Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Over the past few seasons, we've seen our secondary really struggle. Many times, they've seemed confused and lost, letting receivers run totally free through the secondary. Missed tackles were also the norm. Most notably, Tebucky Jones in 2003.

Last season Haslett and Venturi promised we would be fine with the tandem of Fred Thomas and Ashley Ambrose at CB.

They quickly saw that wasn't going to work and jumped at the chance to aquire Mike McKenzie from Green Bay. Fakir Brown soon replaced and injured Ashley Ambrose.

As it stands right now, we will start the 2005 season with Mike McKenzie and Fakir Brown at CB. Tebucky Jones at FS and Jay Bellamy at SS.

That's a blend of one proven CB with Mike McKenzie and one promising CB with Fakir Brown. While it would be great if we had another standout CB to compliment McKenzie, I think Fakir played pretty well for his first season. And I think he deserves to be starting where I think he will only get better. I think when a player shows as much promise as Fakir did, you must develop guys like that.

So, I feel pretty good about our CBs!

But, it's the back-end I have some concerns about!

Jay Bellamy is good in run support but usually isn't anywhere around the football when it's in the air.

Tebucky Jones improved his tackling dramatically last year. But, as with Bellamy, he really wasn't around the football when it was in the air.

It's been said that a safety is one of Haslett's top priorities this offseason. I can't say I disagree. I think the back-end of our defense is too soft. Neither Bellamy or Tebucky Jones break up enough passes or come up with the big play.

IMO, we need an enforcer to lay the lumber on opposing WRs!!

While we have other needs on defense, this isn't a bad place to start, IMO!

Thoughts?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

LINEBACKERS-we need LINEBACKERS...honestly..IMO that is really our biggest need on defense..then maybe a prime time safety.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Our corners are fine... two solid starters and good depth. As far as our safeties are concerned, there is TONS of room for improvement. The draft and free agency will address this situation. Select a safety in the second round... maybe a Shazor or if Pool is still there. We all know about the Tebucky Jones rumors but if he were to be released, wouldn\'t they have done it already? I think he\'s going to wind up staying giving us another year of Jones and Bellamy. How lovely :casstet:

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I can\'t say I disagree. In fact, I TOTALLY agree.

But, what about Courtney Watson? Do we keep at at MLB? Do we move him over to WLB? Or sit him?

And what about Colby Bockwaldt? Sit him? Move him? What?


What\'s your plan?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

That\'s the way I feel, papz. Although, I think there\'s an outside chance Tebucky MIGHT put it all together. I\'m not opposed to dumping his azz, though.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

i think cody is a backup..watson.. I don\'t know..I say leave him at MLB unless we find someone better.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Yea I\'ve been thinking he would put it all together the past 5 or 6 years he\'s been in this league. Yea maybe this year it will all be different. He probably will implant a piece of steel into his forearm and develop some kind of mutant ability to help him wrap up a tackle. Oh yea... I can all see it now. ;)

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

here is a question-since cody is undersized at the LB-could he play safety?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

when you are last there are plenty enough needs to spread around. i do also think lb is in even worse shape. maybe cuz there are 3 of them instead of 2 safeties LOL. but as for safety it is widely reported that the saints are considering dropping t-buck outright with a cap hit of $3mil. i cannot argue. i think we could get as much for at least half that. muchless, actually sign some higher impact guy. if bellamy is the starter going into the season it will be deep doo doo again. looks exactly like an ambrose/thomas ready to get old fast to me. HELP!

