At last I see the light
 

After reading the post regarding our most hard-working player; the one who brings GAME every single week - no matter how hurt - I know I am broken now and must admit the obvious.

:dancingmonkey:

It is all everyone else's fault that our Saints have been mediocre these last four and a half years. It was the O-line, the D-line, the secondary, our LBs, our RBs, our Coaching, Fans, City, State, Ownership, and our WRs, but MOST ESPECIALLY THAT BUM JOE HORN!!!!! It's all their fault!!!!! The only move we should make this off-season is to keep AARON BROOKS! He alone can lead us to victory. We MUST fire the rest of the team. Its the fact that Aaron Brooks has to carry all these other scrubs that's holding Aaron Brooks back! If we got rid of all the other players and Aaron Brooks could simply play without all that handicap, WE WOULD NEVER LOSE ANOTHER GAME!!!!!

:dancingmonkey:

Aaron Brooks, WE WORSHIP YOU!! Aaron is the best QB to ever wear shoulder-pads. Aaron Brooks is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Saints, Louisianna, the NFL, and the United States of America. I cannot wait to watch Aaron Brooks play again. I want to have his baby.

:dancingmonkey:

GEAUX BROOKS!!!! ***** (this is the new official Saints fan battle-cry. It is felt that saying "Geaux Saints" takes away from the glory that is Aaron Brooks. Therefore all "True Fans" must now use the official: GEAUX BROOKS. Optionally, you may use Geaux Aaron - so long and make certain those nearby know who you are speaking about.)

:dancingmonkey:


[Edited on 14/2/2005 by FrenzyFan]

At last I see the light
 

This is the best post that I have ever seen. The clarity, insightful and completely unbiased form of posting here is an example of how we should all do it.

Frenzy Fan, you have my undying admiration and loyalty for this post. I, too, have finally seen the light. Lo, doth I bow down to the southeast on my knees and worship at the altar of Aaron. Never again will I criticize an errant throw, never again will I curse when St. Brooks the wonderful drops a ball on the 2 inch line. Most assuredly you can all count on my fervent desire to see Aaron Brooks complete his tenure of greatness here with the New Orleans Saints organization. I will not desire any record over 8-8 nor will I be surprized at the offense\'s inability to score in the first quarter of any ball game.

Praise the Aaron!!! I SAW DE LIGHT!!!!

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! GLOOOOOORYYYYYY!!
HALLLLLLLELLUIAH!!

At last I see the light
 

:xxrotflmao: :rollinglaugh:

You guys are great.

At last I see the light
 

i would have to admit if in nothing more then jest i am with you also. if we take all of our top talent, sort of in the way the cowboys did with walker, and get rid of them and keep brooks we have the building of a real dominant team. the guy simply inspires!!!!

At last I see the light
 

You know, if you replace this post with comments directed at \"Deuce McAllister\" the only difference would be that it wasn\'t in jest.

At last I see the light
 

true except he doesnt make the dumb comments brooks does. other then that your right. well and the fact that they were both runniing backs

At last I see the light
 

I see someone finally realized that it takes an offense, defense, and special teams to win football games.

Someone finally realizes that we\'re NOT a QB away from being a contender!

It amazes me that some folks just can\'t hear any criticism about anyone other than the QB!

If Joe Horn is last in the NFL in YAC, that\'s not my fault. I suspect no one even knew this FACT. Sorry if that offends some of you. If me suggesting that Horn lacks the ability to break the long one bothers anyone, then show me where I\'m wrong. I\'ve yet to hear ANYONE say otherwise. So, it must be true. I never said Joe wasn\'t a good receiver. I just ain\'t willing to say Joe\'s an elite receiver.

When I tell some of you that our offensive line gave up 41 sacks, I\'m not making this up!! Just giving you the facts!! Does anyone think our offensive line is good?

When I tell you guys our running game ranked 26th in the NFL, I\'m not making this up. Just giving you the facts.

When I tell you our defense ranked LAST (32nd) in the NFL, I\'m not making this up. Just giving you the facts.

Let me spell it out nice and clear:
1. Defense ranked 32nd.
2. Joe Horn YAC is last in the NFL.
3. Offensive line gave up 41 sacks.
4. Running game ranked 26th.

Now, take all of the FACTS and write \'em off. Pay no attention to them. Use them anyway you want. Doesn\'t matter to me. They\'re only FACTS!

At last I see the light
 

No one disputes the facts presented on this board. No one argues that they are not true. However, it is a FACT that certain authors cannot accept any FACT about Aaron Brooks (all praises to Aaron Brooks, GEAUX BROOKS) that cast him in a negative light.

