Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Joe has an average of only 2.4 yds in YAC. That's LAST in the NFL.

Source

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

I didn\'t know he was last, but I figured he wasn\'t ranked very hight. Give his yards to Brooks! LAMO :P

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Maybe if Brooks would hit him in stride rather than making him slow down and catch it behind him, he would have better YAC.

I wish Joe would shut his mouth, but digging up little stats like this is unbelieveable. Who cares? Of course, there isn\'t an ulterior motive going on here. This is the second thread about one of our star players in some odd attempt to deflect criticism from Brooks. Nice.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

This is a new low.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

I am not shocked that Horn was last in YAC. Horn no longer has the speed he once had. His speed has been steadily declining for the past couple seasons. He is still excellent as a primary target, but a primary target that will not run away from most CB\'s.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

You don\'t get much yards running the curl route a gazillion times a game. Brooks doesn\'t have the accuracy to hit him in stride. You notice Stallworth gains a lot of yards after the catch because all he catches are WR screens. I do recall Brooks hitting Horn in stride last year a couple of times, but Horn dropped them. Oh well, we settle for what we get. It\'s better than having Heath Shuler or Ryan Leaf back there and Freddie Mitchell catching passes.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

I guess those couple of times he was just caught off guard.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Its not Joe\'s fault, its the New Orleans fans\' fault. If they wouldn\'t boo he\'d get more YAC\'s. The New Orleans fans just don\'t want the Saints here, thats why he drops the in-stride balls. Its our fault you idiots.

Joe Horn = LEON.


[Edited on 13/2/2005 by Danno]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Who can name this tune....

Leon, Leon loves his money. He makes a lot they sayay.... Spends his time...counting....while the others go on the field to play. And Joey, he wants to go awayay....leave Leon far behind...catch a big plane and go sailing...while Leon slowly dies.

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by Saint_LB]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

To get to any serious talk sbout another player on the saints, you\'ve first gotta go through a bunch of BS about Brooks.

So, let\'s get that outta the way first!!

Donte\' doesn\'t seem to have any problem taking it \"to the house\" when he catches one of AB\'s passes. And it ain\'t only on screen passes either!

Let\'s see .... What does Donte\' have that Joe Horn doesn\'t? Oh, that\'s right ................. SPEED!!

For you guys who have on \"Joe\" shades, I\'m just giving ya the facts.

Fact: Joe is LAST in the NFL in YAC!!

Twist the facts any way you like. I\'m sure ya will!!

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Problem is, I don\'t think anyone is taking this thread very seriously, well, except you. :P

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

:xxrotflmao:

I am sure you will be saying this plenty more turbo.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

FOR ALL OF YOU WHO WANT TO BLAME BROOKS FOR JOE HORN BEING LAST IN THE NFL IN YAC........

READ \'EM AND WEEP BOYS!!

Donte\' Stallworth YAC = 6.0
Jerome Paython YAC = 4.3
Michael Lewis YAC = 3.4
Joe Horn YAC = 2.4

Joe is last in the NFL and last on the Saints in YAC!

Kinda disproves that Aaron Brooks is holding ol\' Joe back, now don\'t it?

What\'s that? Huh? :P :P

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Aaron...is that you?

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Weak! I hope you can do better than this.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

I\'m assuming you\'re talking to me?

No, I can do no better.....LMAO!!

I\'ve brought all the facts to the table. You might not find it odd that our number 1 receiver (Joe Horn) is last in the NFL in YAC and last on the Saints in YAC, but I find it very interesting.

Or maybe you weren\'t talking to me at all.

Maybe when you refered to someone making a \"weak\" post you were refering to the folks blaming Brooks for Joe being last in YAC.

In any event, that\'s the best I could do... :P

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Did anybody notice how good Joe was at the low balls in the skills challenge yesterday? I guess he\'s had a lot of practice with those. Seems like everytime I see him make a catch on a slant he has to catch the ball about a foot or two off the turf.
:D

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

This is where this thread should have ended.

