TSN Saints Report
 

After finishing last in the league in total defense, many Saints fans expected and called for changes to the defensive coaching staff. Instead of subtracting, though, coach Jim Haslett added. New senior defensive assistant Willy Robinson was hired to a newly-created position in hopes that he can assist coordinator Rick Venturi in weekly game-planning and aide the staff's young assistants on that side of the ball. Robinson, a nine-year NFL coaching veteran, is regarded as a sound defensive strategist who has experience in all areas of the defense. Haslett, whose background is on the defensive side of the ball, will also be more involved. The defense improved dramatically down the stretch, and Haslett and Venturi want to carry that momentum into the 2005 season. The addition of Robinson is the first step in that direction. . . .

The Saints re-signed third-year quarterback Kliff Kingsbury and think he could challenge.....

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I like Kingsbury. He put up impressive numbers in college. But this statement:

will have him shipped off, traded, or cut before he ever gets to show what he could do here.

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Do you know ANY NFL QBs who didn\'t do well in college? I don\'t. Which is why they are in the NFL in the first place..

That\'s what happens to back-ups. They stay around until they receive a better offer or a chance to start somewhere else.

How many backup QBs has Green Bay got shipped out of that organization? It ain\'t just the Saints.

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This is encouraging.

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maybe he and one other pickup (frye) could make the qb a hot place to be for books so brooks would get better or get gone.

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Green Bay? Seriously Gumbo? Green Bay? So in essence, back-ups get shipped out of HERE and start elsewhere cause we have a hall of fame QB who has won a superbowl and regularly makes the playoffs, like Green Bay? Okay, maybe this is why we disagree so much, we see a different guy under center on Sundays. That statement explains A LOT.

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Granted, no one else is going to start ahead of Favre in Green Bay. But, it ain\'t just Green Bay and the Saints where back-ups are released or go on to greener pastures.

Where did Favre come from? He was a back-up in Atlanta.

Surly you know how the NFL works.

Suggesting the Saints are somehow unique because some of our back-ups are starting else where is one of those over-the-top statements that I must stay away from. ;)

I could provide you with PROOF that this is ture. But, somehow I think it would be of little use.

[Edited on 7/2/2005 by GumboBC]

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Please, please do. I want to see this proof, and a better example than a team with a HOF QB. The 49ers didn\'t ship Young off, cause he and Montana were class players and not afraid of competing. Please show me the proof.

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I really don\'t know why I bother with this. But, for your sake, I\'m going to show you and hopefully you won\'t be hard-headed and see the truth.

Brian Griese - Started as a back-up in Denver and was traded to the Dolhins who traded him and is now the starter in Tampa.

Trent Green- was the back-up in for the Chargers for 2 years and was traded to the Redskins. Later was traded to the Rams where he got hurt and lost his job to Kurt Warner. He\'s now the starting QB for the Chiefs.

Jay Fiedler- was the back-up QB for the Eagles for 4 years then went to the Jaguars for one year before going to the Dolhpins and becoming their starting QB.

Brett Favre- Was the back-up in Atlanta before being sent to the Packers where he won a super bowl.

Jon Kitna- was a back-up in Seattle for 2 years and then was later sent to the Bengals where he became the starter.


Is that enough?

[Edited on 7/2/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 7/2/2005 by GumboBC]

TSN Saints Report
 

So what you are saying it 4 different teams who shipped ONE, I repeat ONE QB is similar to a team that in 4 years has released or traded FOUR different QBs, Blake(proven starter here), Bulger(proven starter elsewhere) Delhomme(proven starter elsewhere) and J.T. (we\'ll have to wait on that one)? That is your proof? Why do I even bother? :casstet:

In case you don\'t know, that\'s called a TRACK RECORD. I doubt you will find any \"proof\" of anything similar ever happening in the NFL.

[Edited on 7/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

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Oh, so you wanted me to give you a scenario EXACTLY like Delhomme and Bulger going else where.

I\'m sorry, you should have said that in the first place, saintwhodi. I can\'t do that. But that wasn\'t what we were talking about.

I believe it was you who suggested that Saints were somehow unique by letting Qbs get away and they went on to have success else where.