It is a FACT that almost EVERY SINGLE POST certain authors make is designed to point out the flaw everywhere BUT at Aaron Brooks. Certain authors excuse his mistakes and bad play(Oh Brooks-most-high, PLEASE FORGIVE ME), by blaming everything but him. Certain authors make excuses talking about how \"everyone else bashes Brooks\" so they have to defend him.

That is a bunch of crap. Everyone also bashes Victor Riley, why aren\'t those authors rushing to defend him?! Riley has tons of upside. He\'s atheltic, and could be elite with the right motivation and coaching. His biggest problem is weight - not ability. That is a FACT, but you won\'t see those authors even CONSIDERING that. They\'ll yell for Riley\'s head. They will, however, make every excuse under the sun, for our four-year-starter-at-QB citing all his unrealized potential and willing to give him all the time in the world.

There are a lot of things on this team that deserve criticism, and MOST of the membership of this board is pretty reasonable about dishing criticism and credit. I love the energy that some of the more controversial authors bring to this board. I admit immediately that without them, the board would be much less entertaining. That being said, they are the most BIASED, propoganda-slinging, spin-doctors who post here.

At last I see the light
 

See, that\'s where a lot of folks get confused. NO ONE has ever said Brooks hasn\'t hurt this team.

But there are plenty of folks who blame Brooks for EVERYTHING!

Instead of getting upset with folks like myself who refuse to pin everything on Brooks .... Why don\'t you check out what\'s being blamed on Brooks by the MAJORITY of this board.

I\'m going to post this ONE more time:

1. Brooks has been blamed for the poor defense.
2. Brooks has been blamed for the poor offensive line.
3. Brooks has been blamed for our receivers not producing.
4. Brooks has been blamed for us not making the playoffs.
5. Brooks has been blamed for not getting the play in on time and having to call timeouts.


And get this, some of us have to read those same ol\' tired posts in dang near every thread.

And get this too .... I don\'t buy all that crap!!

So, if it seems that there\'s a COUPLE of members here who defend Brooks from all the ridiculous accusations that are made ... Consider yourself lucky that some of us point out that there\'s much bigger problems besides Brooks.

And if you want to get upset about someone pointing out something other than Brooks, then .... I just don\'t know what to tell ya!!

I know Brooks has problems. I just realize there\'s a lot more to our problems than the QB position.

What would you like me to say about Brooks that would satisfy you?

I\'ve said Brooks fumbles cost us.
I\'ve said Brooks isn\'t the most accurate passer.
I\'ve said Brooks has made some stupid throws.
I\'ve said I don\'t think Brooks is a great leader. Or even good leader.


But, I can\'t go where the MAJORITY of this board goes on Aaron Brooks. Sorry, ain\'t gonna happen!!

At last I see the light
 

The dispute here is not that we are a QB away from a championship -- for now AB is not near the top of the list of immediate needs. He is an above averga QB \\. He has the ability to win games on his own as well as lose games on his own. Can we win a superbowl with him -- absolutely -- probably not but --- My opinion -- give him a chance to grow with the rest of the team. If we improve in the other areas we need improvement on and he still is inconsistent etc then dump him -- but don\'t waste the effort of replacing him until we get the other pieces of the puzzle in place. And this is not an undying endorsement of AB -- rather it is a realistic view of where the Saints are today and how do we get to the next level.

At last I see the light
 

The difference between those those people and you (since we are now using \"you\" instead of the indefinite \"some authors\"), is that they are calling for Brooks\' head, Haslett\'s head, Riley\'s head, etc. They are holding those other areas of the team (that are most definitely a problem) accountable for their actions. They equally berate mistakes and bad play in every area of our team. Those other people call for the correction of those mistakes.

Aaron Brooks has had more time than most of the players on this team to rise to play his position well. Somehow you seem to feel justified in calling for the head of people in other positions after a much shorter time - but seemingly can give Brooks all the time in the world.

You absolve Brooks, but not the other problem areas.

At last I see the light
 

I don\'t \"absolve\" Brooks from ANYTHING!!

To be honest, there are growing doubts in my mind about Brooks.

I\'ve seen the good, the bad, the ugly. But I\'ve seen it with Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Bulger, and many more.

The bottom line for me is ... Brooks, while he\'s had his own problems, he\'s had differnt problems to contend with every year.

I know you\'re going to take these as \"excuses\" but they are legitimate:

- Brooks tore a ligament in his shoulder one year.
- Deuce has gotten hurt for 2 years.
- Donte was injured for the better part of 2 years.
- Terrible offensive line play this past year.

