spot. so we spent a 1st and a second by 2002 to fill one spot an in the end Bentley was at center. So we had to go find yet another player to fill the guard position. Montrae Holland in 2003 in the 4th. next up Jahri Evans in 2004. and so on

Bentley and Naeole would have solved so many issues for years on the OL.

typical Jim Haslett move.

I still like the pick today. some times longevity and solid play on the interior lines out weigh pro bowls

04-13-2015, 06:28 AM	#1
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 Under Loomis/Peyton the Saints seldom trade down, most times they trade up And that has been the problem, trading out of 13 statigically could net us another player in the mid 2nd to early 3rd where there will still be value players to be had. Each year it is like a feeding frensy at certain positions then another and so on. If we are in a position in the top 3 rounds with two 1st say 25 and 31 and now sitting on two 2nd and two thirds with multiple picks in the 5th thru 7th we will be able to manuever to whatever player we choose or set up multiple picks for next season, thats how the Patriots do each year to fill needs. Even at 44 a team wanting a player will give their 1st next year repeat the process next season and so on. The Patriots are smart and in contintion every year because of solid players using the draft to their advantage. TwistedTiger likes this.

04-12-2015, 09:58 PM	#2
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: Argument against this? You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44. saintsfan1976 and RaginCajun83 like this.

04-13-2015, 07:04 AM	#3
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by ChrisXVI You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44. That's a good possibility too

04-13-2015, 08:38 AM	#4
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,022 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Argument against this? As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft. So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick. halloween 65 likes this.
	Last edited by SmashMouth; 04-13-2015 at 08:48 AM..

04-13-2015, 09:09 AM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft. So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick. How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

04-13-2015, 12:26 PM	#7
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth In reverse order: SP Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust Hazbeen Jammal Brown - Did not get value Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust Charles Grant - Did not get value Mike Ditka Ricky Williams - Did not get value Chris Naole - Did not get value The sad part is we didn't need to trade up for any of the Payton picks. Cooks would have fell to us, Ingram would have dropped to the second round and Ellis may have fallen to us as well. I don't mind that they trade up for players, but they have done a piss poor job at scouting players which has forced them to make piss poor picks overall including the trades. Ingram and Cooks could still pan out to be great, but the point is we could have had them without moving up.

04-13-2015, 12:27 PM	#8
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth In reverse order: SP Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust Hazbeen Jammal Brown - Did not get value Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust Charles Grant - Did not get value Mike Ditka Ricky Williams - Did not get value Chris Naole - Did not get value Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Plenty of head scratchers in that list... Oh dude I don't care about past coaches. I am talking about SP. Cooks the jury is out on, and how many spots did we move for that? Couple??? Ellis, ub yeah, dude was terrible. MI would feel better had we got him in second, unless this season matches last season So really ellis is the comparable to this year. Cause that is what we'd be doing, moving to like 6 or 7. I guess I am thinking Scherrf won't be there when we select and i'd like to get that dude

04-13-2015, 12:29 PM	#9
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth In reverse order: SP Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust Hazbeen Jammal Brown - Did not get value Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust Charles Grant - Did not get value Mike Ditka Ricky Williams - Did not get value Chris Naole - Did not get value Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Plenty of head scratchers in that list... Brown was good for us. I hav no probs with that pick, and grant was too.

04-13-2015, 08:51 PM	#10
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth In reverse order: Mike Ditka Chris Naole - Did not get value Naeole missed only one game in his 11 years as a pro, started 150 of 154. till his career ending injury. Stupidest thing we ever did at the guard position back then was letting him walk in 2002. LeCharles Bentley was drafted in round 2 to fill his spot. so we spent a 1st and a second by 2002 to fill one spot an in the end Bentley was at center. So we had to go find yet another player to fill the guard position. Montrae Holland in 2003 in the 4th. next up Jahri Evans in 2004. and so on Bentley and Naeole would have solved so many issues for years on the OL. typical Jim Haslett move. I still like the pick today. some times longevity and solid play on the interior lines out weigh pro bowls
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 04-13-2015 at 09:01 PM..

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