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-   -   The Advocate: The knives are out (https://blackandgold.com/saints/78251-knives-out.html)

hagan714 06-05-2016 09:01 AM

The knives are out
 
The knives are out


By Mike Detillier
NFL Analyst

When anyone in the media mentioned any “turbulence” between New Orleans Saints head coach Sean Payton and former defensive coordinator Rob Ryan in recent years, many people outside the football loop considered it “sensationalized reporting.”

It's funny those same folks today are backing Payton when Ryan lashed out at the Saints organization last week and saying it is sour grapes on the part of the former defensive coordiator.

I have always felt the problem between Payton and Ryan was not about defensive philosophy but personnel moves, and Payton -- the architect of a top-5 offense -- was staring at one of the worst defenses in the league the past two seasons.

Ryan pointed out Payton's different defensive outlook after the 2013 season in which the Saints defense finished fourth in the league in defensive yardage after giving up the most yards in NFL history in 2012 under former defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.

Many say the Saints defense was too complicated the past few years. But why was the defense not so complicated in 2013?

Somewhere between the war of words is the truth.

There is no debating the decision to bring in Buffalo Bills free safety Jarius Byrd and making him at that time the highest paid safety in NFL history was Payton's decision.


Payton has long considered Byrd as a signature player in the NFL as he was with the Bills, but injuries (back and knee) and his play last season looked like a disinterested football player.

In making that decision, the Saints let Malcolm Jenkins leave via free agency to the Philadelphia Eagles, and the former Ohio State All-American has developed into a Pro Bowl performer.

The knives are out | HoumaToday.com

Money was the main issue regarding strong safety Roman Harper. He was a Saints defense leader and a force in run support but was and still is today a liability in the coverage part of the game.Vaccaro is better closer to the line of scrimmage and in run support. Last season, he recorded 104 tackles and had a career-high three quarterback sacks.

When the Saints selected Kenny Vaccaro from Texas in the first round of the 2013 draft, he was picked to be the heir-apparent to Harper at strong safety. Both Payton and Ryan praised Vaccaro's coverage skills, but in many ways, Vaccaro is a more athletic version of Harper and a slightly better coverage safety.

But Ryan had a major say in the drafting of Vaccaro, and it was not just Payton's decision.
......

Ryan had a major say in

Bailey, Butler, Atkins, Coleman and Leonhard never played a regular-season down with the Saints.

.......

Ryan who really wanted the developmental cornerback.Stanley Jean Baptiste

''''''''''

The one trait Ryan inherited from his dad Buddy Ryan -- who should be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame for what he did with the Chicago Bears (the 46 pressure defense) as the defensive coordinator in the 1980s -- was that he will never take the blame for the negatives out on the field.

..........

As I have stated before coaches have a huge say in getting players to fit there system.

spkb25 06-05-2016 10:06 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Thought it was a fair and good read...

The Dude 06-05-2016 10:26 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Great read. If Payton wanted to run a certain scheme then Ryan should have pushed players that would have fit that scheme.

44Champs 06-05-2016 11:04 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Theu should've ironed all that out before Ryan was hired

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halloween 65 06-05-2016 11:05 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
I would have liked to see a 3-4 run over a forced 4-3.

halloween 65 06-05-2016 11:06 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Champs (Post 705773)
Theu should've ironed all that out before Ryan was hired

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more.

jnormand 06-05-2016 11:35 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Well....Ryan is gone. Regardless of fault. I just hope DA can do something that makes this defense at least mediocre.

ScottF 06-05-2016 12:37 PM

Re: The knives are out
 
agree that it's a good read except for the lead-in:
When anyone in the media mentioned any “turbulence” between New Orleans Saints head coach Sean Payton and former defensive coordinator Rob Ryan in recent years, many people outside the football loop considered it “sensationalized reporting.”
who thought this? These two were screaming at each other week after week

CheramieIII 06-05-2016 01:27 PM

Re: The knives are out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Champs (Post 705773)
Theu should've ironed all that out before Ryan was hired

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Yes and if Ryan didn't ask if he would have control then that was his issue. Coach is always Coach.

SmashMouth 06-05-2016 03:12 PM

Re: The knives are out
 
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m...igawatts-o.gif

RailBoss 06-05-2016 11:11 PM

Re: The knives are out
 
Sean Payton Lets Rob Ryan Know What's What

hagan714 06-06-2016 04:00 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
All in all a pretty fair assessment of the team but I do not believe he went far enough back in the DC history to make a point. Greg Williams is were he should have started not Spags. Greg, who as we all know just did not click with Sean on a personal level.

Greg is like the woman your family loves to death but absolutely drives you absolutely crazy

Spags came in to install a defense that was a complete opposite to the one Williams was running. Square peg round hole.

Spags was the rebound girl. Total opposite to what you just had.

When SP returns to the feild he see the issue and goes after a DC that is much like him. A wiz kid. Only problem he picked Rob.