Let\'s see, so Mr. Football in the last few months has harshly criticized Joe Horn, Deuce McAllister, Peyton Manning, Bill Parcells, and Bill Bellichek. On the other hand, he vehemently supports Aaron Brooks and Jim Haslett, and has even made excuses for Venturi.

Name one player on the team who has played better than Joe Horn in the last 5 years. ONE. End of discussion.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

No, I aint\' \"Mr. Football\", but I can look at things objectively! Which I feel some folks can\'t!

I never said Joe Horn wasn\'t a good receiver. I\'m not bashing Joe Horn.

Joe does a good job at many things. But there are certain things that Joe is lacking that seperates him from the \"elite\" receivers.

\"Elite\", to me, means the \"total\" package. Joe lacks the ability to break the long one. He simply doesn\'t have the ability that a Marvion Harrison, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, or a Chad Johnson has. And there\'s plenty more I could name.

What makes Joe Horn good is his ability to run routes and get open on a consistent basis. But, where ever Joe catches the ball is usually where he gets tackled. As his YAC suggests. But, we don\'t need to see Joe\'s stats for YAC as we can all see Joe really never breaks the long one.

Ideally, you\'d like to have a number 1 receiver that has the ability to take any pass to the house.

Joe, IMO, ranks somewhere in the top 10 to 15 WR\'s in the game.

Joe stats are good every year. But, I think, to a certain extent, Joe\'s stats are a product of our offense passing more than ANY OTHER offense in the NFL. And of course, Joe is the number 1 receiver in a offense that passes the ball more that ANY OTHER offense in the NFL..

Now, you can write that FACT off. And you can write off the FACT that Joe Horn is LAST in the NFL in YAC.

Believe what you want. If you want to believe Joe is one of the \"eltie\" receivers, that\'s your business.

I believe Joe is damn good. Elite? No No....

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

granted i only looked at the original post. i cant imagine trying to bad mouth joe. thats just not to smart. the guy is the best to ever wear the saints uni at wo

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Or top five. Go look it up. I posted a while back and showed that statistically, Joe Horn\'s total receptions, yards, and TDs rank him 5th over the last 5 years, behind only Moss, Harrison, TO, and somebody else I can\'t remember. He\'s one of only five WRs to make the Pro Bowl 4 times in the last 5 years. He makes, on average, $4 million a year under his current (and most expensive to date) contract - whereas Randy Moss makes $9 million a year. You\'re telling me that Randy\'s YAC makes him twice as valuable as Joe Horn? Sure.

I love that all of a sudden the Saints are the highest passing team in the NFL - and that\'s why Horn has been successful for the last FIVE years. MAYBE you can draw a correllation this year, but not over the last five. Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR (see the \'03 season), another 1,000 yard WR (\'00 - Willie Jackson), no running game, a great running game, two QBs, injured. He shows up every single week. Period.

It\'s interesting that you use our one-dimensional offense as a crutch for AB, but then simultaneously suggest it helps Joe Horn. An minimally important stat like YAC is enough to dump Joe Horn, but AB\'s QB efficiency rating ranking him in the TWENTIES is irrellevant.

Even the media sees it. From Fox: \"As one of just five receivers to earn four Pro Bowl invitations the past five seasons, Horn wants and deserves a healthy raise.\"

I will. Feel free yourself to continue believing that Aaron Brooks is the only good player on this team too. Hey, it\'s a free country.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

So then, by your own admission, you say AB has had ONE legitimate WR to throw to in the last five years (Unless we count Willie Jackson)? I actually agree with this, and have stated it many times, but the moonshiners whack me over the head everytime I suggest it. Nice to see it coming from the head moonshiner.

:soleil:

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by saintfan]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

WhoDat --

You dance around every point I make. Let\'s end that!

I say Joe lacks the ablity to break the long one. Do you argree or disagree? No need to elaborate. A simple yes or no will do.

