Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017?

WillSaints81 · 02-11-2016, 05:18 PM

In the past our offense was the first thing to be fixed before the defense. I just feel we might be trying too hard on defense and our offense is paying for it. I just feel the 2011 offense would win today like it did then. We wasted a opportunity this year with a easy schedule. Yeah guards need to be improved but I don't think its going to be enough for us to get back to being a top ranked passing offense that most defenses and opposing QBs worry about.

Danno · 02-11-2016, 05:46 PM

I'm not following.

We've tried to fix the defense every year. One draft was entirely defense wasn't it?

Barry from MS · 02-11-2016, 06:25 PM

We've whiffed in the draft & FA for a few years now, hence the sorry excuse for a defense now. If you recap the defensive draft since 2009, you'll see why we are the worst defense in the NFL and why we have so much dead money now in FA whiffs to make up for these bad drafts:

2009: 1st Rd Malcolm Jenkins/CB, 4th Rd Chip Vaugh/S & Stanley Arnoux/LB
2010: 1st Rd Patrick Robinson/CB, 4th Rd Al Woods/DT
2011: 1st Rd: Cameron Jorddan/DE, 3rd Rd Martez Wilson/LB & Johnny Patrick/CB, 7th Rd Nate Bussey/LB & Greg Romeus/DE
2012: 3rd Rd Akiem Hicks/DL, 5th Rd Corey White/CB
2013: 7th Rd Rufus Johnson/DE
2014: 2nd Rd Stanley Jean Baptiste/CB, 4th Rd Khairi Fortt/LB, 5th Rd Ronald Powell/LB

Ugly defensive drafts from 2009 to 2014 = bad defense now. Our Front 7 is one of (if not) the worst in the league. We did not invest in our Front 7 between '09-'14 until no earlier than the 3rd Rd in those 6 drafts except Cameron Jordan in the 1dst Rd in 2011. Hot garbage Front 7 = Hot Garbage defense.

Just my opinion...

ChrisXVI · 02-11-2016, 06:28 PM

2011:

#1 Offense
#1 Passing Yards/Game
#6 Rushing Yards/Game
#12 Defense

2015:

#2 Offense
#1 Passing Yards/Game
#24 Rushing Yards/Game
#31 Defense

There hasn't been much drop off in offense other than the run game.

burningmetal · 02-13-2016, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

2011:

#1 Offense
#1 Passing Yards/Game
#6 Rushing Yards/Game
#12 Defense

2015:

#2 Offense
#1 Passing Yards/Game
#24 Rushing Yards/Game
#31 Defense

There hasn't been much drop off in offense other than the run game.

Defense is the first priority, in my opinion, but as far as those stats go... Here's the only thing that matters.

2011 Offense - 34.2 PPG
2015 Offense - 25.5 PPG

Our offense is alright right now, but that's an enormous drop off. Pure stats discount a lot of factors, on their own merit, and do not provide any perspective. Sometimes the numbers match the performance, and sometimes they don't come close. I say it all the time, and if you ever needed an example there is none better than the above.

When you're just throwing it around, and desperately trying to keep up, you tend to pile up yards. But when you're predictable like that, your drives will often stall, leading to the huge discrepancy in points per game. Also, when you're ahead late in games, you want to run the clock out, whereas from behind you are often getting garbage yards.

There's no question that, aside from what we did against the Panthers in the dome, we haven't had an offense that can compete with top defenses like it used to.

blackangold · 02-13-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Defense is the first priority, in my opinion, but as far as those stats go... Here's the only thing that matters.

2011 Offense - 34.2 PPG
2015 Offense - 25.5 PPG

Our offense is alright right now, but that's an enormous drop off. Pure stats discount a lot of factors, on their own merit, and do not provide any perspective. Sometimes the numbers match the performance, and sometimes they don't come close. I say it all the time, and if you ever needed an example there is none better than the above.