I clearly showed you where that\'s not the case.

I really don\'t know what else to say. I\'m out on this one...

TSN Saints Report
 

Generally when someone asks for proof, they are looking for a similar situation. If I say a Ferrari goes 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, and then you say well the Pinto has a new engine, well yes both would be about CARS, which is the general subject, but unless you give a comparison to a car similar to a Ferrari, you are way off. I knew there wasn\'t any situations similar, that\'s why I asked for your proof, and I could have given your example before you did. The situation in New Orleans is unique to any other, possibly in NFL history.

This denotes the fact that there is a HISTORY of this happening, which there is. If I felt all teams were the same, the statement would have read, \"Well, like every other NFL team\'s back-ups, he will be shipped off to start and be successful elsewhere.\" But like I said, why do I bother?

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This is the only thing I have left to say on this subject, saintwhodi.

Instead of bashing Haslett and co. for letting Delhomme and Bulger get away. How \'bout some praise for them actually signing back-ups as good as Bulger and Delhomme.

How many teams do you know that have 2-back-ups good enough to start for other teams?

You can\'t keep 3 starting QBs on your team. And if you think you can you are misguided!!!

Delhomme or Bulger never showed us anything to make us think they could be better than what we had. Nothing!!

Hell, we never even saw Bulger play. And Delhomme played very little. That\'s probably why Delhomme wasn\'t signed to a big contract when he signed with the Panthers. In fact, Delhomme was the back-up when he went to the Panthers. And Bulger was the back-up when he went to the Rams.

I don\'t know what your deal is or what you are trying to prove. But.......IT\'S MISGUIDED.

I have no problem placing blame where blame belongs.

You act as if you knew Delhomme and Bulger were great QBs when they were with the Saints. No one, and I mean no one, had anyway of knowing that. Now you want to sit here with your 20/20 hindsight and tell us how smart you were and how dumb the Saints were.

Great, you\'re the smart one and Halsett and co. are complete fools.

And the salary cap prevents any team from stocking all those good players at every position.

Your dissatisfaction with Brooks drives just about every thought you have about the Saints organization.

And that\'s my final thought on this subject. I AM OUT!!





[Edited on 7/2/2005 by GumboBC]

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This may be what they are referring to when they say he needs to get stronger.
Of course several QB\'s had mediocre arm strength coming in.
Montana, Pennington, Brees, Delhomme, Bulger, Brady (I think).
Remember this scouting report is 2 or 3 years old so his arm strength may have improved significantly already. He may not be the next John Elway but I wouldn\'t call him a Danny Weurffel either.

Wasn\'t he a Patriot last year?

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Good one Gumbo. I knew how good Blake was, did you? He was 7-4. Is that proof to what he could do?

And man are you way off. Show me where I EVER said I knew Delhomme and bulger were gonna be good. Do you have that proof? I know this, they never got the chance to compete. Obviously for someone to trade for Bulger he must have done something that made them want him huh? So let\'s see, fans call for Delhomme cause AB stinks so instead of letting him openly compete, they let him go elsewhere. Before any controversy could be started, let\'s get rid of Bulger. J.T. is a hometown boy so this will be another Delhomme situation( and it was already starting to be) let\'s trade him. Blake PROVED he could win here, but we wanna go with AB so let\'s give him his walking papers. See the difference? Who cares how I feel about AB when this is the team\'s track record?

Also, I would praise Haslett and Co. if those players got a chance to COMPETE. They didn\'t. Noone wanted to ruffle the feathers of delicate Brooks so they were shown the door. Or are you gonna dispute that too when it says in recently published articles Brooks was McCarthy\'s project? His idea. His QB that he wanted. Read a little history man. So why don\'t YOU chastise Haslett and co. for not tapping into all this potential we had RIGHT HERE?

So let me say again the specific proof I want, show me where I said I knew Delhomme and Bulger were gonna be good. anywhere at any point in any conversation on this forum or any other.

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Your dissatisfaction with Brooks really comes to the surface in just about every post you make.

Including the one I just quoted.

How do you know they never got the chance to compete?