fox sports-
The Saints want to re-sign cornerback Jason Craft, but he could draw some interest on the open market. He\'s best suited as a third corner in nickel situations, but he played well enough late last season to merit a chance to start. If a team gives him starter money he\'s likely gone. That would force the Saints to bring in another corner, either through free agency or, more likely, the draft. Depth behind starters Fakhir Brown and Mike McKenzie is questionable. Ashley Ambrose is 34 and coming off a knee injury. Fred Thomas had a terrible 2005 season and can\'t be counted on to return to his prior form.
A free safety with ball skills is also high on the priority list. Jay Bellamy is an unrestricted free agent and, at 32, is on the downside of his career. Free safety Tebucky Jones has been a disappointment. The Saints want an upgrade here. The defense evolved into primarily a bump-and-run coverage team at the end of the season and needs a veteran ball hawk with range to patrol centerfield. Unfortunately, there are few of those players available. Baltimore restricted free agent Will Demps is an ideal candidate, but he\'ll be difficult to pry away from the Ravens. Pittsburgh\'s Chris Hope is also a possibility. He played for new defensive backs coach Willy Robinson.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Colby isn\'t undersized. 6\'-1\" 237lbs is perfect for a WLB.
He just needs to get stronger. He pursues well, but can get blown up running right at him. If he gets bigger he may lose his speed advantage. He needs strength, not bulk.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

hodge will walk in all likelihood, bockwoldt does have potential but it just and only that. nothing to count on. allen cannot be counted on either even tho the light seems to come on more often. watson is legitimately good and worth developing. i\'d like to see him more outside but he\'ll do there until better is acquired. one veteran big splash free agent like hartwell here would be my prescription. we\'ll be lucky to see a journeyman-second tier like chris claiborne tho.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

As for the corners and safety situations, I\'m with some of the other comments made. I like the CB starters with Mckenzie and Fakhir Brown, Man he made some nice clean hits last year! Brown improved tremondously over the last weeks of the season. Mckenzie seemed to be everywhere near the final weeks as well. I\'ve heard Samari Rolle\'s name come up a few times on other NFL posts as he was released from Tennessee recently. Any truth behind the Saints interest in him? As for
the Safeties, I agree that, that can be handled through Free agency.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

If Haslet said we\'ll be going after Safety then you can bet we\'re not. He always lies about their intent just before big events such as FA and the Draft. I wish TJones didn\'t cost so much but he isn\'t horrible. I\'d like to see Jones and Mitchell as starters and pick up FAs in more pressing areas of need. CB being one of them. We need to resign Craft and try to get another decent starter. Move Thomas to dime (with paycut) and just cut Ambrose.

it just occured to me...Ambrose is still on the team?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Good thoughts, guys!!

But, just so I\'m clear, I\'m going to list the starting defense, as it stands NOW!!

Tell me who\'s a keeper, who gets cut, who should be moved, etc., etc..

I\'ll get it started.


Defense:
LDE 94 Grant, Charles - Starter
DT 95 Green, Howard - Need someone else.
DT 66 Young, Brian - I\'m gonna say starter but I have doubts.
RDE 93 Howard, Darren - Starter
SLB 50 Allen, James - Need someone else.
MLB 55 Watson, Courtney- Tough one. I\'m going to say need someone else.
WLB 57 Bockwoldt, Colby - Starter.
LCB 43 McKenzie, Mike - Starter
SS 20 Bellamy, Jay - Need someone else
FS 34 Jones, Tebucky - Starter
RCB 35 Brown, Fahkir - Starter

Note: I think Courtney Watson could start but I\'m for getting a standout player at the critical MLB postion. I would get someone and let Watson play in spot duty. I would not move him to WLB. I might would try him at SLB.

Howard Green needs to be a spot duty player also. Hopefully Sully will come around. If not, we need to get someone else.

James Allen: Need someone else. I just don\'t feel too comfortable with him.

Tebucky: I\'m for giving him one more shot and I can live with him if a stud is brought in to replace Bellamy.

Jay Bellamy should be used in only spot duty. He\'s not a starter in this league anymore.

There ya have it.....

I know that many or you are gonna disagree with some of my moves. I\'m interested to hear how you guys see it...

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

LDE 94 Grant, Charles - Starter
DT 95 Green, Howard - Need someone else.
DT 66 Young, Brian - Starter
RDE # Will Smith - Starter (Howard\'s gone)
SLB 50 Allen, James - Need someone else.
MLB 55 Watson, Courtney- Starter
WLB 57 Bockwoldt, Colby - Need someone else.
LCB 43 McKenzie, Mike - Starter
SS # Mel Mitchell - Starter (Bellamy backup)
FS 34 Jones, Tebucky - Starter
RCB 35 Brown, Fahkir - Need someone else

Brown may do if we must, but I\'d like to see someone just a bit better.