When you're just throwing it around, and desperately trying to keep up, you tend to pile up yards. But when you're predictable like that, your drives will often stall, leading to the huge discrepancy in points per game. Also, when you're ahead late in games, you want to run the clock out, whereas from behind you are often getting garbage yards.

There's no question that, aside from what we did against the Panthers in the dome, we haven't had an offense that can compete with top defenses like it used to.

I have always been against point per game being the accurate measure of offense.

Score points is a team effort including defense and special teams. Better starting field position along with defensive and special team scoring plays a big factor in PPG.

The YPG measure can also be skewed, worse teams will have more garbage time yards, pick your poison I guess.

Danno · 02-13-2016, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

I have always been against point per game being the accurate measure of offense.

Score points is a team effort including defense and special teams. Better starting field position along with defensive and special team scoring plays a big factor in PPG.

The YPG measure can also be skewed, worse teams will have more garbage time yards, pick your poison I guess.

Agreed, thats why its difficult to analyze anything with a singular stat.

Great passing teams may have a high yard per rush because they run a lot of draws that can skew the YPC stat, and vice versa.

Bend but don't break defenses give up a lot of yards, but their PPG is low.
Attacking defenses may have low PPG but give up more big plays.

Unfortunately in our case we rank near dead last in every meaningful defensive stat.

44Champs · 02-12-2016, 09:51 PM

Either we're drafting the wrong players on defense, or the coaching staff failed in developing them. Maybe a little of both. But I feel very hopeful w the two young LBs and with Breaux. We still need a stud D lineman and a stud safety.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

hagan714 · 02-13-2016, 08:51 AM

no

enough is enough and we have only added to the chance our 30 million dollar man ends up injured.

dizzle88 · 02-13-2016, 09:06 AM

No more sacrificing the offense, Brees had to work with a scrap O line last season, it made him miss his first game since joining us.

02-11-2016, 06:25 PM	#3
Barry from MS Site Donor 2014 Join Date: May 2007 Location: TEMPO VC Okefenokee Swamp Posts: 1,985 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? We've whiffed in the draft & FA for a few years now, hence the sorry excuse for a defense now. If you recap the defensive draft since 2009, you'll see why we are the worst defense in the NFL and why we have so much dead money now in FA whiffs to make up for these bad drafts: 2009: 1st Rd Malcolm Jenkins/CB, 4th Rd Chip Vaugh/S & Stanley Arnoux/LB 2010: 1st Rd Patrick Robinson/CB, 4th Rd Al Woods/DT 2011: 1st Rd: Cameron Jorddan/DE, 3rd Rd Martez Wilson/LB & Johnny Patrick/CB, 7th Rd Nate Bussey/LB & Greg Romeus/DE 2012: 3rd Rd Akiem Hicks/DL, 5th Rd Corey White/CB 2013: 7th Rd Rufus Johnson/DE 2014: 2nd Rd Stanley Jean Baptiste/CB, 4th Rd Khairi Fortt/LB, 5th Rd Ronald Powell/LB Ugly defensive drafts from 2009 to 2014 = bad defense now. Our Front 7 is one of (if not) the worst in the league. We did not invest in our Front 7 between '09-'14 until no earlier than the 3rd Rd in those 6 drafts except Cameron Jordan in the 1dst Rd in 2011. Hot garbage Front 7 = Hot Garbage defense. Just my opinion... blackangold likes this.
	"I'd far rather be happy than right any day" ~ Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy "Honor: if you need it defined, you don't have it" ~ Ron Swanson

02-11-2016, 06:28 PM	#4
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? 2011: #1 Offense #1 Passing Yards/Game #6 Rushing Yards/Game #12 Defense 2015: #2 Offense #1 Passing Yards/Game #24 Rushing Yards/Game #31 Defense There hasn't been much drop off in offense other than the run game.