Then there\'s the BIG thing. Our defense has sucked for 4-years.

All things considered, I can\'t hold Brooks accoutable for our records the past few years.

I can hold Brooks accountable for the \"mystery\" fumbles.

I can hold Brooks accountable for making a few stupid plays. And it was only a few.

I can hold Brooks accountable for trying to do too much and costing us turnovers.

Put Brooks behind a good offensive line (which we haven\'t had for 2-years!) and keep Deuce healthy, and I think he will be one of the better QBs in the league.

That\'s my opinion and that\'s simply the way I feel.



[Edited on 15/2/2005 by GumboBC]

At last I see the light
 

That\'s one of the better posts I have read in a loooooooooong time!!

At last I see the light
 

I actually wonder why the Brooks thing generates such anger?

As near as I can tell, most people think that atheletically speaking Brooks is pretty good, mentally he is fairly poor, and that overall he is no better than a middling QB. That seems to be well accepted.

People are so very interested in how much blame he should take, whether he is a serious or secondary problem, with whom he should be replaced (if anyone).

I have been a victim of the frustration that surrounds discussing Brooks, I am not going to lie. However, I don\'t know if I can undestang it just yet.

Here is my current hypothesis: since everyone pretty well agrees on the facts, all there is to disagree about is how a given poster responds to those facts (i.e. his feelings about the facts). Since no argument can be made that hasn\'t been heard, the only thing left to do is to state ones\' feelings loudly and repeatedly. It reminds me of a bar fight: people who are too drunk to reason, have lost track of the point, and know that they feel differently about something have only one way to solve their dispute.

Just a thought.

By the way, we\'ve agreed that the Raven\'s Waterboy is the solution to all our woes - he\'s got heart, he\'s got skills, and he\'s been linked to Paris and Lindsey... get him, do it.

At last I see the light
 

Those things you mentioned are excuses. They are also reasons. They most certainly affect Brooks\' performance. They also most certainly don\'t excuse his performance.

I am somewhat cheered to hear that you have \"growing doubts\" about Brooks. The point still stands that you only now begin to doubt him - while other players (with much fewer items of baggage) do not get the same benefit-of-the-doubt. Your posts about Joe Horn are a perfect example.

You call out Joe\'s lack of YAC, but make no allowance for the fact the Brooks almost always has a part in that lack of production. You also neglect the fact that Horn is our most prolific receiver and always covered by the best defender, and in most cases double-teamed. Why doesn\'t Joe Horn get the same level of forgiveness?

The difference between Horn and Brooks is that Horn produces when we need it, week in and week out. He is consistent and dependable - no matter how gimped and broken he is and no matter how \"old\". Joe Horn continues to pull our butt\'s out of the fire even when we are down 14 points and the other team KNOWS we are throwing it to him. Yet you cannot seem to find it in you to support him. We never know week-to-week what AB will do (or which AB will show up to play), and for some reason it\'s everything else\'s fault.

If you cannot see the inherent unfairness in that, I don\'t know how you can call yourself objective or realistic.

At last I see the light
 

Surly you\'re not suggesting that I should evaluate a an offensive guard or tackle the same way I do a QB?! And if that\'s what you\'re suggesting, then, I see the game a little differently than you.

There\'s no doubt that QB is the most diffcult position in football !!

Victor Riley, might be salvageable. But we can find another offensive guard pretty easily. I don\'t think the samething can be said of the QB position.

Can we find another QB? Sure! But who? A rookie? Kurt Warner? Jeff Garcia? Is there some back-up out there that I don\'t know about? Or -- will anyone other than Brooks work? Seriously, tell me who?

There\'s a much bigger differnce between Brooks and Horn!!

Joe Horn is a receiver. All he has to do is run routes and catch the football.

Aaron Brooks is playing the most difficult position in the NFL. The offensive line doesn\'t affect ol\' Joe that much. But, it sure affects Brooks.

I\'m not going to list the things that affects Brooks that have very little affect on Joe Horn. I believe you know all of this already.

It seems you just don\'t understand the differnce between the QB position and other positions. Or you\'re just not willing to look at the differences. Which might explain why we see things differently.

At last I see the light
 

FF,

Here is another thought: why are you so concerned about what Gumbo thinks?

I can understand presenting him with arguments, trying to figure out what makes him tick, and so on - for the purpose of crafting better arguments, but if it is just because he thinks it, I don\'t see the point.

He just said that a whole bunch of things were Aaron\'s fault.

Furthermore, Joe\'s lack of YAC just happens to be a hot topic these days. People understand that part of that is on AB, but YAC is WR stat for a reason - it says something about what the WR does with the ball after he gets it, how open he can get and so on. If that isn\'t at least partly on Joe, I don\'t know what you are talking about.

