Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Saints save $4.8 million in cap space by converting Cam Jordan’s bonus
February 17, 2016 Joel A. Erickson

The New Orleans Saints have created $4.8 million more in cap space by converting Cam Jordan‘s $6 million roster bonus into a signing bonus, a source confirmed to The Advocate on Wednesday.

By converting Jordan’s bonus, the Saints spread the charge out over the five seasons of the contract, meaning there’s now a $1.2 million cap hit in each of the five years of the $60 million extension Jordan signed last summer.

http://image.nola.com/home/nola-medi...086-mmmain.jpg

New Orleans has made a habit of converting bonuses to create room under the cap, using the tactic

By spreading out the cap hit, Jordan’s contract should now carry cap figures of
$11.5 million in 2017,
$13.7 million in 2018,
$13.5 million in 2019
$11.1 million in 2020.

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Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I like it.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

So this gives us about $6.5 million in cap space without the Browner release or Brees extension I think. Making progress.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Brees and Byrd are next. Should get another 15 million out of that. With 18 million of the dead money freeing up next year we should have a bright future.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I kept saying the dead money talk meant nothing and we'd be fine.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Smart move.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I knew this was coming. Our members have been saying this was the smart move for some time now. This is where I get my information. I love BNG :bng:

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

... Cue the FailClowns melt down on their board!!! :rofl:

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Restructures just add future dead money potential which is how we got in this mess. Now with that being said, this actually is a really good restructure because it is a very small amount ( 1.2 mill I think) over 4 years. Just can't free up this money to blow it on another player that doesn't pan out and go through this crap again.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I hope and believe that the scouting, drafting and signing of Free agents will be better with Ireland and the new scouts onboard. If you combine that with Loomis genius about managing the cap we could have a really good thing going soon.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Count me in among those who still doubt him. What he's doing here is not a skill. He's dropping players who he over-paid in the first place, and often restructuring contracts that hurt us down the road. The Jordan thing makes sense, and is an easy move. An extension with Brees is about as obvious as it gets.

There are multiple reasons for this team's suckage in recent years, and Loomis' poor contracts and constant back-loading are among them. I've said that you can't afford to worry about dead money moving forward. Some people thought this team should hang onto Browner because of the dead money, but that makes zero sense. That being said, it still looks bad on Mickey's part that he's got that much wasted money floating around.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Byrd converted his 6 million of his roster bonus to bonus money in 2015.. Really don't see Loomis giving him anymore money adding to future dead money.. Needless to say Byrd is not worth the money he's received to this point regardless of the reason..

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Let's face it, Loomis lost his way during and after Bountygate. Remember, he was suspended too. I'm sure it was crushing to him and the organization.

2012 was a lost season. 2013 was too late to rekendle the fire from 2009. 2014 was a totally lost season.

2015 was the first season of massive purge and starting over. I like most of what happened last offseason, especially the draft. Browner was the only sketchy contract.

Byrd has been a post-Bountygate-poop-idiot decision since 2014 where Loomis paid the man and we got laughed at by Bills fans because Byrd could barely make an entire season.

I do think Loomis is back on track. How well we do in the draft this year will tell the story.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

If we extend Brees and re work Byrd, we might have 20 mil in cap space... I didn't think we would be in the market for big time FAs but now everything is at least in reach.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Yes.
This stuff isn't accidental. Loomis has had a few misteps, but you know that as soon as he signed Jordan's deal that this is what he had in mind

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

True, and while we still have some big time contracts to hand out to some of our own, I can't help but feel we're going after someone. A pass rush specialist perhaps? A stud OLB? An interior D-lineman?

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

So who does Buffalo have available that we could go after? LOL

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I wonder what the price tag would be on Mario Williams and Tamba Hali.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Thank you, Cam Jordan. Team player off the field. This wouldnt have been possibe without his cooperation.

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Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league.

Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case.

But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Are you serious? Cam Jordan didn't have anything to do with this. Loomis commonly structures contracts with roster bonuses that can be converted to signing bonuses to prorate the cap hit over future years. Jordan agreed to this when he signed the contract. It is solely the option of the team itself whether they want to take advantage of the clause. It is a unilateral decision made by the team alone. Jordan had nothing to do with it beyond agreeing to it far in advance and it is something ALL players will agree to since it costs them nothing.

It is surprising how little the fanbase and the media itself know about the financial side of the business.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

That "shoveling" is called cost accounting and every successful business uses the same means of guaranteeing cash flow. As I have pointed out numerous times, Loomis is an accountant and a very good one at that. He knows that the cap is continuously climbing and will continue to climb. It makes financial sense to defer expenses (player salary in this case) into periods with greater operating fund availability (cap room). This is basic accounting principle. Trust me. I too have a degree in accounting.