02-13-2016, 07:41 AM	#5
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? Originally Posted by ChrisXVI 2011: #1 Offense #1 Passing Yards/Game #6 Rushing Yards/Game #12 Defense 2015: #2 Offense #1 Passing Yards/Game #24 Rushing Yards/Game #31 Defense There hasn't been much drop off in offense other than the run game. Defense is the first priority, in my opinion, but as far as those stats go... Here's the only thing that matters. 2011 Offense - 34.2 PPG 2015 Offense - 25.5 PPG Our offense is alright right now, but that's an enormous drop off. Pure stats discount a lot of factors, on their own merit, and do not provide any perspective. Sometimes the numbers match the performance, and sometimes they don't come close. I say it all the time, and if you ever needed an example there is none better than the above. When you're just throwing it around, and desperately trying to keep up, you tend to pile up yards. But when you're predictable like that, your drives will often stall, leading to the huge discrepancy in points per game. Also, when you're ahead late in games, you want to run the clock out, whereas from behind you are often getting garbage yards. There's no question that, aside from what we did against the Panthers in the dome, we haven't had an offense that can compete with top defenses like it used to.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-13-2016, 11:45 AM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? Originally Posted by blackangold I have always been against point per game being the accurate measure of offense. Score points is a team effort including defense and special teams. Better starting field position along with defensive and special team scoring plays a big factor in PPG. The YPG measure can also be skewed, worse teams will have more garbage time yards, pick your poison I guess. Agreed, thats why its difficult to analyze anything with a singular stat. Great passing teams may have a high yard per rush because they run a lot of draws that can skew the YPC stat, and vice versa. Bend but don't break defenses give up a lot of yards, but their PPG is low. Attacking defenses may have low PPG but give up more big plays. Unfortunately in our case we rank near dead last in every meaningful defensive stat.

02-12-2016, 09:51 PM	#8
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? Either we're drafting the wrong players on defense, or the coaching staff failed in developing them. Maybe a little of both. But I feel very hopeful w the two young LBs and with Breaux. We still need a stud D lineman and a stud safety. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Rugby Saint II likes this.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

02-11-2016, 05:18 PM	#1
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? In the past our offense was the first thing to be fixed before the defense. I just feel we might be trying too hard on defense and our offense is paying for it. I just feel the 2011 offense would win today like it did then. We wasted a opportunity this year with a easy schedule. Yeah guards need to be improved but I don't think its going to be enough for us to get back to being a top ranked passing offense that most defenses and opposing QBs worry about.

02-11-2016, 05:46 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? I'm not following. We've tried to fix the defense every year. One draft was entirely defense wasn't it?

02-13-2016, 10:57 AM	#6
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? Originally Posted by burningmetal Defense is the first priority, in my opinion, but as far as those stats go... Here's the only thing that matters. 2011 Offense - 34.2 PPG 2015 Offense - 25.5 PPG Our offense is alright right now, but that's an enormous drop off. Pure stats discount a lot of factors, on their own merit, and do not provide any perspective. Sometimes the numbers match the performance, and sometimes they don't come close. I say it all the time, and if you ever needed an example there is none better than the above. When you're just throwing it around, and desperately trying to keep up, you tend to pile up yards. But when you're predictable like that, your drives will often stall, leading to the huge discrepancy in points per game. Also, when you're ahead late in games, you want to run the clock out, whereas from behind you are often getting garbage yards. There's no question that, aside from what we did against the Panthers in the dome, we haven't had an offense that can compete with top defenses like it used to. I have always been against point per game being the accurate measure of offense. Score points is a team effort including defense and special teams. Better starting field position along with defensive and special team scoring plays a big factor in PPG. The YPG measure can also be skewed, worse teams will have more garbage time yards, pick your poison I guess.

02-13-2016, 08:51 AM	#9
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? no enough is enough and we have only added to the chance our 30 million dollar man ends up injured.

02-13-2016, 09:06 AM	#10
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: Is our offense worth sacrificing to wait for 2017? No more sacrificing the offense, Brees had to work with a scrap O line last season, it made him miss his first game since joining us.

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