I can\'t believe you\'d say keep Buckwoldt as starter at WLB and replace Watson as MLB. Of the two I think Bwoldt has more to prove to be a starter than Watson.

James Allen - enough said.

Young wold be good at DT if we had somebody to pair with him at the other DT.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Adding a different perspective on this topic -- for years I have said our corners are the biggest weakness on our team -problem is that a few years ago we had such a fierce pass rush that our cornerbacks were never really challenged all of the time -- the year we went to the playoffs is a good example -- our defense has a great pass rush (led the league in sacks I think) but Minn torched us big time in the playoffs -Well - our corners this year are better than those days (McKenzie etc) -- Our line should be just as good at rushing the QB. Problem is that our linebackers are so poor that they cannot cover a strong pass rush either by covering the run or the short passes to beat the rush. I think we should concentrate on linebackers (yeah I know they stepped up in the last 4 games but a real experienced stud linebacker is still needed). Then get a top line safety -- with that in place let our pass rushers go -- safety blitz -- and I think our defense will be a whole lot better. And don\'t use the argument about giving up the big play -- we give up plenty of those now --

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

.

I simply saw Bockwaldt making plays all over the field. He even ran Mike Vick down from behind. I like this kid a lot. Of course, that\'s just my opinion.

As far as Watson? I really didn\'t see him do too much. He did okay at times. Most of the time, I didn\'t see him around the ball too much. I think we need a TRUE impact player at MLB.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I\'m not sold on Bockwoldt, but he did have almost as many solo tackles as Watson DESPITE starting fewer than half as many games.

This stat may be confounded only if Bockwoldt had a lot of special teams tackles, which I am not sure of. If that isn\'t the case, there is good reason to think that Bockwoldt can get the job done. Bockwoldt\'s \"playing size\" is a bit low for the SLB though.

Does anyone think that Watson could play SLB and then in the nickle and dime? Bockwoldt could play WLB and in the nickle. We\'d only need a stud MLB for running downs and base downs. Just a thought.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I was one of the guys crying for a CB last off season, but I think, as 4ss appears to, that we\'ve solidified that position. I do believe that CB is more important than your third LB, but a second CB is less important than the third LB. We are missing AT LEAST a third LB.

I think Brown can be more than solid. Also, with mixed zone coverages, you only need one CB to play man to man. Having MM gives our defense an awful lot more in terms of defensive options. I think that, along with the rumored coaching change, MM is the most significant defensive element to our December run.

We are looking a little thin at Safety, unless Mitchell has that year that he was supposed to have when we let Sammy go (a sad day). He had the speed, size, and aggressiveness to make things happen back there; it remains to be seen if he still has that, IMO.

I think whether or not we NEED a Safety depends A LOT on Mitchell. I think T-buck is fine, especially if he doesn\'t have to play so deep (now that Brown is developing and MM is here, that should be an option). Althogh, I\'d have to say I\'m thinking they may want to move T-buck\'s cap number - maybe he\'ll restructure? If he were cheaper, I don\'t have much problem with him.

Either way, we still need some depth in the secondary. That is, however, much less pressing than our need for an OT and an LB.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Let me also note this:

Playing in Rick Venuri\'s scheme hasn\'t allowed me to get a good feel of how good some of the youg guys are.

The only players who have shined on defense have been the defensive ends. That\'s not hard to do in ANY system as all they have to do is pin their ears back and rush the passer. Also, I think the defensive ends would have done better with a different defensive coordinator.

Mike McKenize looked awful before SOMEBODY switched the scheme to man-to-man. Then McKenzie started to shine.

I would not be surprised to see some of the guys that have underachieved to really shine if the defensive scheme is the same as the last 4 games.

