What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Yep, against my better judgement, I'm starting a Brooks' thread!!

First: In all likelyhood, Brooks will be the starting QB for the Saints next season.

Second, not nearly enough folks talk about the positives of Aaron Brooks.

And third, Brooks has proven he can take us to the playoffs and win!!!

Lots of folks say we're at a disadvantage with Brooks having to learn a new system. (Even though we might still use the same or close to the same system)

But, let's say we do go to another system.

Remember it was Brooks who took us to our only playoff victory in his first year in the "system".

Granted he free-lanced a lot a made more plays with his legs.

Well, I - for one - want to see more of that. I think that's a plus.

Hopefully, a new offensive coordinator will demand that. Not that I want Brooks to do a Mike Vick impersonation. I'd just like to see more of it from Brooks.

That is all .... for now!!

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Positives
1. I\'m positive our problems on offense are NOT entirely Brooks\' fault.
2. I\'m positive he is a decent QB.
3. I\'m positive we need a change of identity.
4. I\'m positive replacing Brooks will change our identity.
5. I\'m positive we better have a QB just as good as AB if we do let him walk.
6. I\'m positive many will be happy, and many won\'t.
7. I\'m positive we\'ll hear \"I told you so\" no matter what happens.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

LOL...

There\'s only one thing I\'m positive of.

And that is this thread will quickly start to deteorate just as soon as some folks read it...


Anyone wanna bet on that?? :P

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

1. Agreed
2. I\'d rank him on the + side of decent
3. Agreed
4. Agreed, but there are a lot of things that can be done to accomodate an identity change, and a new OC is one of \'em.
5. Agreed and I\'m not sure who that would be since I don\'t subscribe to the \"anybody but Brooks\" theory that\'s so popular around here.
6. Agreed
7. I\'d probably be one of \'em. LOL

:soleil:

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

I suppose your definition of deterioate is to disagree.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Oh contraire monfraire !!!

Just the opposite. But sooner or later the \"Leon\" reference will get tossed in or one of those other silly comments and no good discussion will come of this thread.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

That leaves the field pretty wide-open. Gumbo (the mascot) could probably fill that requirement!!

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

[/quote:132e6a519b]
But sooner or later the \"Leon\" reference will get tossed in or one of those other silly comments and no good discussion will come of this thread. [/quote:132e6a519b]

If you knew that going in, then why start the thread to begin with. Hasn\'t this horse been beaten enough. There are those of us that think enough is enough, and the only way that he, and not you, is going to shut us up is to stop making underhand passes that get intercepted for TD\'s, stop throwing backwards to linemen, stop having butterfingers, stop killing drives in the red zone, and bring us back to the playoffs. All the positive talk in the offseason is just that...talk. Most of us are in favor of positive production, and not a bunch of promises from die-hard Brooks fans that fade into oblivion by the end of the season.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

at the beginning of the season i was huge brooks supporter. now im not ready to see him leave yet this year. i dont think this year we can get anyone better. he ahs the ability to be a very good qb. but he has to mature and lead this team. i never knew how much of a lack of a leader he was until his comments right before the last game. if he cant change that then eventually he has to go. but for now we need him for one more year. in my opinion.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Agreed all around LB. \"I\'ll start a thread I know some will disagree with and call them out on it BEFORE they ever post.\" Classic. And I wonder why most have bothered not to respond. Hhhmmm

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

But sooner or later the \"Leon\" reference will get tossed in or one of those other silly comments and no good discussion will come of this thread. [/quote:978f004470]

If you knew that going in, then why start the thread to begin with. Hasn\'t this horse been beaten enough. There are those of us that think enough is enough, and the only way that he, and not you, is going to shut us up is to stop making underhand passes that get intercepted for TD\'s, stop throwing backwards to linemen, stop having butterfingers, stop killing drives in the red zone, and bring us back to the playoffs. All the positive talk in the offseason is just that...talk. Most of us are in favor of positive production, and not a bunch of promises from die-hard Brooks fans that fade into oblivion by the end of the season. [/quote:978f004470]

Here we go....

I don\'t care how many times you call him Leon. And I don\'t care what else you say about Brooks.

Doesn\'t bother me in the least. And, guess what? It doesn\'t affect my paycheck or my life.

It\'s just that foolish comments are just that.... FOOLISH!!

Just because folks are going to make foolish comments about Brooks isn\'t going to keep me from talking about Brooks.

Now, if you have any thing to add to the topic, please do so.

Cause I\'m done defending WHY I talk about Brooks.

If you disagree.... that\'s fine. ;)

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Personally, I think you are just into starting threads, and the more responses, the better. Since a lot of your more recent threads seemed to die before they got very far off the launching pad, then you decided that maybe it is time to go back to the AB card. That is the last thing I will say regarding this topic, because you don\'t really care if somebody agrees or disagrees, you just want responses....so, no more from me.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

It\'s threads like these that really makes me shake my head at you people. I find it very difficult to believe that so many of you can honestly talk in absolutes about Brooks like you do.