Since you\'re so fascinated with Joe\'s number of catches. Check this out:

Rod Smith:
1998 Denver 16 86 1222
1999 Denver 15 79 1020
2000 Denver 16 100 1602
2001 Denver 15 113 1343
2002 Denver 16 89 1027
2004 Denver 16 79 1144

Keyshawn Johnson:
1998 NY Jets 16 83 1131
1999 NY Jets 16 89 1170
2001 Tampa Bay 15 106 1266
2002 Tampa Bay 16 76 1088

Derrick Mason:
2001 Tennessee 15 73 1128
2002 Tennessee 14 79 1012
2003 Tennessee 16 95 1303
2004 Tennessee 16 96 1168

Hines Ward:
2001 Pittsburgh 16 94 1003
2002 Pittsburgh 16 112 1329
2003 Pittsburgh 16 95 1163
2004 Pittsburgh 16 80 1004

This elite list sure is growing. Growing to the point where \"elite\" doesn\'t mean a whole heck of a lot.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Thanks for pointing that out to me saintfan.. ;)

My, my my........... If I had a dollar for everytime you told me how great our receivers were, I would be out sipping on a pinacalda under a palm tree and not have to be here debating with you.

What\'s that word I\'m looking for ......ah.....Flippy Flop..lol

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving...

YAC, yet another meaningless stat...

oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL...





[Edited on 15/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison!

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

...to the Saints, he is...

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Wow - you guys are suggesting that all this Horn talk was really just a smoke screen to make a point about Brooks? Whoda thunk it? LMAO.

Transparent.


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it?
But sure Billy, let\'s look at your stats, shall we? I thought by now you would have learned your lesson, but I guess not.

I noticed that you only provided numbers for FIVE years for ONE WR, and Keyshawn\'s numbers aren\'t for the last five years. Hhhmmm - are you trying to skew things?!? NEVER!!

Here are the numbers for the guys you listed over the LAST FIVE years, according to NFL.com.

JOE HORN
437 Rec. for 6289 yards, and 45 TDs. 93 rec over 20 yards, 24 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 73 yards.

Hines Ward
429 Rec. for 5171 yards, and 34 TDs. 73 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 66 yards

Derrick Mason
406 Rec. for 5506 yards, and 34 TDs. 71 rec over 20 yards, 9 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 68 yards

Keyshawn Johnson
368 Rec. for 4809 yards, and 23 TDs. 69 rec over 20 yards, 2 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 67 yards

Rod Smith
455 Rec. for 5961 yards, and 34 TDs. 77 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 77 yards


So what did we learn? Horn is 2nd in receptions, 1st in yards, 1st in TDs by DOUBLE DIGITS, has TWENTY more 20+ yard receptions than the next guy, THREE TIMES as many 40+ yards receptions, and the 2nd longest rec, short by 4 yards.

Wait, wasn\'t the argument that Joe Horn couldn\'t break the long one? But he has far more 20+ and 40+ yard receptions than all the guys you mentioned Billy. How is that?!?!

LAST FIVE YEARS:

Joe Horn
20+ - 93
40+ - 24
Long: 73

Randy Moss
20+ - 96
40+ - 30
Long: 76

TO
20+ - 96
40+ - 29
Long: 70

Yeah - there\'s a HUGE difference there. Those guys average ONE HALF of a 20+ yard catch and ONE WHOLE 40+ yard catch more a season than Joe. One and a half more \"big\" gains! Joe Horn is CLEARLY down with the likes of Keyshawn Johnson.

Got another argument you\'d like to try.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

You\'re right. Over his most successful 5 year period ever in his career, Michael Irvin had 21 40+ yard catches (LESS THAT JOE\'S 24 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS), and 38 TDs (LESS THAN JOE\'S 45 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS). He also had 449 Receptions - more than Joe\'s 437 by about 2 catches per year. Yeah, there\'s no comparison there - Despite having fewer touches Joe has more big plays. Joe is far more explosive than Irvin.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1214

Enjoy!! ROFLMAO.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Where\'s BnB with the Stalloned!! when you need him?

