Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Starting to think it is less than a player issue and more of an organization and FO issue. You have an owner who is being sued by his heirs for ownership of the organization. The future of the Saints in NOLA is questionable weather we want to admit it or not. Loomis being extremely irresponsible with Bensons money does not help his case any. It makes him look like he really might be at the point where he cannot conduct his own business because of his age.I think its bull**** and an old man should be able to do whatever he wants with his money and property no matter what. Up to and including giving it to hookers to wipe their asses with.

Salary cap issues are killing us and there is not much end in sight. Payton seems to have lost it and I think Brees has kind of lost his faith in Payton. Its not every day that a QB even of Brees stature will audible a two point conversion play called by a coach. Something is wrong, I could hear it in Brees voice today during an interview. In the past he had a upbeat and overall jovial personallity EVEN during bad years. Today he just seemed tired and frustrated.Eveything he said was rehearsed and fodder. I think he sees something in Payton that we do not.
I think there is an elephant in the room and people are walking on eggshells

The players are actually improving, which I am fine with. Its better than last year. Last year we just sucked and we werent going to get any better. At least this year we may be able to get to watch the team grow.

We have a QB aging and a coach who we all know wont be around long after, if he even lasts that long. Who is going to want to come in and coach in this nightmare environment? No QB, no cap space to get one, and a franchise with an owner in court battle with an unsure future.

A couple of years ago New Orleans would have been on the top of any coaches list. We probably could have had anyone we wanted not that we needed them, Im not saying that at all, but it looked like the franchise was going to be in great shape for years to come. It looked like we would be a franchise that a former successful head coach would want to be a part of. Now we probably couldnt get a position coach to take the head coaching job.

Anyway hope all is well, but something aint right with the FO

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

:popcorn:

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

So many threads. So little time.

:rolleyes:

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

First, this team isn't going anywhere; that's not denial, that's based on the hard work Paul Tagliabue put in to make sure the Saints were woven into the fabric of the Gulf Coast and its recovered identity...

Second, Loomis/Payton has gotten a pass on some disappointing seasons (including the BountyGate Debacle which would have gotten other people fired) because Payton delivered the unthinkable to Saints Nation...

Third, the one strength Loomis has had was keeping us in a flexible salary cap situation; obviously with some elite talent he's been unable to keep what was a strong core intact because of failed foresight on his part; also, he's become a rubberstamp for Payton's personnel request...

Fourth, as relates to the third, while you do have to give your head coach the reigns to lead the team, enough time has passed and with annual evaluations and assessments, Payton, loyal to a fault, has kept coaches that Loomis, as General Manager, should have insisted be replaced for failure to properly assess and develop talent...

Finally, we now have a stronger personality in the personnel role who will be able to "check" Payton which should help resolve what we are currently experiencing...

Unfortunately, what happened last season and what we are starting to arc out of was set in motion since the year after our Superbowl Championship...

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I haven't listened to a Brees press conference in years because everything he said sounded rehearsed and full of cliches to the point where I could see players would start to tune him out

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I don't agree with your assessment that no coach would want to coach here. They kept finding coachs for the Raiders when Al Davis was near his end and looney as hell. This is not the case here. We are still a good organization that has made some questionable choices as to contracts lately.

As to your point on Drew, I think you are reading to much into it. IMO I think he sounds beat because of his injury. He is a warrior and wants to play no matter what but I think his arm hurts more than he is letting on and he knows that he can't make the throws that are necessary. In the back of his mind, he knows he is gonna have to possibly sit out this week and its killing him.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

We are a hot mess!

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

It is all about 2017 and 2018! Objective is simple. Have a solid field of young up with up and coming players and a budget wide open to sign the key FAs needed to get this team one last run. We better hope the draft of 2015 is successful and our luck has changed. The drafts of 2016 and 2017 will be huge to the future of this club.

To start another push with Drew would be nice. If not tanking and drafting a true franchise type of QB would not be so bad. Actually in the big picture the timing would almost be perfect.

Ok back to today's crucifixion of Drew and SP.

Granted the Jr deal was screwed up and then to cut him doubly screwed us up. Payton should have trusted his gut, if the reported stories of him not being happy with Jr and just let him walk. That really put the cap on the front page and effected the field of play. 25% of of lost cap is to much for any team to deal with.

The Bird and Jr contracts were just to risky to begin with. Funny how almost every major issue with players come from the defensive side of the ball. Kinda makes one wonder who got there way in the decision making. cough cough Rob cough cough

As for the offense? another year of rolling the dice along the OL. This year Tim gets the hot seat. Then you have age setting in on the right side. Add to a constant rotation at WR the past few years and the loss of Jimmy how can you not feel for Drew. Inconsistency in receivers and an OL that is demising is a lot to handle. Then the pressure of having to put points on the board with every possession on top of all of that no wonder why people are picking him apart in he press. How can you judge a man when his supporting cast is shell of what it use to be?

As for SP see the reasons reread the reasons Drew.