For those of you thinking he needs to leave YESTERDAY, what is it about his STATS that makes you believe that a minor adjustment to his game-management or leadership skills wont turn him into a winner? He does put up good stats and at times seems dominant. How can you be so sure that he\'ll never mature into a great starter ala Rich Gannon (albeit only for a short time). (btw, saying he wont and then his actually not doing it doesn\'t make you a great prognosticator. It\'s a 50-50 question and being right one way or the other isn\'t all that impressive.)

For those of you thinking he\'s the QB of the future, what is it about his bumbling that makes you believe he can do anymore than just post stats? You\'ve seen other QBs put together lesser seasons stats-wise but seem to carry their teams to wins. Doesn\'t brooks seem to lack that \"gamer\" mentality or is missing the \"it\" factor?

My point is that there are a lot of questions surrounding AB. Nobody can say with absolute certainty that he will or will not lead this team to the playoffs in \'05. Certainly there is room for discussion as to the best way to deal with this unknown, i.e., Should we trade him or should we keep him?

I just wonder how so many people can be so adamant that they are right about him even though there are so many questions and possibilities.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Scotty is right. While I do beleive in Brooks, I don\'t know he can get it done. And there are questions in my mind if he will ever have that season I want him to.

Simply put, I\'m not sold that Brooks WILL get it done.

I used to be and I still have MUCH faith in Brooks.

I have NO problem with those who criticize Brooks. NONE!

As far as I\'m concerned, it\'s all open to discussion when it comes to Brooks. That wasn\'t always the case with me.

I\'ve learned. Took a while but I learned.

[Edited on 28/1/2005 by GumboBC]

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Well, that didn\'t take long, did it ... ?

Indeed ... I think we\'re all seeing the light ...

Aww Billy, you gotta admit it\'s pretty funny...

\"Let\'s face it ... Leon can\'t do everything ...\"

LOL ... we\'ll see about that ... ;)

Oops, think you messed that up already ...

:P

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

after the budweiser commercials i actually found the leon take quite hilarious, no vendetta. i do think he is an incredible mixed bag- world of talent never reaching potential, overall average, some moments of brilliance but just as many looking like a complete bust. i do think the odds are we will be stuck with him for another season and i will hope for the best. but it is only that, hope, no faith, no confidence. since the season ended what has lured me into dreaming or hoping he might be gone is the money. for 6mil and more yrs of commitment i think if we cannot do better, more than just hope, we wont do worse with less money to a hasslebeck or holcombe type. personally i preferred the days of solid defense with a ho-hum qb like hebert. after the debacle of the defense this past year coupled with the schizophrentic offense with so much potential and such erratic performance, consistency would be welcome. i\'m tired of the end season flourishes or flop roller coaster rides. i think the ravens are the antithesis: boring consistent offense with top D. no playoffs either. i just like the odds of having defensive strength. and we ain\'t even talking that here, just get to midrange/average D and minus AB there is still enough fire power with a journeyman to contend. 2 cents.

[Edited on 29/1/2005 by LKelley67]

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

well, according to brooks\' ego there is no qb better than him...

and there is no chance of him running since you have got to have some courage to run, no happy feet like ol jim everett....

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

That\'s a strange comment. AB has plenty of courage to run. I saw it in the Cards\' game when he tried to run it in from around 15 yards out and got POPPED when he got to the goal line. He knew he was gonna take a big hit. Also in the 2nd Tampa game. We wouldn\'t have won that game if it weren\'t for his running. I think the reason he doesn\'t take off as much as he did in 2000 is because of the lame West Coast style offense that McCarthy tried to implement. That and he probably invests alot of faith in his receivers. But the receiving corps have argueably been the most inconsistent aspect of this team for the past 4 seasons, so that faith may be misplaced.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

I\'ve been carping about that for months, too. I\'d like us to pick up a reliable journeyman and spend the money we\'d recoup by dealing AB on defense and the O-line.

But the \"well, who are we gonna get if we deal Brooks\" crowd ain\'t hearing it. No matter who you mention - especially a journeyman-type (Kitna, Dilfer & Maddox are some usual suspects) - they\'re gonna bash, or simply ignore, it.

Sadly, Brooks isn\'t really better than most any journeyman we could pick up. He\'s just more expensive. Why not deal him while he\'s still young (and great, according to him) and save a little cash to build elsewhere?

Seems rational enough to me...