Last thing:


4saintspirit-- I agree with that 100%... :D

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

McKenzie - very good CB, should be good in 2005.
Brown - good CB, should be even better in 2005. Reaching his prime.
Craft - decent, should be better in 2005 two years removed from ACL tear.
Thomas - aging fast, becoming injury prone. A shadow of former self
Ambrose - A shadow of his former shadow of former self.
Craver - Won\'t make final roster
The rest are street free agent fill ins

Jones - decent, but hugely overpaid
Bellamy - A decent SS. At worst an excellent back-up.
Mitchell - A promising kid who should be better in 2005 two years after ACL tear.
Gleason - Special teams stand-out who wouldn\'t start at FS/SS for any team in the league.

We need another young prospect at CB and S, and a quality starter at either SS or FS via free-agency.

www.myownfrickinopinion.com

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Danno, you really think that Bellamy, Mitchell, and T-buck aren\'t serviceable if we improve our LBs? I\'m honestly just asking.

I agree that we\'re going to need a CB or a Safety for depth. I also agree that a playmaker at Safety would be nice, but right now I\'m sort of of the view that that would be a luxury (wow, that sentence sucked).

It just seems to me that the defense would improve the quickest if we changed our MLB or SLB to a stud. After that, I am currently of the view that another LB is more of a priority than a Safety or Corner; but, I\'m open to argument here.

:roll:

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Wow == agreeing with and getting agreement from Gumbo and Jkool all in the same day -- I\'m playing the lottery tonight. Actually JKool I have to agree with you -- a solid linebacking core will make our DBs play better by allowing our CBs and safeties to actually play their own position -- and who knows they may be a lot better at it than we think -- Haz and Venturi constantly think we are fine at that position so its possible they have the skills. But its tough to cover someone when you are also supposed to be watching for the run. Not sure if I am making this up but I seem to remember a scary stat -- our cornerbacks and safeties made more tackles than the linebackers --

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I\'m not Danno, but you brought up an interesting point and I\'d like to respond.. ;)

When I look at NEEDS on defense, I look at it like this:

Which is the weakest area?

1. Stopping the run.
2. Stopping the pass.

I say it\'s stopping the run. I think LB is the biggest impact to addressing that situation.

Also, another one of our big weaknesses was our LBs inability to cover the middle of the field. And covering tightends.

There\'s no question in my mind that LB is the right choice.

Of note, we need another safety that is a difference maker, but we\'re not terribly weak back there. However, the Ravens\' Ed Reed has shown how much of an impact a great safety can make. Maybe he benefits from playing with Ray Lewis and that great front 7, though?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I\'d like to second Gumbos comment on the LB. As for covering tight ends just look what Gates did in that SD game. Enough said.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

With this number of us agreeing, I\'m starting to worry that we\'re wrong... ;)

I swear I saw some pigs flying earlier this morning. If you win, do we get a cut?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Seems like most agree that a stud linebacker is our biggest need with a stud safety being second. That is certainly my opinion

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

SFN, welcome aboard!

Billy we agree.

I was wondering what Danno thought, since he is a good roster guy. I thought he might have some insight on Mitchell\'s status/ability to take the starting job.

I really think we\'re passable at DB in general. We have solid outside rushers - the a complete package in the middle LB spot and a solid run-stuffer at DT, I think our secondary will be just fine.

Also, Ed Reed has had me rethinking my view of the Safety position.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

JKool -- if I win the lottery I will make sure you and Gumbo get a cut -- or at least invite you to attend the catered luxury box I intend to rent with some of the winnings. If you are from out of town I\'ll even fly you in.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

:D

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Well...he ins\'t impact. But he does a good job of getting to the ball (like S. Night used to do here), and he is the best LB we have in the position against the run. Lord knows the Saints need to do that more.

Did the talk of Will Smith being a possible LB dry up with Horward\'s likely departure?

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

Smith as a LB?? Never heard that but I like the Sounds of it already!

