How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Mike Triplett, ESPN Staff Writer
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METAIRIE, La. -- Five defensive coordinators in eight years.

That's all the evidence needed to show the New Orleans Saints' defensive problems run much deeper than just Rob Ryan.

Ryan joined Gary Gibbs, Gregg Williams and Steve Spagnuolo in the parade of coordinators who have been sent packing. That pins a good portion of the blame on those who have been constants throughout the Saints' years of defensive struggles -- head coach Sean Payton, general manager Mickey Loomis, the scouting department, and veteran defensive assistants Joe Vitt and Bill Johnson.

It's not for a lack of trying, though.

Those longtime decision-makers have tried in vain to build a stronger defense. For six straight years from 2008-13, the Saints' highest draft choice was a defensive player. And they've spent megabucks on defense in free agency, including Jairus Byrd, Brandon Browner, Keenan Lewis, Curtis Lofton, Brodrick Bunkley and David Hawthorne, over the past four years.

This year, more than ever, the Saints seemed intent on rebuilding the defense with youth. They traded offensive players Jimmy Graham, Kenny Stills and Ben Grubbs while stockpiling draft picks and using six of them on defense. They also revamped the scouting department after player personnel director Ryan Pace left to become general manager of the Chicago Bears, bringing in Jeff Ireland to run the college scouting group.

Maybe those rebuilding efforts will start to pay off soon. But nothing is working right now. The Saints are on pace to allow the second-most yards in NFL history. And they're chasing themselves. The only team worse was the 2012 Saints, under Spagnuolo.

Here are the main reasons -- other than Ryan -- why it has gone so wrong:


Sean Payton has fired another defensive coordinator, Rob Ryan, as the Saints' defense continues to perform poorly. AP Photo/Jonathan Bachman
Draft flops: The Saints have only three picks remaining on their defense from all of the years prior to 2015: Cameron Jordan (first round, 2011), Kenny Vaccaro (first round, 2013) and John Jenkins (third round, 2013). Those were solid picks, but so many others have been busts -- none bigger than cornerback Stanley Jean-Baptiste, a second-rounder in 2014 who lasted one year. That entire 2014 draft class was a colossal bust behind top pick Brandin Cooks. Linebackers Khairi Fortt (fourth round) and Ronald Powell (fifth round) also lasted only one year.

The Saints also haven't had enough draft picks to work with. From 2008-14 they had by far the fewest picks of any NFL team (5.4 per year). That was the result of losing two second-round picks in the bounty punishments; trading up multiple times for the likes of Sedrick Ellis, Mark Ingram and Cooks; and trading for veteran like Jonathan Vilma and Jeremy Shockey.

I didn't fault the Saints for many of those moves since they were playing to win during their championship window with Drew Brees at quarterback. But we're seeing the cost of playing for the present now that we've reached the future.

Not much better in free agency: I also didn't fault the Saints for signing Byrd to a whopping six-year, $54 million deal last year. They were going all-in to win while they had a championship-caliber roster. They were a popular Super Bowl pick in 2014 with some claiming it might be their most talented roster ever. Byrd appeared to be the missing piece for a defense that finished fourth in the NFL in yards allowed in 2013 but had struggled to force turnovers.

But Byrd struggled early and then suffered a major knee injury, which lingered into this season. The rest of that fourth-ranked defense went through a sophomore slump, with Ryan and players admitting they had been drinking the Kool-Aid amid all that preseason hype.

This year's top signing, Browner, hasn't worked out much better. The Saints signed him to a three-year, $15 million deal as they switched to a more physical press-coverage scheme. Browner leads the NFL in penalties and has given up a handful of deep balls as the Saints have struggled to take advantage of his skill set.

Lewis was a terrific signing in 2013, but injuries have plagued him this season. Lofton was a very good signing in 2012, but the Saints cut him just three years into the deal when his contract was set to balloon. Bunkley and Hawthorne were decent rotational players, but they didn't provide nearly enough bang for the buck.

Dumping Junior Galette: This one is a category all on its own because it hurt on two fronts. The former undrafted free agent developed into the Saints' top pass-rusher from 2013-14, and they signed him to a four-year, $41.5 million extension last year. But Galette became such an off-the-field headache that they cut him this summer.

It was a move the Saints had to make for the sake of their team culture and chemistry. But not only did they lose their top pass-rusher, they're also dealing with a $5.45 million salary-cap hit this year and an astounding $12.1 million hit next year in dead money.

Injuries: Ryan might still be here if not for the injuries that have plagued the team in 2015. Byrd, Lewis and linebacker Dannell Ellerbe all missed the first three games while the Saints started 0-3. Then Lewis, cornerback Damian Swann and linebackers Ellerbe, Hau'oli Kikaha, Hawthorne and Ramon Humber have missed time during this latest ugly stretch (14 TD passes allowed in three games).

Payton's impatience: This one is harder to quantify, but it seems like the only job more difficult than being Payton's defensive coordinator is being Payton's kicker (he has gone through 10 of them since 2006).