Too many writers believe the crap spouted by media members concerning things like "cap hell" when said writers have absolutely no concept of how things work.

Now I know you, and others around here that have also been confused by listening to all the nonsense, will not take any of this to heart either through your (expansively meant) stubborn refusal to learn or through the total inability to understand the concept. Sadly, there is nothing we can do to help in those cases.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

No. He is not "delaying the inevitable". The fact is that nothing of the sort IS inevitable. Once again, you are listening to the uninformed media and the equally uniformed mass of fellow fans. As for decision making, Loomis is not the one making the decisions. He is the one making the decisions financially possible and no one in the business is better at this absolute skill.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability.

Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge.

Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I'm not listening to uninformed media, or fans. I'm going by the numbers. The numbers always say we're brushing up against the cap, and that fact is supported by the fact that we consistently fail to fill huge holes, because there aren't enough funds to make a run at the top players on the market. It's that simple. I know you think you're the smartest person in the room, but if you think we know nothing because we aren't "behind the scenes", then you know nothing either. So maybe you should take your holier than thou mentality and join the media whom you revile so much.

I know all about the fact that the cap number changes from year to year, and ideally they would operate under that premise. But when we're getting out-bid and consequently outperformed, it shows that Loomis is NOT one of the best in the business. He got plain lucky to get Brees coming off a shoulder injury, and then this team got lucky on some low round picks. Those guys carried this team. They are mostly all gone now, and what do you see out on the field?

Your pompous assumption that writers who live from check to check can't balance a check book is just another strike against your credibility. You sound bitter and egotistical. You said writers, but I know you mean all of us (the little people). Well who are you? What are you doing here? If you think you are privy to so much that we somehow aren't, then why do you come here and argue with us? Why aren't you working in the NFL? Did it ever occur to you, that you're here for the same reason as everyone else... to give an opinion? You don't have to agree, pal, but if you are so maddened by it all that you think no one should even be allowed to speak on it then you shouldn't be opining, either.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

You just rendered the rest of the diatribe meaningless when you said "The numbers always say we're brushing up against the cap". You clearly didn't get the meaning of the reply.

Oh, and I was a part of that media for ten years. I have also been involved with the ownership and their explanations of financial decision making of a professional franchise. I also have vast experience with cost and management accounting.

Once again, speak all you want, but I simply feel it only fair to point out to others when it is total bull**** being shared.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

As for this comment, I have worked with and know quite a number of sports writers, photographers, cameramen, reporters and commentators and I would venture to bet that approaching 100% of them would agree with me on their bookkeeping abilities. It is an extremely demanding occupation and I respect the hell out of each and every one of the true professionals.

I can safely say that a far greater percentage of the "little people" have more of a well rounded understanding of finance than the average media person, but still has a far lower understanding than that of those with the professional training to deal in the field.

And, by the way, when I worked toward getting my degree in accounting there was the dream of pursuing a career in sports management. A wonderful wife and two awesome sons helped me move in a more sustainable direction.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

You clearly don't remember what your reply was, if you think I didn't get the point of it. You said he's responsible for making financial decisions (wow, who knew?). And you say that I'm listening to and reading people who are uninformed. My response was not hard to understand. I don't base my conclusions off of an opinion. I see the numbers. The cap numbers are made public. You're pretending that there's something I'm not seeing, but I look up and see a team that can't compete in the free agent market.

So if he's got it all figured out, why is it that this team just scrapes by? I know.... I don't understand what goes on behind the scenes, right? I'm arguing against what is, in my opinion, an inaccurate statement that Loomis has great cap "skills" and is "a genius", by showing that there is nothing going on but pushing back salaries so that we get under the cap each year. And according to you for the last couple of years, it was all going to work out in the long run. Yet here we are again, you and I, arguing about how and when this will work. Because we are watching this team try to get under the cap, but don't look anywhere near in position to do much in free agency.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

Yes, same old argument. But, it is not Loomis that is at fault. He is the "genius" that makes Payton's moves possible.

Hopefully, we can both agree, that free agency is not the answer be it long term or short. We need to draft more effectively. and once again, that is not on Loomis.

Back to the cap, with the $13M increase in next year's cap and contract manipulations worked into contracts by Loomis, the Saints will have plenty of space available to make major moves. But, if those moves orchestrated by others come up empty again, Loomis tends to get all the blame.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

You would venture to bet, huh? Did you ask them that, or are you just assuming still? Because if so, you're opinion is unreliable.

