I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

Personally given this FA class, he probably does not need to. I mean the things I'm hearing saints want don't seem to be that they are going after a big name.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

we have a long long list of FA in 2017 also so not a bad idea to lock a few up now

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I was going to say something about this yesterday. I keep waiting for this "extension/restructure" and it doesn't appear to be coming. And theres no whispers about it either.

Almost like it never was an issue. I hope Drew isn't asking for too much.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

If the extension does happen it doesn't look like it will be done to free up cap space to sign free agents. I'm expecting a very quiet day today for the Saints instead of big surprise FA signings.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

He will if he wants to stay off his ass this coming season...

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

It looks like it's time to review NFL contracts 101. Brees has no obligation to do anything.

Brees is heading into year 5 of a 6 year contract. Large NFL contracts are almost always loaded with guaranteed money early and large salaries late in the contract. The combination of the two constitutes the cap number for each year. Without double-checking I believe that Brees contract was $100 million/6 years with $60 million guaranteed. So the guaranteed money is a $10 million a year cap hit. And with the typical escalation of salary this 2nd to last year is a $20 million salary number.

Restructuring isn't usually about asking for new money. It's usually about converting that un-guaranteed remaining salary into some type of guaranteed bonus money. This often works for both the team and the player. The team gets cap relief by being able to spread out the dollars over multiple years while the player gets guaranteed money and usually gets it immediately.

But this only works if more time is on the table. This type of restructure is almost always an extension in time, which gives more space to spread out the guaranteed money.

It's an open question if either Brees or the Saints really want to extend the contract past 2017. Brees will be 40 by then and the Saints will be on the hook for any guaranteed dollars extended beyond 2017 even if Brees retires.

Brees is now the 3rd upcoming QB heading towards 40 as the longtime starter, along with Manning and Brady. I'm leaving Farve off this list because he bounced around a bit at the end. Denver and New England have handled this is different ways. Denver went with a pay as you go model paying Manning about $20 million a year with no bonus. So they were on the hook for the salary each year with no residual bonus dollars. Brady on the other hand took a flat pay cut in 2013. Dude is earning about $12million/year below his true worth. Tom Brady is the NFL's most Underpaid Player | The MMQB with Peter King outlines that restructure which seeming makes no sense.

The Saints are not going to get either of these models. In the end they really only have 3 options:

1. Extend the years for Brees which ups the guaranteed dollars and extends new money into years that likely Brees will not be here.

2. Stay the course and eat the rest of the current contract for 2016 and 2017. But that's going to be $30+ million cap hits each year.

3. Cut Brees before the 2016 season and strike out in a new rebuilding direction now. The cap hit over the next two years is $20 million instead of $60+ million. But of course the team no longer has their franchise QB.

Which is why all Brees needs to do this nothing, which ends up being scenario #2 above.

It's not a matter of Brees asking for too much. It's a matter of how much are the Saints willing to invest to move the scenario from #2 to #1? Also couple that with the fact that even at 40, some NFL team would be willing to pay Brees $22-$25 million a year for a three year contract with virtually all the dollars guaranteed. This means that the Saints not only have to contend with the current dollars on the table, but the $60-$75 million of future dollars from 2018-2020 too.

So this is going to take a while. The Saints have to figure out what they are willing to invest. Then Brees has to decide if it's enough to pull the trigger.

I'd like to point out that the contract system worked exactly the way it's supposed to. If the player isn't living up to a contract then you cut them halfway through. If they out perform it all the way to the back end, then the team has to either heavily incentivize restructuring, eat the heavy backload, or cut the player loose.

Brees is at worst the #3 QB in this league. So thinking that he's going to take a $30-$40 million pay cut, like Brady bizarrely did to help out the Saints is wishful thinking at best. Also I'd like to point out that Brees really has done two discount contracts with the Saints already. The original 6 year $60 million was a bargain, while the 6 year $100 million, even with the $60 million guaranteed money, is really a bargain in today's environment. So paying him $20 million this year really isn't too much a stretch. It's just that coupled with the $10 million cap hit from the guaranteed dollars that it seems out of whack.

SFIAH

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I see two options:
1. Stay the course and take the 30 million pay day. Especially if you are about done. The Saints are going to cut him or do anything stupid. Trade him?

2. He also has to look at the possibility of breaking Mannings records which he actually could do under Payton and the Saints. So what is it worth... taking care of his family and future Bree's generations or the records.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone said Brees was obligated to do anything. That's really not the point. The point is that if the Saints are to have ANY kind of room to improve through free agency, they will have to extend Drew's deal.

By the way, he's in the last of a five year deal, not six. I don't call 20 million a year a bargain. It is what it is... A guy taking advantage of market value. I don't say that to be critical, it's just a fact. Drew has been more than fairly compensated.

Also, I'm pretty certain everyone is aware of how guaranteed money works, and how we arrived at this point of Drew being owed 30 million for this season. It has been discussed ad nauseam, and is in no way confusing. It does not seem out of whack. It IS out of whack. He's not going to take a pay cut by extending, it will simply be spread out. It's pushing back the problem, in effect, but there's not much else that can be done now, from the Saints' perspective.

It comes down to whether or not Drew wants to play here, and if so, is he willing to work with the team to enhance his chances at another Super Bowl. No one knows what his thoughts are on that. But it's universally understood that taking a 30 million dollar cap hit is not very reasonable for the team.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I don't care about a lesser cap hit. I want to see him extended so we know he'll be a Saint for the rest of his career.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

If Drew stays here and continues to break records in a Sean Payton offense he will go down in history with only a few select other players. Does he want the money or the records?