I don't blame Payton for firing any of the four defensive coordinators. I recommended at least two such moves before they happened, and most observers could see all four coming from a mile away.

But whether it is Payton's nature or his inability to find the right guy, he has never seemed able to just hand the keys over to a defensive coordinator and let him be. This year, especially, Payton mandated that Ryan simplify his complex schemes and brought in senior defensive assistant Dennis Allen to help run things.

Ryan's way wasn't working in 2014, when the Saints' defense was plagued by assignment and alignment errors. But this setup didn't work either.

Maybe Allen will finally be that trusted partner who has the necessary kinship and chemistry with Payton. Allen was a member of Payton's original staff in 2006, and the mutual respect seems high.

Or maybe Allen will just become the next man in that parade line.

How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

In the Saints "organization" the buck doesn't stop anywhere! They all point their fingers at each other and say "It's his fault"

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Should change his name to Captain Obvious Jr....

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

We lost some leadership over the years too....

I'm going back as far Vilma, Smith, Fujiti, Greer & Harper (yes Harper). I don't think we ever recovered after Greer's career ending injury at the corner back position.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Crap runs downhill. Gravity is a ***** for the defensive coordinator.......:wink:

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Next...................

But seriously I don't think there will be another one after Dennis Allen in the Sean Payton era.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

There are a lot of reasons... just pick one and you won't be wrong.

I will argue that I don't think the D ever really got better from 2012.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

That, in a nutshell is a huge reason why our pass rush sucks this year. That dumass cost us big time, for 2 seasons.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Who is more of a dumass, Galette or the decision makers who decided to invest in him?!?

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

And we won a Superbowl.

http://cdn.smoothfm.com.au/sites/def...es/yuuKSQx.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ad78174f31.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...2XPFBwhOfDfk3j

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

The author forgot to include slary cap issues that are preventing the team being able to compete for high quality free agents.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Yet we're still one of the winningest teams in football over the last nine years

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

All SP and the saints are looking for is a solid middle of the road defense that by season end will be in the plus end of the turn over battle.

If the rumors were true and SP wanted to dump Jr before the contract was signed SP has a huge I Told You So he can milk for years.

So front office has some blame and the DC has some blame to share in that one.

As for the rest it is simple bad cap management and poor personnel moves across the board as soon as Rob walked in the door.

Actually the trades we made this year are paying off pretty good.

Kenny Stills for injury prone Dannell Ellerbe is not so bad considering he has no dead money tied up with him in the final two years of his contract. Plus we still have not seen PJ Williams on the field.

Dannell Ellerbe is a player I would target to replace via the draft if the right player was on the board. No rush cutting him but a replacement in the wings would be high on my needs list. That if the injury bug stays with him which it appears is a safe bet. A player drafted as back up to him would by all odds see plenty of time on the field. If all goes well resigning and/or keeping the 30 year vet would not be an issue. hello 5.9 in additional cap space.

Remember Max Ungers contract is up at the same time as Ellerbe. Granted he will be he will be an old man of 30 years of age he does play a position were another 3 to 5 years can be had at a high level. Stephone Anthonyn looks solid so far. Needs to plug the whole better against the rush but I think that will work out in time.

Ben Grubbs for a Tyeler Davison has shown some promise and looks to be a solid addition to the DL rotation. Not sure he will ever become a 34 NT but that I will leave up to the cooks of New Orleans to solve.

It would appear that the change in the front office was a good one. Now lets hope a change at DC will also add to this groups' improvement

Dennis has a solid draft history but his FA signing need to be watched.

Youth and the key word GEL is the number one thing that is killing this unit. So some time on the field and a few solid drafts like last year and we should be better off in 2017 than we are today. next year baby we break 30!

2017 2017 2017 2017 2017

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Well that sure is a feel good article, but truth hurts. We have turned into a slowly sinking ship headed straight for the next chapter in Saints history.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

See i do not see the ship as sinking. sure the water level is at the gun rails and we are bailing like crazy. I do think we can bounce back from this by 2017.

Just keep drafting solid player that is all. you do not need super star late round diamonds every year to save the draft. draft is all about quality depth and the luck of the gods if you get a starter after round 3.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Galette is. He had no major issues at the time the contract was given and ,at the time, it was earned. Nobody saw the sh!t that was to come....well at least I didn't.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I seem to remember he turned into one after getting the $$$$$$$$$

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I agree about drafting solid players, I would love a field of blue collar players on both the O-line and the entire D, but drafting players that fit a scheme should be happening, we try to fit way too many square pegs in round holes, our drafts sux and until we fix that it's only filling in. Davidson should be adding weight instead of losing, if he was able to bulk up I think if he wasn't able to play the nose he would be a mean DE in a 3-4. Ellerbe I would keep. Jordan I would trade for high picks and get a DE and ILB. Need to finish the 3-4 and say so long to the 4-3 blunder we run. Dropping some big contacts now will pay off and Brees price tag needs to be reduced also.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

love them blue collar, lunch pail toting, snot knockers at the heart of a team.