Now the draft has been hosed and that is a another can of worms all together. Since bounty gate this has slowly fallen apart.

Gregg Williams is missed and the saints have not found anyone since. Who knew the loss of Williams would have this kind of impact on the team. It is safe to bet if he stayed more than one banner would be in the dome today. Please stop trying to build a defense at the expense of the offense. It has been a waste of time since Williams left. SP search so far is in vain. No one has come close to measuring up to Williams and the patch work defenses he was able to field.

Drew is not the main issue in the big picture to windows closing all around the saints.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

i think we have play that stinks up the frigan joint with 0 energy. Stinking up the joint.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I used to think it wasn't coaches, Loomis or Payton.

Now I'm thinking it's coaches, Loomis and Payton.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I think you may be onto something, Dude. We have all been watching the rosy picture of the Benson family empire progressively unravel before our eyes, the past couple of years.

To me the biggest red flag that something was seriously wrong with ownership at the level above the coaches, was that ridiculous 13-and-a-half foot bronze statue of Benson they put in Champions Square outside of the Dome. The statue features a 4-foot tall granite base and a 9-and-a-half foot bronze sculpture of Benson hoisting the Lombardi Trophy. It weighs 1,500 pounds while the granite base is five tons.

And apparently the Saints & Pelicans surprised Benson with this monstrous thing, as a present to him? Using his own money? Oh please. Somebody has got to be using that thing for jockeying for position or currying favor behind the scenes. It just reeks of dysfunction. Even Loomis was surprised by it.

I mean, this is just my opinion. They raised MY ticket prices, then spent it to put that crazy thing up, and then sure enough the team on the field started to slide after that....

In general I think there should be a rule that an owner can't have a giant 13-foot statue of themself at the entrance to the stadium, unless they either (a) built the stadium themselves with their own money, or else (2) they got at least 3 Lombardis in their time. Lots of owners have won several more than Benson, and they don't have statutes of themselves on the grounds put up by goodness knows who, family or underlings from their organization.

Robert Kraft's teams have been to the playoffs 16 times in 21 years. Al Davis won won 13 division championships, one AFL championship, & three Super Bowls. Pat Bowlen owned the Broncos for 30 years, and oversaw just five losing seasons the whole time. The Rooney family has practically got a whole closet full of old Lombardis from over the years.

I like Benson okay, but those are the kinds of owners who really deserve a big freaking statue of themselves, outside the stadium as the fans file in, in my opinion. Not one Saints fan I know is really super "into" that statue being there, the way the family and whoever paid for it, is "into" it being there.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

My thoughts on Champions Square, yeah I get the idea of a central tailgating spot but come on, the Saints won 1 title and all of a sudden this pops up.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

So you are saying the Saints are dysfunctional because someone spent money on a statue for our owner? Seems like you have way to much pent up emotions with this statue..lol

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I agree with a little, but disagree with a little.

I don't see how our future is question. We're here to stay.

Salary cap problems are a challenge next year, but look great for 2017. Loomis is a cap master, he'll get us the players we need.

QB's audible out of plays all the time depending on what they see from the defense. There are probably 2 or 3 options on that play, Drew just audibled to the one most likely to succeed. You don't run the FB up the middle against 9 in the box.

I don't think any coach would not want to come coach here just because we don't have a top 5 QB. We have a good young prospect waiting in the wings and if we do end up a disaster this year we'd have a very high draft pick which we could use any way a new coach desires to go.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I have a break off question in regards to Payton. I felt that in the past, I never knew what kind of play call was coming. Whether it would be a run, screen, play action, deep pass, or so on. However, last season especially and for the most part this season, I feel like I can call what type of play he is going to run about 95% of the time.

I think other saints fans feel the same. Is it because we have watched him for so many years now? Has it just become that bland? Or are we just not executing the way we use to? I'm interested in hearing true fans feedback, instead of commentators that just state basic fact (having trouble in redzone, run game struggling, so on).

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

This is what most of us are saying. Let Carmichael call the plays. Payton has lost it for whatever reason. He has become predictable. If us fans can guess what play we are about to run, what do you think the pro's on the other side of the field, who study film, can do?

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

There were several run plays against Tamp where they obviously knew what was coming because they crashed the line, and met Ingram 3 yards behind the line.

Then in the 2nd half there was a play I'm sure many of you remember.

It was a play action pass. Brees faked the handoff to KRob on the right side, but Tampa's defense didn't even look at KRob they just kept coming after Brees. Totally ignored the play action like KRob was invisible.

If Brees had handed the ball off, KRob likely takes it the distance. The hole was freakin huge!

They knew the play, absolutely knew it.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I do believe the cuts made to try to stay under cap were big hits to the team. I think Brees demeanor is down because he sees the writing on the wall too, not sure that he has last faith in Payton, I think they are just both unsure of how to fix the issues.
Getting on a winning run will eliminate all this doom and gloom, I'm just not sure that the team can Gel that quickly to get it done. But I'm hopefully optimistic!

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I would like to add:

-- country club training camp... This needs to end, and we need to move TC
back to Mississippi.