:shrug:

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Beyond rational mutey. But some are still waiting for the bulb to click on for this dim-wit\'s talent, and it ain\'t happening. We could get one of those qbs for half what AB makes and get the same results. I don\'t see how that is bad. But when AB says he is great, I guess he gets people to believe that. Ship the bum, spend the money elsewhere, draft a young qb to sit for a year.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

I don\'t like being lumped together like that. I\'m against just bringing in any other QB because I see them as a step backwards. But, if you\'re going to state that these guys are lesser QBs and that\'s ok with you cuz you want to put money elsewhere, I can accept that. I\'m not in favor of that idea because you\'re assuming that just because you spend the money on D, then you\'re going to have a better D. See Washington as an example of NOT.

Well, opinions vary as to Ab\'s effectiveness, but then again, I haven\'t seen these guys putting up AB type numbers over the last 4 years. Like I said above, if you\'re willing to take a step backwards at the QB position in order to bulk up on D, that may very well be a good plan. It is risky though. Remember who is still the DC.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

AB type numbers? They don\'t have AB type talent around them. I\'ll take our receiving corps over any of theirs. I\'ll take Deuce over any of their rbs. I am sure if they had AB\'s offensive team around them, they could put up \"AB type numbers.\" And take better care of the ball. I have yet to see any of those guys with a 20 yard backwards PASS to a lineman. I haven\'t seen any rookie do that yet, not even Carr on his first year with the Texans when he was MAULED for about 72 sacks. So I guess it\'s frustrating when a FIFTH YEAR STARTER makes dumb ass plays rookies DON\"T make. Did Eli do that this year with worse receivers, worse line, and worse RBs? Nope.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Among other reasons, I cringed when he did that cuz I knew it\'d be fodder for the AB haters all offseason. Hey, it was a boneheaded play. Certainly not the first in the NFL and not the last. I\'d give good money to see you being closed in on by 3 or 4 angry, 300+ lb defenders and see someone with your colors, who is supposed to be protecting you, just standing there watching...I\'d throw it at him too. And wouldn\'t you know it...Gandy can\'t catch EITHER. :P

Maybe. I didn\'t watch all of every Giants game. A worse line? Hardly. They sucked, I\'ll admit, but please tell me you don\'t think our line was the pinnacle of o-line greatness.

A wrose RB? Isn\'t Barber in the Probowl? Deuce is gonna have to buy his own ticket to hawaii this year.

Worse WRs? I don\'t even know who NYG has at WR anymore, but if it\'s still Hilliard and Toomer, I \'d like to see any two of our WRs matched up with their numbers. And considering they were being thrown to by a rookie and Blah Warner all year, if the NYG WRs didn\'t do better you can look there.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

So Scotty, basically you would take Toomer over Horn and Hilliard over Stallworth? Holy crap. I don\'t think I can even go on. Wow. Wow. I am at a loss for words on that one.

As for their line, do you know the reason Eli started? Cause with the Giants upcoming schedule, they were afraid Warner would get killed cause of the sacks. Sounds like a good O-line to me. Please. Name one player on their line. They are worse than ours, easily. Sorry, can\'t get in line with either of those.

And had Deuce not gotten hurt, he very well could have been in the pro bowl. So are you also saying you would take Barber over Deuce? I sure as hell wouldn\'t. Never, in any scenario. But I shouldn\'t be shocked since you like their receivers better than ours. That is absoulutely shocking, I gotta be honest. Not even on Madden could they be better. Yikes.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Not an attack, Scotty, but just to illustrate how truly horrible the Giants passing game was this year:

Jeremy Shockey led the team in receiving TD\'s with 6. Tiki Barber was second with 2. Starting WR\'s Amani Toomer and Ike Hilliard combined for 0 TD\'s all season. That\'s right ... none! Don\'t get much worse than that.

The entire Giants team had only 12 receiving TD\'s all season. In contrast, Joe Horn alone had 11 TD\'s. Donte Stallworth had 5. Boo Williams somehow managed 2.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

whether inclined to say stay or go all will probably agree on erratic. some raw talent counterbalanced by bone headed blundering. my beef isnt how good or bad but the performance for the dollar. he is getting star pay if not premier with only journeyman performance. the closest peer in performance the past five years i found is jay fielder (the all bland version of average). passer ratings: fielder- 66,79,65,91,84 brooks- 85,76,80, 88, 79
just for kicks, culpepper (who fumbles a lot too)on a similar underachieving, erratic, porous defense team- 98,83,75,96,110. with all the failings of the vikes i venture to guess you would not find anywhere near the negative sentiment about him. numbers aside anyone with football acumen can see he is doing his part whether the team was 6-10 or 11-5.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Having read Scotty\'s posts for a while now, I can tell you he\'s one of the fairest guys I know when it comes to debating ANY topic.

Scotty is far from being an AB worshiper!!

There\'s really NOTHING you can say to some folks about Brooks that\'s going to make any difference. They just hate him. And that\'s all it is too it.

The offensive line was awful. Doesn\'t matter though. Any QB would have done better than Brooks.