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

JKool you are correct, replacing Tebuckey and Bellamy are a bit down the list of defensive improvements. They are quite serviceable. But for the money we\'re paying Tebucky I think we can improve that position at no additional cost.
My list of priorities to make this defense better are as follows...
1. SLB-An A player. Not a jouneyman or a mid/late round pick. A stud free-agent or a 1st/2nd rounder
2. DT-He doesn\'t need to be an all out stud, just a solid 2-gapper to allow Young to shoot the gap.
3. WLB-Another A player. I like Bockwoldt, but he\'s a 7th round project who is only starting because everyone else sucks.
4. SS-Upgrading Bellamy is next. Mel may be the guy, but I wouldn\'t mind a fairly early pick to groom.
5. FS-I could live with T$E one more year, but not one nanosecond more.
6. CB-Youth and depth. Behind DE, our most talented unit.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

This is one of the most productive threads I\'ve read in a long time.

I think most are in agreement tha our primary need is at linebacker. I\'m in that boat. Let\'s hope Haslett is too!

I think most are in agreement that DT is the next area of need. I think?

Either DT or safety.

So, it\'s LB, DT, and safety and most will be satisfied?!

One of those positions intrigues me....

The interesting thing to me is Jonathan Sullivan. We know he\'s got the talent. IF IF IF IF IF, Sullivan wakes up what an added bonus that would be.

Then all we would need is a LB and a safety!

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I have been an advocate for drafting a Safety in the 1st round...and will continue to be so...

Our Lb\'s are young....the core of them..have less than 3 years exp in the NFL...that includes Grant..he has yet to play any substantial amount of time...and his injuries..could keep him gone for good possibly...or at least gone from here...

The point is...These young guys...the one\'s who came in and played well...Allen..Watson..Buckwoldt...I know Buckwoldt is a stretch to say he played well..but he did exceed expectations...

These guys need to just go out there and play...they will get better...and will likely do more good for this team ..than some rookie...really...I mean..they do have some exp in the NFL....even if only minimal..If we were to draft a rookie...the story would go something like this..\'\'Give him a year or two..and he\'ll be good\'\'..We have allready acquired 2 young..fast..and smart LB\'s..that now have the much needed 1st year out of the way...and you want to just let them ride the pine now?....

It\'s counter productive....you can\'t possibly expect them to improve sitting on the sides?...no...the focal point made clear by Jim..is the right choice...Safety...it needs to be addressed now..and needs to be given the consideration that the position demands...you really need a top notch safety..if your going to have a great defense..period...

Look at Harrison with the Pats..

Dawkins with the Eagles....and Lewis..for that matter..

John Lynch with Tampa...before he left..

Ed Reed ( Defensive MVP) for the Ravens..

Look how much the rams D improved by bringing in Archuleta...

All of the really good one\'s have a great safety...and always have...


The Safety position is of dire need right now...and we need a big timer in there..not some..\'\'project\'\' that a 3rd round pick or later usually entails...

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

you know it\'s not really about what round they get drafted in-you can find some studs late..but the thing that scares me is that hte saints will grab a second or third round talent in the first...ala sulivan.

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

I don\'t agree with that!

If it\'s one thing I can\'t fault the Saints for it\'s drafting \"busts\" in the 1st round of the draft.

1. Deuce McAllister.
2. Charles Grant.
3. Will Smith.

And how can you call Sullivan 3rd rate talent? Sullivan was forecasted to be drafted int the 1st round by every scouting service in the country. If the Saints wouldn\'t have taken Sullivan in the first round ... some other team would have...

Secondary Okay heading into next season?
 

That is partially true...talent is based on skills shown..and people are place accordingly..however...the sometimes unusual person may achieve greatness...when he really wasn\'t expected to do so..but..more times than not...the highest draft picks..play better...

I really like the top 2 safeties..and..IMO..we could\'nt go wrong with either...as a 1st round pick...It won\'t be Sully pt. 2...not by a long shot..

Like the rare occasion where a bottom tier pick makes good, you also have that rare occasion..where a top tier..doesn\'t..but..none in recent memory have dissapointed to the degree in which Sully has....He was a freak accident...one which we still feel the sting from...

We will get a 1st round safety..and our D will improve...