-- and no more talk about tofu & sprouts & gluten at the hot dog stands.

fix these 2 problems, and fix the Saints and their fans.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I agree, get back to hot and nasty, try to find that edge.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Just throwing this out there but how much of the Bucs knowing the play calling has anything to do with them signing Ryan Griffin after the Saints cut him. You think he didn't know what was coming when he saw the formations and personnel?

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Don't think it has anything to do with camp location but more to do with the lack of contact due to new CBA

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I partially agree. I think lack of contact is probably the biggest issue. As you can see by the numerous plays we could have stopped by tackling the player on the first try. I particularly remember a few times an edge rusher had a chance to stop the runner cutting outside, but missed due to angle and weak one arm tackle attempt.

At the same time, I think that a more "grueling" TC location, for lack of better word, would help with fitness, which might slightly cut down on injuries.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Something I've wondered lately, is it possible that our D coordinators are to old school in regards to training and doing things the way things are now in the NFL?

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Our O looked good in training camp against our D. Our D looked decent against our O, but, our O going against a less than average D and the D going against a bad front line O might look like a good team but it doesn't make a good team. Smoke and mirrors. Payton has some serious decisions to make. If our O-line don't get fixed Brees want make the season. Tampa has a decent D but nothing superior.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Couple of theories (and I'll steal a few from others):

1. Get camp out of freakin' West Virginia...we don't play in the ACC anyhow
2. Offensive play calling duties back to Carmichael. Sean, eat your pride & 'do your job' as Head Coach and oversee your underachieving coaching staff. That staff of yours is bordering 'F minus' territory...
3. Loomis, concentrate on being GM of the Saints. I like the Pelicans, but 2 jobs? Loomis, rate your job performance as Saints GM since you became head of basketball operations on June 2012, please? Scale of 1-10...
4. Can we please for the love of Pete find someone more competent (or just a little competency will do) to run special teams? This has been the most disgusting clown show to watch in the past half decade under McMahon's Stooge Regime. A blocked Extra Point...awesome. But it was our extra point...and we don't even complain about these things anymore. We are used to them. Sad.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Drew led the team off the field and Payton was shaking hands with the players. Drew didn't even look at his coach on his way to the bench. That tells me something.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

* Change it to Nicholls State in Thibodaux (Home of the Manning Passing Academy) and you got it...

http://blackandgold.com/u/5271-albums105-picture651.jpg

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

How many of those Raiders coaches went on to do anything good as a head coach after Gruden? I honestly dont know just asking.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I see his point. Its not the statue or even how much it costs that bothers me. It bothers me that someone within the organization took it upon themselves to write a check for however many millions without the owners knowledge and the owner being OK with it. If that is how Benson wants to run his business that is his perrogative, but its not smart business and its not something that would have flown with him 10 years ago. I dont care how many billions the organization is worth, that is millions of real money that is working capitol.
Theoretically if I had a business that was worth 100k and I owned it with a partner and he decided he was going to take 5k real money that is working capitol and buy me something with it I would dissolve the partnership immedietly. If he wanted to do it with his own money that he earned through the company fine, but doing it with the business' money is a no no.

All that being said I dont know how in the hell the statue was paid for, I was just going by what he said about the statue. If that is the case and the organization "surprised" him with it than that is an indicator that maybe he really doesnt have a handle on his business like he used to.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

A statue should be considered the way postage stamps commemoration used to be... dead for five years before you are even considered for
one.

The statue is embarrassing.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I agree but I think the issue comes from players given a role to play in the offense. SP is at his best when all the toys are multifunctional.

Ingram is no Reggie Bush. But the saints seem to have little faith in Ingram as receiver other than screens plays. I am surprised they have kept him around despite the lack faith they shown in him with the play calling.

WR? we just started to have a click with Drew and we traded him. Draft pick is cut and UDFA is were we hang our hat.

We have a draft year with 1 player on the team. A few others with major issues

We have 25% of our cap walking the street.

Yep the issues pointed to one place for the most part.

But we have a new crop of leaders and they have their first set FA and draft picks with the team so there is a change in the wind

Let this one play out

2017 baby.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

hmmm

https://illuminutti.files.wordpress....-mow.jpg?w=627

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/im...tivos14_08.jpg

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

I think whats wrong with the Saints is simple, go back to look at the successful years including 2009 SB run.

You had guys like Brees, Lance Moore, Thomas, Vilma, Harper, Fujita, Sharper, Evans, Colston, Shockey, Bush...some decent talent.

Lets FFWD to now and their roster replacements are not even on the same level as that crew, minus the ones that are still here like Evans, Colston and Brees, Colston is about done for anyway.

The only glimmer of light I see is what will this team look like next year and maybe a couple years down the line?

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Doesn't help when you have 20 Million and a QB.

We need money spend else were...

Lets get Grayson ready to go next year. Rebuild now.

Re: Another theory about whats wrong with Saints
 

Best theory I have heard yet:

We ****ing suck