It just set a hard nose, no non sense mind set through out the rest of a team.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I agree about the square pegs in round holes, but I disagree about the 3-4 and about Jordan. Cam is one of the best DE's in the NFL and they are very hard to come by. He's equally effective in a 3-4 as he is in 4-3.

To me, Davison looks like a great 3-tech in a 4-3, with the ability to play the NT (4-3) as well.

To me, the future looks like a 4-3 with Jenkins at nose and Davison at the 3 tech, Cam and Richardson on the ends.

Obviously Anthony at MLB, with Kikaha at SLB and Ellerbe at WLB.

I say we stick to a base 4-3 (occasionally mixing in some 3-4) and focus on upgrading OLB and the DE on the other side of Cam.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

So help me understand. You propose this front 7:

Jordan Davison Jenkins Richardson
Ellerbe Anthony Kikaha

Now that's 7 players that we currently have on the roster, right?
Yet there has been no consistent pass rush or run stoppage from this, or any other front 7 group of personnel.

So how exactly what is going to improve to significantly change the performance of this proposed front 7 with no significant personnel changes?

SFIAH

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

And those players in a 3-4 would change how?

We fired our DC. My guess is because he was a bad DC, meaning he couldn't get his talent to perform.

My post was about which scheme best fit our players. It had nothing to do with how bad they played under Rob Ryan.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I hope we're not counting on Ellerbe. Guy can't stay on the field. Not looking too great for Lewis either.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I have no idea. My gut is telling me that the defense is going to be bad with the existing personnel regardless of scheme.
I don't think that it's that simple. Usually firing coaches is a function of the fact that players cannot easily be fired due to their contracts negotiated under the CBA. You cannot get rid of the players, so get rid of the coach.
I understand. I pitched an entire thread asking the same question.

SFIAH

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Jordan is a very good DE but with more players being more 3-4 ready and basing a D around a 4-3 DE instead of a NT or pure DT I wouldn't do. I would trade for the final pieces of a 3-4 and go from there. If we stay 4-3 our middle surely needs to be adressed which include both DT's and MLB or it will stay the same. Another poster said that we have basically waisted Brees years for not having a D, I'm agreeing with that more than ever now.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Jordan is Will Smith 2.0...

He'll have good games against backups and mediocre players, but disappears in big games because he lacks elite talent...

I'd trade him for a second/third round pick and keep bringing in younger, cap-friendly talent...

Like the above posters stated, we have more 3-4 personnel than 4-3 and justifying Jordan's contract seems to be the only reason for the 4-3...

Another thought, get Clemson Defensive Coordinator Brent Venables; despite losing multiple stars to the draft, he's got that defense in the National Championship at No. 1...

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Rather than agree to disagree over Jordan, let's look at some of the other personnel...

Consider...

Davison is not going to generate pass rush; you need a 3-tech (A. Donald) to get after the passer; he is, however, a great nose tackle capable of collapsing a pocket...

Jenkins had the size to be a great nose tackle until we inexplicably had him slim down to play a 3-tech...

bulk him back up and rotate with Davison and you'll have one of the best, freshest NT rotations in the league...

Richardson has the size for a 4-3 or 3-4 defensive end, his pass rush skills are limited by his experience, but he's a great rotation guy...

Linebackers...

Well, we've got the high-motored OLB Kasim Edebali sitting on...the bench?!?

Put him in across from Hau'oli Kikaha; we've seem some good things when both those guys are in...

Then you put Stephone Anthony and Dannell Ellerbe (when healthy) in the middle; Ellerbe was much better in the 3-4 (Baltimore, first year Miami) than he is in the 4-3...

Now you've limited the front seven area of responsibility and allow them to read faster and make plays rather than depend on the secondary for play making...

Let three of our big guys rotate and plow and clog against the oppositions five offensive linemen, gaining a numbers advantage...

and then randomly attack with these athletic linebacker we have from the various four spots (one example - zone blitzing, stunts)...

We also have some other great players on the practice squad and injured reserve...

OLB Davis Tull, NT Ashaad Mabry, DL Lawrence Virgil and NT Austin Brown...

They can come in next season and compete to make that front better with a consistent, fresh rotation...

But with the current pass rush "led" by Cam Jordan, we're just going to see more of the same regardless if Rob Ryan is on our sideline or not...

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

I like how you laid that out. If just 1 of the practice squad NT can beef up to be quality depth and draft a DE that can clog his side with drafting depth at the lb.ers spot and PJ getting healthy I don't think a 3-4 want work. Might be a really easy transition. Get the draft picks for Jordan, win, win. And Payton would still have plenty of picks to shore up the O-line + whatever toys he wants.

Re: How the Saints' defense became the worst in the NFL, again
 

Allen will blitz more and we may see a little better of a D but in reality we're still the same just putting more pressure from the lb.'ers but the front 4 will still lack.