It seems to me we get caught up in a problem between who is causally repsonsible (has a part in) and who is blameworthy (that is a kind of causal responsibility but not merely a causal responsibility) a lot.

AB is is causally responsible for delivering the pass and to whom, but it is a more difficult question who is praiseworth or blameworthy for what what happens after the ball is delivered (sometimes it is AB, sometimes it is whomever gets the ball).

At last I see the light
 

You can accuse me of \"not knowing the difference\" between NFL positions. You can talk about Riley and the OL and their \"lack of effect\" on Joe Horn, though I made no mention of that in my last post. You can attempt to deflect from the point of my last post in any way you see fit.

The point remains:
1) You forgive ABs poor play by blaming it on other factors.
2) You tear down productive, pro-bowl players without making any allowances for how things might affect their output.

Now, go ahead and come back and attack me while ignoring the point. Maybe this time you can say something mean about my mother.

At last I see the light
 

FF --

Let\'s get something straight here.

a.) It\'s you calling me out and say I blame NOTHING on AB.
b.) I\'m the one who\'s having to defend myself!

1. That\'s something you\'re dreaming up. I\'ve blamed all kinds of things on Brooks. But, it\'s simply not good enough for you. You think unitl I agree with you that I\'m some fool for bringing up other factors!!

2. Again, you\'re dreaming that up instead of reading what I really post.

What did I say about Joe Horn? I said he was a damn good receiver. I said he was in the top 10 to 15 receivers in the entire NFL. I also said he was last in YAC.

What have I ever said about Deuce? Deuce is a great runningback. Probably on of the 5 best. That is, when he\'s healthy.

It folks like you who I have to explain what I REALLY said and spend very little time actually debating what I really said!!

Go show me where I said ANY of the things that YOU are ACCUSING me of and we\'ll talk!!

Until that time, I really don\'t care to have to defend myself about something I NEVER said!!

.

Attack you? Talk about your mother? I\'m sorry you\'re getting so upset. But, I haven\'t attacked you in any kind of way.

Agian, I\'m the one having to defend myself. I\'m just trying to stick with the topics you bring up. No need to go there.

At last I see the light
 

I believe that if you check my posts above, prior to you responding directly to me - I did not mention anyone in particular. I am especially careful in my writings to ensure that noone is singled out. By your response above and your beginning to reference \"you\" (refering to me) in your posts, it became a dialogue between us, rather than commentary about posts, etc.

For the record, I am not upset. This is a message board. I don\'t usually get upset on message boards. I find them ironic sometimes, but they don\'t make me upset.

My point, that again you\'ve refused to answer (other than by saying \"Did not!\") is that you seemingly unfairly evaluate other players, in comparison to how you evaluate Brooks.

Again, I did not \"call you out\" as you put it. I wrote about my impression of \"some authors\" (look it up, I am not inventing this). You jumped right into me. Are you perhaps a little self-conscious? Perhaps you mistook me for someone else on this board?

This discussion appears to be upsetting you, so I will discontinue it. I plan to keep reading you. As I mentioned, I think you bring a lot of excitement to this board - though I believe you unfairly allow a lot of slack when it comes to AB and are extremely critical of other players (most especially those who have been critical of Brooks, it seems).

Luck!

At last I see the light
 

FF --

I\'ve read your posts here at B&G for some time now. I respect your opinions. I don\'t think you\'re foolish for feeling the way you do.

Now, I disagree with you on certain things but that\'s to be expected on a message board.

You think I don\'t blame Brooks enough.

I think you blame Brooks too much.

Who\'s right? Who\'s wrong? Who cares?

I\'m pretty fair with my analysis for all the players and coaches.

I cut most of \'em a lot more slack than most members here at B&G. And it\'s not just Brooks either.

I took up for Deuce this year. I blamed the offensive line and injuries for a major reason in the lack of production from Deuce.

I haven\'t bashed Joe Horn at ALL! I find facts and I bring them to the table. I saw Joe was last in YAC and I posted it. It\'s just something to consider.

I\'ve cut Tebucky Jones some slack. Some wanted him gone after his first year. I\'m still willing to see how he does once we get our front 7 straighted out!

I\'ve cut Brooks some slack. His problems aren\'t all on him. And he\'s not above criticism. It\'s simply a difference of opinion. I\'m not going to change my mind until I feel the other problems are corrected. Just as you aren\'t going to change your mind about Brooks being cut!

Me? I\'m not upset. It\'s all good. We have a better understanding of where each other stands.