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Let\'s cut through the BS... :P

WhoDat\'s case: Says Joe Horn is a top 5 receiver.
Gumbo\'s case: Says Joe is somewhere in the top 10 to 15.

WhoDat\'s case: Says Joe deserves to be paid like a top 5 receiver.
Gumbo\'s case: Says Joe deserves to be paid like a top 10 to 15 receiver.

WhoDat\'s case: Uses stats to show Joe is a game changing receiver.
Gumbo\'s case: Uses stats to show there\'s a bunch or receievers that have simular stats.

WhoDat\'s case: Says we\'re fine paying a 34 year old Joe Horn top 5 money.
Gumbo\'s case: Says if we\'re going to pay top 5 money, hey ....let\'s go get a top 5 receiver.

And, with that, Gumbo rests his case...LMAO.

You\'ll learn, WhoDat. One day, you\'ll learn....

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

WhoDat bases his opinion on facts and provides them as evidence.

Billy uses his opinion, and makes statements that are inconsistent with the facts.

The real bottom line is that you\'re attacking Joe Horn to deflect attention from AB. I have never said that the Saints should give Horn a Harrison-type contract. NEVER. I have said two things:
1) That Joe Horn\'s contract, which pays him $4.8 million this season, is still a FAIR contract, in which the Saints are getting MORE FOR LESS when compared with other WRs in the league - especially in the context of top 5 money.

2) That the Saints should make strides to keep Joe Horn. Never did I say that they should bow down and give him whatever they want. You\'ve been suggesting that Horn was \"over the hill\" for two years now, and he keeps proving you wrong ON THE FIELD (unlike your boy Brooks). Horn deserves more money for what he\'s done, and what he\'s made clear he can continue to do for at least some period of time. Crazy me - I think that the greatest WR in the history of the team deserves a little money and should retire a Saint. I know it may seem crazy, since you really only support big contracts to unknown and unproven egotistical QBs.

Sure Billy - you can go ahead and think you won this one. Based on your other opinions, I\'d be scared if you didn\'t.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Anytime someone criticises a player other than AB, it\'s nothing personal against that player. Hell, I\'m not even criticising Joe Horn! If saying Joe is a top 10 to 15 WR is criticism, then I just don\'t know what to say.

Get this, WhoDat ..... Threre are 9 or 10 receivers I would take over Joe Horn. You want me to list them? Let me do that!

This is in no particular order:

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Marvin Harrison
Andre Johnson
Chad Johnson
Roy Williams
Javon Walker
Tory Holt
Donal Driver
Mushin Muhammad

All stats aside, I\'d take everyone of those guys over Joe Horn.

And then there are some guys I\'d really consider, like...

Derrick Mason
Isaac Bruce
Eric Moulds
Darrell Jackson
Hines Ward
Rod Smith

All of those guys are very good receivers. There\'s lots of WRS with Joe\'s ability. And there\'s a bunch that have better abiltiy than Joe.

This ain\'t about Brooks. That\'s ridiculous!!

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

... a small, insignificant detail lost here....

... Marvin Harrison is not available..
... T.O. is not available...
...Chad Johnson is not available...
... Muhsin is not going toleave CAR
... Moss is not going to come here...
...etc ...
...etc ...

... so Horn is all the Saints have... they obviously can gamble with a rookie, or gamble with another 3rd tier WR to become another Joe Horn... but Joe is the known factor... even at 33, his total production this past year was almost twice as much as the second most productive Saints WR...

..now, just to make things clear: I don\'t think Horn is a \"top 5\" WR... just like I don\'t like stats, I don\'t like \"top # \" anything...

... maybe if they can lure Muhsin...

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Muhsin had a good year, but how many of us are comfortable to say that he wasn\'t just playing up for a contract? I\'m not. He will get his money and disappear again.

Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC
 

Sure, b/c of a guy named Steve Smith (not to mention Steven Davis or DeShaun Foster), not b/c he\'s slacking off.