Jake Delhomme was in New Orleans long before Brooks arrived. All Jake had to do was beat out the 2 \"Billy Joes\" and he didn\'t even do that. I suppose Haslett wasn\'t the only one that had a vendetta against Jake, cause Haslett wasn\'t even here yet.

Jake had 5 years worth of training camp and preseason games to show something that would get him on the field as a starter.

Jeff Blake. Give me a break, dude. The guy has been a starter in the league before he got to the Saints. He\'s had his fair share of opportunities. He\'s now a back-up and that\'s what he\'s going to remain.

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So it took Delhomme more than one year to develop is your reasoning? I guess the 49ers shoulda never gave a chance to Steve Young, he blew in Tampa Bay. Certainly the Raiders should never have given Gannon a shot. Why would Green Bay waste time with Favre? Maybe the Giants should have quit and not won a superbowl with Hostetler once Simms got hurt. Cause obviously by what you are saying, if you are a back-up, you can not play in the NFL. So maybe the Seahawks should give up those last two trips to the playoffs with Hasselbeck as the starter. Or maybe KC needs to give back Trent Green and their 13-3 record from last year. Or maybe the Rams can give up on bulger and his 12-4 record and division title from a year ago.

Jeff Blake was 7-4 HERE, I care nothing about what he did elsewhere. Steve Yougn and Tampa Bay were horrible, how did that work out for San Fran? Think they are happy they gave him a chance? Oh, I forgot Brunell from the Packers. Maybe Jacksonville should give up that trip to the AFC title game with him as their QB. Maybe the Rams should never have looked at Kurt Warner, being he was out of football and couldn;t cut it as a back-up elsewhere. Man.

[Edited on 7/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

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Also, still want to know where I said this.

TSN Saints Report
 

Seems like the teams that signed them must have been soothsayers or just lucky by your reasoning.

[Edited on 8/2/2005 by turbo_dog]

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When Carolina signed Delhomme, they had Rodney Peete as their starting QB. They needed to sign someone. And they signed Delhomme on the cheap.

Bulger was brougth to the Rams to be a back-up to Kurt Warner. And they signed Bulger on the cheap.

It\'s not like teams where beating down the door offering both of those guys huge contracts.

And Brooks was our starter and they simply didn\'t beat out Brooks. Some of you might not like that fact, but it\'s a fact just the same... :o

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Really big change Billy?

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JoeSam,

Well, this conversation was started before I made that other post. I think I\'ve got it all out of system now...... ;)

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only a coupla comments-

-delhomme wasnt a blockbuster signing by carolina but it was 4mil for 2 yrs with the biggest qualifier being able to compete for the starting job. i think there were more reasons than just him being a La boy and anti-ab sentiment as to why saints fans were cheering him and booing ab.

-there are several teams that have two or more high salaried qb\'s in different sorta scenarios from a groomer to outright competition. without getting the precise contract numbers except for some i know consider these-
mcnair-volek 4yr 6.8mil
rivers-brees-flutie 15mil+ total
big ben-maddox
gannon-collins
fielder-feely altho both suck
garcia-holcomb
palmer-kitna maybe a push
bledsoe-losman
vinny-henson too old and too young money
warner-eli
griese-johnson-simms
ramsey-brunnell

competition and depth can only be good when you do not have a proven or durable go to guy. ab is durable, so no issue there. i do think there is legitmacy in that he has been coddled or that some folks are hell bent to show their decision to give him upper echelon money was justifed. unfortunately there has been more hell than justification. in 2003 when the ab bumbling fumbling debacle developed, when everyone was asking how he could be left in there, things might have been different if there would have been a legitimate challenger to step up into the starting spot rather than someone in the perennial clipboard holder mold.

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LK,

I agree that a good backup would definitely help us. Bouman sux.

I think that whether or not we should pay for a \"starter quality\" backup depends on how much cap room we have. Unfortunately, without some moves, it would be difficult for us to afford one this year. Given our troubles on OL and D, I think a stud backup/possible challenger QB might not be in the cards for this year - but in principle I see no reason to retain a \"starter quality\" backup for a couple of seasons.

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chicago\'s got a couple of qb\'s I think could be good elsewhere...I also like volek from tennessee.