I believe SP had enough of Rob and saw the long history of player complaints were justified. He maybe a wiz kid but he is incapable of function as a DC to get the job done. He can not handle the job.

Rob was the Vegas call girl you put on your arm to impress at a convention. Only later you find out she was handing cards out the whole time making you the laughing stock.


Enter in DA how is all of sudden available on the open market after his short ten year as head coach of the Raiders, A coaching and personnel job I think he got a bit short changed on. The all or nothing FA year was his death march. But if you look at the rest of the talent he was able to add I say he did a pretty solid job making the raiders who they are today.

Allen is the best friend of the girl that drove you crazy that you always liked better.

I also am in the belief in DA Sean see the next best thing to bring Greg Williams back.

CheramieIII 06-06-2016 06:03 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 705878)
All in all a pretty fair assessment of the team but I do not believe he went far enough back in the DC history to make a point. Greg Williams is were he should have started not Spags. Greg, who as we all know just did not click with Sean on a personal level.

Greg is like the woman your family loves to death but absolutely drives you absolutely crazy

Spags came in to install a defense that was a complete opposite to the one Williams was running. Square peg round hole.

Spags was the rebound girl. Total opposite to what you just had.

When SP returns to the feild he see the issue and goes after a DC that is much like him. A wiz kid. Only problem he picked Rob.

I believe SP had enough of Rob and saw the long history of player complaints were justified. He maybe a wiz kid but he is incapable of function as a DC to get the job done. He can not handle the job.

Rob was the Vegas call girl you put on your arm to impress at a convention. Only later you find out she was handing cards out the whole time making you the laughing stock.


Enter in DA how is all of sudden available on the open market after his short ten year as head coach of the Raiders, A coaching and personnel job I think he got a bit short changed on. The all or nothing FA year was his death march. But if you look at the rest of the talent he was able to add I say he did a pretty solid job making the raiders who they are today.

Allen is the best friend of the girl that drove you crazy that you always liked better.

I also am in the belief in DA Sean see the next best thing to bring Greg Williams back.

and there you have it!

Utah_Saint 06-06-2016 08:58 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 705878)
All in all a pretty fair assessment of the team but I do not believe he went far enough back in the DC history to make a point. Greg Williams is were he should have started not Spags. Greg, who as we all know just did not click with Sean on a personal level.

Greg is like the woman your family loves to death but absolutely drives you absolutely crazy

Spags came in to install a defense that was a complete opposite to the one Williams was running. Square peg round hole.

Spags was the rebound girl. Total opposite to what you just had.

When SP returns to the feild he see the issue and goes after a DC that is much like him. A wiz kid. Only problem he picked Rob.

I believe SP had enough of Rob and saw the long history of player complaints were justified. He maybe a wiz kid but he is incapable of function as a DC to get the job done. He can not handle the job.

Rob was the Vegas call girl you put on your arm to impress at a convention. Only later you find out she was handing cards out the whole time making you the laughing stock.


Enter in DA how is all of sudden available on the open market after his short ten year as head coach of the Raiders, A coaching and personnel job I think he got a bit short changed on. The all or nothing FA year was his death march. But if you look at the rest of the talent he was able to add I say he did a pretty solid job making the raiders who they are today.

Allen is the best friend of the girl that drove you crazy that you always liked better.

I also am in the belief in DA Sean see the next best thing to bring Greg Williams back.

Women trouble hagen?

Rugby Saint II 06-06-2016 09:52 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
I'll cut you Mother ******!!!

jeanpierre 06-06-2016 09:57 AM

Re: The knives are out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 705878)
All in all a pretty fair assessment of the team but I do not believe he went far enough back in the DC history to make a point. Greg Williams is were he should have started not Spags. Greg, who as we all know just did not click with Sean on a personal level.

Greg is like the woman your family loves to death but absolutely drives you absolutely crazy

Spags came in to install a defense that was a complete opposite to the one Williams was running. Square peg round hole.

Spags was the rebound girl. Total opposite to what you just had.

When SP returns to the feild he see the issue and goes after a DC that is much like him. A wiz kid. Only problem he picked Rob.

I believe SP had enough of Rob and saw the long history of player complaints were justified. He maybe a wiz kid but he is incapable of function as a DC to get the job done. He can not handle the job.

Rob was the Vegas call girl you put on your arm to impress at a convention. Only later you find out she was handing cards out the whole time making you the laughing stock.


Enter in DA how is all of sudden available on the open market after his short ten year as head coach of the Raiders, A coaching and personnel job I think he got a bit short changed on. The all or nothing FA year was his death march. But if you look at the rest of the talent he was able to add I say he did a pretty solid job making the raiders who they are today.

Allen is the best friend of the girl that drove you crazy that you always liked better.

I also am in the belief in DA Sean see the next best thing to bring Greg Williams back.

That is some funny sh*t right there...


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