Our running game ranked 26th in NFL. But that makes no difference. Any QB could have done better.

We had the WORST defense in the NFL. That makes no difference though. Any QB would have done better.

Let\'s see...

1. Worst defense in the NFL.
2. One of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.
3. 26th ranked running game.

But Brooks was the problem.

Does that add up?

To some it does.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

OK, their o-line was so bad their they were afraid Warner would get killed so they put in their QB of the future? That makes sense. Like I said, I was pretty sure their o-line was horrible, but that doesn\'t mean ours wasn\'t either. In fact, I know it was. I thought they sucked in the preseason and they continued to suck during the season. How many Giants fans can name one of our o-lineman?

I also said that I didn\'t even know who the Giant\'s WRs were this year and was guessing it was still Hilliard and Toomer. What you\'re telling me is that these two proven veterans now suck even though they had Blah Warner and Rookie Eli trying to throw to them when their o-line sucked as bad as it did. Then I get stats about how low their production was to prove they suck. You can\'t have it both ways. Overall, our WRs probably are better than theirs but that\'s because of Horn. Every other WR on our team has done nothing but flash potential.

Barber had a great year and deserved the probowl, I guess. As has been plainly illustrated the Giants had no o-line and no passing game and he still put up good numbers.

Of course, I wouldn\'t take Toomer for Horn or Barber for Deuce, but that wasn\'t the point of my post and you know that. btw, 2003 stats are probably a more favorable comparison of the WRs:

Horn 973 yards, 10 TDs
Stallworth 485/3

Toomer 1057/5
Hilliard 608/6

Anyway, the point is that AB made some blunders, but all QBs make blunders including Eli and you can\'t excuse Eli\'s just because you think he has a aorse team and not make the same excuse for AB when there are similar problem areas on both teams.



[Edited on 30/1/2005 by ScottyRo]

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

It adds up to me. And I\'m certain that AB is one of the few QBs in the league that is able to help keep this team atleast at .500 with these types of conditions. I\'m pretty sure that QBs like Manning or Brady would\'ve been on the IR list by week 4 playing behind our OL...

Even if AB did lead the league in red zone turnovers as saintswhodi says, that only means that most of the time, our defense had plenty of room to stop the other team from scoring in those situations and apparently, most of the time they didn\'t...

A lousy OL, defense and running game puts a tremendous amount of pressure on any QB, and I think AB handled it to the best of his abilities.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Seriously dude, I have heard some bad AB arguments, but this has got to be one of the worst. You do know a red zone turnover means you put ZERO points on the board right? What if the defense does stop them? They punt, we get the ball, go three and out, and punt it back. Somehow this is the defense\'s fault? Wow, wow, wow.

So Scotty you agree our receivers are better than the Giants. So do I . That was easy. And when you say all QB\'s make mistakes to justify 5 years of crap from AB, then compare him to a ROOKIE making mistakes, I truly see there is no hope for an fair argument here. Between what you and Joe said, I don\'t even know what else can be said. Of course Gumbo would call you fair, I don;t see how you can honestly compare a ROOKIE making mistakes to a FIVE YEAR STARTER and see that as even. And then you say I can\'t excuse Eli cause he has a worse team? A ROOKIE ON A WORSE TEAM? Oh my God. I give up. :casstet:

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

trust me eli will be a better qb than brooks.

look lets\' compare similar styled qbs--brooks and lets say farve-farve plays with just as bad a defense and a worse offensive weaponry..but maybe a better line.

what seperates farve from brooks-they both have great athletism, both can run, both have a good arm..it\'s leadership and that is my biggest complaint about brooks is that he is not a leader..partly becasue he is unacountable for his actions and partly because he is a self-centered player..

team wins and stats do not neccessarily go hand in hand.look at manning-great stats, can\'t get them over that hump.

farve is a HOF qb because he is a leader.

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

saintwhodi --

To you, NO one is fair uless they are willing to agree with you about Brooks.

I can post stats, win/loss records, etc.,ect., for other QBs first 4 years and show you they were worse than Brooks. And those would be QB who went on to win the super bowl.

Not that those \"Stats\" would prove anything. But YOUR stats prove NOTHING either. Brooks has very good \"stats\".

I really don\'t think you want to go down the \"stat\" road for QBs. Let me know if ya do though.

;)

What's that? An Aaron Brooks thread?
 

Gumbo, please tell me what \"stats\" you are talking about? Are you talking about the stats I and then mutey showed you about those 5 QBS YOU NAMED that were better than AB\'s? You mean those stats? Please. That argument was over as soon as you made it. Green blew AB away with worse weapons, so did Culpepper, so did Bulger, so does anyone. If you love Brooks, I am happy for any and all who are. Enjoy him. Please don\'t cry on here next year when we see the same thing, or if he is holding out for more money in the off-season. I am truly done.