By the way, don't think I didn't notice your attempt to backtrack on your comment about balancing a checkbook. Telling me bookkeeping is a demanding job and that you respect the professionals.... You clearly said that they most likely have no idea how to balance a checkbook... You didn't say anything about bookkeeping for an entire business. It isn't very hard to keep track of your own records. But that was the implication of your post, that these people couldn't do it. That's your tactics.

I will say it YET AGAIN. It doesn't take a degree to see a mistake. I don't have to know the fineprint in a contract, when I see a guy who's making far more money then he should have been offered, and the team is paying the price for it. Let me explain to you how your argument really looks from the outside...

"That guy just shot that person for no reason".

"You don't know that it was for no reason. You don't know what happened between those two to lead to this".

"Ok... it doesn't really matter. He just shot him. That's murder either way".

"I've been shot at before, and this isn't murder".

"What? Yes, yes it is. It definitely is. How does the fact that you got shot give you the right to say what is or isn't murder, but I somehow don't know, even though I just saw it happen?"

"Nope. You don't know what you're talking about".

That's terrific that you have a wife and two sons. I have an awesome daughter, and had a wife. Most people in the NFL have families as well. That does not change my point. You're not in the NFL, so you know nothing more than us. But you want us to believe you do because you worked in the media. Yet we aren't supposed to listen to any media. Even though I'm not basing my opinion off of the media.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

You're telling me that he's the "genius" that makes Payton's moves possible, yet the moves are not making sense. That is my whole point. I'm not a fan of the personnel or financial decisions. I've been clear about both for a few years now.

You want me to praise him, but everything that goes wrong is someone else's fault. I don't believe for one second that he just signs off on whatever others tell him to do. If so, then he truly is useless. I don't believe that any GM operates with no say, whatsoever, in personnel decisions. But again, that is beside the point. If he's a genius he's got to be able to say "this doesn't make sense". It looks worse when a player sucks on the field, but the fact that you would spend 50 something million on a safety, or 40 million on a slightly above average receiver at the time, in Colston, shows a lack of vision.

It's called prioritizing. It's how other teams like the Patriots, Colts, Packers and Steelers are in the playoffs almost every year. They don't overreact and throw crap tons of money at players in less important positions. They don't let players get very old on them, before they start retooling. The Saints haven't been very good at that in recent years, and Loomis and Payton both deserve blame.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

No asking necessary, friend. The lack of financial acumen is a common part of discussion in the media field. Bragging upon who has married into the ability to handle the personal finances is a running joke. That said, reread that paragraph you wrote. It was very difficult to understand what you were trying to relay, but, yes, I very much respect the media professionals in their work ethic. It is extremely demanding. But, one of the main reasons I left the business was one of the things most have a problem handling. Get a story or picture out there regardless of impact as long as it means no lawsuit.

Oh, now this is REALLY going to piss you off. I have been shot and still have a massive scar and lead in the leg.

So Loomis supposedly overpaid for a player or two or three that he was instructed to sign with most likely not having final say on final amount. So he gets the blame because he made it possible on the books.

Yup. He sucks.

You are *****ing in a vacuum. Every team in the NFL have had countless bad deals. Many have made better personnel moves, although getting Brees was history making. And many have made FAR more horrendous moves (see Cleveland).

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

We are getting closer here. Payton deserves the majority of blame, but Loomis should have reigned him in in an ideal world. That may be on Benson. As I have said before, we don't know what is going on behind the scene. Let's both hope the moves in the personnel department makes this all past history. Ireland appears to have had an impact on our best draft in years. At least I hope so. It could have been blind assed luck. LOL.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

The analogy, and the point it represents, still stands. Even if you got shot. That doesn't anger me.

You're still defending him by saying he "most likely had no final say". You can't get on me for what I don't know, and turn around and tell me what you don't know. I find it impossible to believe that he does not have final say on financial terms, when that is his job. And if he doesn't, and he's just there to do Payton's bidding, then what exactly do we know about Loomis? If I am to believe he's not to blame, because it's not up to him, then how do I give him credit when something goes right?

And it's more than just a couple of players. I only mentioned a couple. Loomis was here before the Payton regime, as you know. I don't remember hearing any of this genius talk then. I can still remember him doing a radio show after a blowout loss to the colts, and instructing the host not to take any calls. So he's also a bit of a coward, but I don't want to get too far off track.

I agree that there have been worse teams with worse moves. I didn't compare us to Cleveland.

Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.
 

I don't follow basketball at all, but from those if you in the know I'd like to hear how Loomis has handled the Pelicans' finances?

I mean, if we would assume Payton has been pushing the personnel decisions with the Saints... then the absence of SP should show Loomis operating differently in the NBA.