Drew is most recognizable in a New Orleans Saints jersey. Also, those endorsement contracts pay pretty well too. :bng:

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

Well, I'm going to speak a little blaspheme...

F*** Brees and his agent...

Saints took a risk and offered and signed him to the largest guaranteed money he could find when only Miami showed interests with little guaranteed money...

We've seen several times when teams pay the quarterback the big MO after a championship, the money is not there to sign the essential supporting players...

One guy, Tom Brady, has stepped up and done it right - So pardon me if I don't get weak at the knees for Brees...

See a lot of parallels between Walsh/49ers and Payton/Saints - and I can see the mistakes we've made...

Walsh knew, and wisely made the move for Young; he realized it was his system and not Montana that really made it happen...

Brees has benefited more from Payton's system than it's gone the other way...

It's Payton's offense that's the real charm and it's time to ride out the Condon contract and move on next season...

It's not all on Brees as Loomis should have been more of a GM than an errand boy with respect to the other signings...

But you know, he could've stepped up and done what Brady did the way he could've stepped up into a well-paid pocket...

Our best hope is Jeff Ireland can kiss the Blarney stone and pull some shamrocks outta his arse and set the table for the draft...

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

Brady didn't take a pay cut. He ends up making more money over time he extended for. So, before you go getting "weak in the knee's" over him, do a little homework.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

You just proved you are either full of **** or simply do not have a clue. Brady stepped up by extending his contract guaranteeing all of his original contract plus. This was praised by the dumbass media as being all for the team, but it gave him more immediate cash in his pocket and guaranteed more in the future.

Brees is now at the exact point in his career as was Brady. He will do exactly the same IF the team feels it is necessary. It is completely to Brees' favor to agree to that sort of deal (which he has reportedly already agreed to doing) and it is also to the team's advantage to make the deal, which they will in my opinion. He will restructure guaranteeing all of his current contract plus additional guaranteed monies lowering the next few year's cap hits.

My question is what is with the Brees hate here? Seriously. We have enjoyed the better part of one of the greatest QB's career in all of NFL history. He has been nothing but class on and off the field.

Blasphemy? No. In my eyes MUCH worse than that.

x(

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

A deal will get done.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

This wouldn't be half the issue it is if we wasn't paying all this dead money.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

He will have to if we want to dramatically improve our defense and Brees knows it. Remember who gave Brees a chance when no one else would. I don't think he will **** on that now!

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I'll take a crack at this one. This hate comes from NFL players such as Brees looking at the game from the player's perspective, which is their career, as opposed to a fan perspective.

A fan belives in championships at any or all costs and that everything should be about the team winning a championship. Also they believe because of the unbeliveable amount of money that money shouldn't factor in that belief.

So anyone who isn't willing to take a hometown discount is against the team winning a championship.

Brady didn't help because he did take a discount of a sort. While I understand that he did guarantee his money for 2013-2015, the now $27 million for the 3 extension years to 2018 represent a significant discount to market rate. Even if the Patriots are not willing to pay him the $60+ million value for his services over those three years, there are teams in the NFL that are.

So if Brees doesn't do the same, then he is somehow branded a traitor to the Saints.

Maybe if Brittany Brees made $40+ million a year like Gisele does, then maybe Drew would consider it. But Brady's situation is unique, so comparing anything else to it is a false equivalence.

It's just being nonsensical. For any of us, if our job asked us to take a 50% paycut "for the team..." when the market is offering a 12% increase, we'd give them a quizzical "WTF" look.

Yet for sports fans, that's exactly what we expect from our atheletes.

SFIAH

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

Brees should get all he can. Listen, I said the same thing - was in favor of Aaron Brooks holding out for more money. Was in favor of Jake Delhomme getting his big payday. And I think Drew should do the same.

Negotiations like this are like politics. It can get nasty. That's the game.

Kid's aren't going hungry because of Drew's business acumen. He's been ethical in that regard from day 1.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

Agreed. Anyone who looks negatively at an athlete not wanting to maximize his earning potential in a very short window of opportunity clearly does not understand reality. Teams will cut and step on contracts all the time. There is no way a person will take a pay cut at all for the good of the fans or team. They will re-negotiate deals to make them more cap friendly but make no mistake, no player ever willingly gives back a dollar nor should they. Brady never lost one cent in his contract re-writes. He did what Brees needs to do here and that's get his same money or more up front and make the contract extend to lower the immediate cap to help the team sign other players.

Re: I'm not sure Brees is gonna restructure
 

I'm not exactly sure that's the issue here. Brees did get paid in 2012.

This is all about the prevailing thought that Brees is obligated to restructure for the good of the team.

Brees has good reason to restructure, as it guarantees currently unguaranteed money. However, there is the issue of new money and extended years.
Agreed. Also I still don't think it's just as cut and dried for the Saints either. Every extra year of an extension is a potential pitfall if Brees decides to retire at 40 or 41 as this will accelerate the previously paid guaranteed money directly into the current cap year.

Manning and Denver didn't have that problem because basically the Broncos were paying Manning cash money with no bonus each year. So the residual dead money is virtually nonexistent.

In the end I think everyone is on the same page. That being having Drew retire a Saint, and the team getting a shot at another championship without overmortgaging the future to do it.

Tough sledding.

SFIAH